Yes, but if you read most of the comments, they think that it is a protection for THEM. I guess we shouldn't educate them, since it will protect us.

Carol, this a long thread to read. In brief, why we are wearing masks....

You cannot INHALE another persons EXHALE when you both are wearing masks.

A carrier of this virus does not know they are a carrier. Social distancing is not working. You can hold your breath as I have done in the past around someone appearing sick...but if that person is wearing a mask they are keeping their cough in their mask. And with you wearing a mask, you are doubling up the protection, from a distance.

I'm in NY. Everyone is wearing a mask here. Deliveries are dropping 10-15 feet from doors, wearing masks. And do not open your doors. Our health care HEROS are stressed.

We can all do our part to help slow this down.

You cannot buy a mask if you want one.

I made one from the above instructions using a man's white handkerchief. It was very easy to do and was quite thick and not so beautiful, but fully functional.

I thought the second kind more beautiful. I simply wrapped a long scarf over my head and then around my lower face. ;-) I don't think I have that technique down right yet, but I'll work on it.

Thank you Kate. Be an example, be proactive. Set an example. We are not freaks that wear ANY protective masks. The uninformed, not wearing masks, are 5% here. Just make sure what you wear can be set into a soap bath, then into the washer on high heat 'sanitary' mode. : )

I'm 22 days home now(?) DH will be 14 tomorrow. If we get sick it is from packages last week. (and carefully sanitized) Salmon from Alaska yesterday but we have been proactive in spraying the boxes and very carefully unboxing. OCD on steroids is me.

Finally,

Coronavirus Live Updates: Trump Administration Expected to Recommend Wearing Cloth Masks

Article link, HERE

if that does not get attention...

Just another of my suggestions. Many women in this area have decorative scarfs that have fallen out of fashion. Rather than tying them so that they drape across the bodice use them as people in Arabic countries do and drape them across the nose and mouth. Not everyone kept them along with the wide scarfs that were popular but look in the back of your closets and drawers before you go out and buy cloth.

maifleur03, NO stores are open here. Learn from NY and pay attention.

sleeveendog where did I state anything about stores being open however I passed a JoAnne fabric yesterday that was open. There are several sources of fabric like wally world that do have fabric. People could tear clothing apart to use. Too bad you think of only commercial sources.

I just ordered cloth masks from Amazon, because I can't sew very well. Nice selection of fabrics so I got 3 different ones, a pink design, a blue floral and a black and white with a hummingbird.

you said, "look in the back of your closets and drawers before you go out and buy cloth." We can't buy cloth anywhere. NO stores are open. I'm just asking that those of you that have stores open to pay attention to those of us a few weeks ahead of you to pay attention to what we in NY are going through.

Not sure at all where you live.

No, I personally do not need to buy any fabric. As you said, I have plenty in my closet.

No intention at all to insult anyone. Just SO many are clinging onto the first recommendation that no masks are needed. Watch the news tonight. Masks of any kind will soon be mandatory, so gets used to it.

"Medical professionals, epidemiologists and concerned citizens across the country need to tell their mayors, governors and congressional representatives that wearing masks or face coverings should be government policy now.!!!"

A mandate may not be entirely effective because 1) people do not like to be told what to do and 2) it will seem like a chore. Think about the spring breakers flouting the guidelines.
Maybe make those masks a fashion statement, hold a contest with a prize, and every one will be making them and wearing them.
Everyone wins. More protection, more fun, and those ladies with sewing machines will be worshipped for the queens we all know they are!

Masks won't slow anything down unless they are used properly. I don't even see people who wearing gloves using those properly. I see people wearing masks that aren't worn properly everywhere. I see people pushing their masks out of the way for one reason or another and then pushing them back. This idea that it should be mandatory for all to wear masks is not rational thinking. People need to stop using the internet to push their own anxieties onto others. There are enough real worrisome facts and enough real good advice on howto avoid the virus that is based on facts not fear mongering or feel good solutions. But carry on.

Properly worn masks are able to prevent the transmission of some disease. An improperly worn one can make the wearer more apt to become ill.

Just like everyone who pushed reusable bags. Thank goodness many areas are starting to disallow their use during this time. Hopefully the lesson will stick and that nonsense will end. Hopefully the lessons of clean practices in stores in general will stick. Maybe things will get wiped down more often. Maybe carts will be cleaned more often. maybe everyone will continue to wash their hands more often. There are a lot of positive things to be learned from this pandemic but how to sew masks is not one of them or wearing them for a sense of false security is not one of the them. China is been a culture of mask wearing people for a long time before this due to pollution and overcrowding. That didn't save them from this virus now did it?

Unintentional consequences occur when people run with emotions over reality and common sense, refusing to think things through including negative outcomes.

If you feel better wearing a mask go ahead. But no they will not be mandated if real science has it way.

Wearing masks properly is a challenge as is getting more on board in the face of new data showing more transmission by those infected but who do not display symptoms. Should we just throw our hands in the air at the prospect of a challenge instead of thinking about ways to make it work, imperfect though the attempts may be?

But no they will not be mandated if real science has it way.

Dr. Fauci is contemplating a recommendation to widen the use of face masks by the public, a statement is expected shortly.

Masks cover your nose and mouth, but eyes are still exposed. So far I've not heard anyone address how to protect eyes...other than not touching them.

"chloebud

Masks cover your nose and mouth, but eyes are still exposed. So far I've not heard anyone address how to protect eyes...other than not touching them."

Lets say there are some viruses in the air, chances for the viruses happen to bum into your eyes is no way as severe as the fact that you are breathing in and out large volumes of air into your lungs where most of the damages occurs. Face mask is effective, but eye protection is good to have too,

dcarch

Dr. Fauci is contemplating a recommendation to widen the use of face masks by the public, a statement is expected shortly.

Yes he probably will. You have to do something to make the masses feel "safer". It's what people want and it's what they will get. Regardless of the consequences. But hey this forum loves nannystateism so it's no surprise I am going to be in the minority.

One intervention at a time in the name of safety. How convenient this virus has been. So timely.

But hey this forum loves nannystateism so it's no surprise I am going to be in the minority.

This forum is made up of different people, all are individuals with their own opinions. It seems lately like you have almost a need to be different so you can rail against people. But they, like you, are doing their best during a difficult time, and I hope you find some peace.

Eye infections and stomach are not nearly as widespread as lung. I realize most just read headlines. This is titled 'the growing debate over masks'. Eye protection is a good idea. And still on topic. And has been discussed. Link, HERE

Like I've said, this is a long thread. Many just drop in with flighty opinions. Wild child is not wearing a mask. Going about business, possibly a carrier, possibly infecting others. I find that irresponsible. So much is not known so stay home.

The list of safe practices includes hand washing, avoid touching mouth, nose, eyes...then cover mouth with hand or tissue when sneezing. Hmm. Hand. If you are a carrier what good will that do when you then touch things around you. Try covering you mouth with your hand quickly when sneezing and not touching your face.

How about attaching the tissue to your face. Like 4-6 layers of fabric. What an idea! Containing your sneeze without blowing it in and all around your hand and into the air. Remove it, drop in soapy water, wash hands, then into the next wash load. Or remove it in your car and into a bag, sanitize hand.

Use these for paint stripping with MEK etc.

Donated two to local houseless health clinic.

NYTimes posted a donation link. They will pick-up tomorrow. We are holding onto a few N95's and my full face for now. Just incase we end up being a caregiver for each other or need transport via, (ick)....to protect the emergency crew.

The only thing 100% right now...I can't get hit by a car. They would have to navigate all the trees in my yard.

this is ludicrous,

of course the masks work.

there was a short supply of them in the beginning, and officials wanted to make sure there were enough for health care professionals who would be on the front line.

it was intentionally misinterpreted by the MSM.

it was read/translated the wrong way by a quite a few stupid press people in the MSM... and it fanned the flames.

of course you should use a mask.

I ran a story early, early on in my local paper, including a simple pattern - recommended by a h o s p i t a l - how you could make your own at home and donate them to nursing homes, grocery stores etc, or use them under a non N95 when out and about for essentials.

so many of the reporters out there are young and stupid and biased beyond belief and unable to think outside of the box. IMLTHO

There was an announcement on the radio here this morning saying that masks will soon be available for everyone and that we can wear them for security reasons and psychological reasons which is another valid reason. If people feel safer when they have to go out it helps. Confinement here isn't an option.

We're hearing horrendous statistics coming from the US now so please stay in and stay safe.

I've not been in a grocery in 2 months. Social distancing is impossible since the distance at check-out is way less than 6 ft with the employee.

This article discusses viral dose, link HERE

..."Because dose matters, medical personnel face an extreme risk, since they deal with the sickest, highest-viral-load patients. We must prioritize protective gear for them.

For everyone else, the importance of social distancing, mask-wearing and good hygiene is only greater, since these practices not only decrease infectious spread but also tend to decrease dose and thus the lethalness of infections that do occur. While preventing viral spread is a societal good, avoiding high-dose infections is a personal imperative, even for young healthy people."...

This video explains the importance of wearing a mask when out. Especially if you have a family member that needs convincing.

Link, HERE

A very good video. Thanks!

I want to add that, in fact, in many situations, air borne virus can travel incredible distance.

Let's say you are working in your office and everyone has left and no one is there except you. Can you take off your face mask?

No. Don't.

The HVAC system in an office building recirculates a good part of "used air". If someone is sick and coughs on a few floors below. Contaminated air can very quickly get to you in minutes.

dcarch

dcarch, do you need to go out? Did you see my Baldor post? Link, HERE

Their time slots are still available. I set one up for next Friday and you can shop up until the night before. They do offer small amounts like 2 avocados, 1 dozen eggs, etc. Once I figured out their system it is a breeze to order. Much better than freshDirect that is so backed up we can't get a delivery date. The prices are insanely low. I was careful getting dry pantry staples we will use and cheese/fridge items that have long use-by dates. Thrilled I have 5 pounds of ginger that I juiced some, froze some, and have 8 knobs to plant. So fresh. Much better than the grocery.

If you are outside your home and there are no people anywhere nearby, do you still need to be wearing a mask?

And I came across an even better tutorial for the no-sew handkerchief mask, she has a variation for smaller handkerchiefs and advises about how to properly remove it after use:

The only thing I take issue with is reusing elastic from a discarded mask. That does not seem wise.

And I was wondering anyone else has seen these funny videos from FireDepartmentChronicles' YouTube channel. I like how they get the message across with so much humor:

My attention span on information is just like anyones. But learn from those of us a few weeks ahead of you in smaller communities. One case turns into 100, then 500 in a very short time, 24 hours, if not practicing distancing and mask wearing.

We are in NY. dcarch, my family, co-workers, friends. Learn from our mistakes. Not us but our CDC, WHO, muzzled, dragging feet over what other countries have been doing.

dcarch posted an article about the choir that was very telling with many questions. (my post thanking him is not here, but I thanked him) I must have left the page before posting hence deleted.

"In 1977, an Alaska Airlines flight returned to Homer, Alaska, after experiencing engine trouble and sat on the tarmac there for four hours with the ventilation system off.

Of the 49 passengers on board, 35 developed flu symptoms and five were hospitalized. Researchers ultimately traced the outbreak to a woman who felt fine when she boarded but later became ill.

The case jolted epidemiologists into the realization that influenza could spread through the air.

Research has already shown that the coronavirus is nearly twice as contagious as influenza and far more deadly.

There is still much to learn about the choir outbreak, starting with the original source of the virus."

NBC ran an article where someone tested fabrics for mask making:

The best masks were constructed of two layers of heavyweight "quilters cotton" with a thread count of at least 180, and had thicker and tighter weave.

Lesser quality fabrics also worked well, as long as they had an internal layer of flannel.

"You do want to use a woven fabric, like batik," Segal said, "but you don't want to use a knit fabric, because the holes between the knit stitches are bigger."

In other words, if the fabric allows for a substantial amount of light to shine through, it's probably going to allow tiny viral particles through, as well.

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/making-your-own-face-mask-some-fabrics-work-better-others-n1175966?cid=eml_nbn_20200404

I went grocery shopping today, for the first time in a month or more. We went to the restaurant place (Smart Grocery Outlet) as it’s usually less crowded, faster to get through, and cheaper than a regular grocery store. SWMBO has been shopping there by preference anyway.

Wow, practically every customer was wearing a mask. I’d say well over 90%. There were outdoor sports masks, bandannas, cute home sewn masks, surgical masks, N95 masks. Some were wearing gloves too.

After bringing the groceries home and spraying them with sanitizer, I went out to run errands - post office, bike shop. There were a fair number of people out - walking, cycling, driving. Definitely not all at 6 feet distance from each others. Of the people outdoors, looked like about a fifth were wearing masks.

@ Annie - I think 'batik' might mean 'batiste'...?

And I would think even batiste might be too thin?

ETA: I just sent an email to the writer of that article pointing out the typo. Hope it gets corrected...

I went into a small, natural foods grocery a couple of weeks ago and they had mandated their employees wear masks. The young woman who checked me out had a paper surgical type mask on, but had it on upside down! I pointed out the metal strip that goes above the nose and told her how to squeeze it so it fit more tightly. It seems the store owner might have given directions on how to wear one, if they are providing them.

No carol I believe he meant batik...some are used to make bandanas and such and the are also used in quilting. A batiste would be too thin, I think.

How about an instant disposable-no-sew-1-minute face mask?

It works for me. It seems coffee filter is better than fabric, but I don't know.

dcarch

dcarch, interesting since I was just thinking about coffee filters today. I wondered if they would be useful as some kind of filter inside a cloth mask...?

I mentioned in another thread that “T”, the young woman who was living with us, moved out so that she could continue seeing her new boyfriend. The boy, “N”, is a very nice - and astonishingly handsome - young man from Spain. His grandfather died last night in Spain. Another Covid-19 victim.

Good one, dcarch!

I will now attempt to fit an espresso portafilter over my nose and mouth.

Batik is a wax resist fabric where wax is used to cover area that are not to be dyed. The wax is then removed by various methods and none colored area is dyed with another color. A real artist can use many colors and skillful wax manipulation for the finished product. Mass produced stuff may use a couple of passes. If you have the real thing unless it is the only cloth you have please do not use it to make a mask.

I have wondered about not passing the virus via skin contact and what happens when it becomes hot with people sweating. Looking at where the countries are around the world with the virus some of them are in very hot areas of the world.

Annie, I noticed that lack of knowledge about fabric weaves, also. Batik is not a type of fabric. As most of us know, it is a dying technique.

And, batiste, is much too thin to use for this. Given the rest of the ignorance about fabrics, weaves, and fibers that is probably not a misquote.

It is also not true that the spaces between fibers are larger in a knit than in a woven. It depends on what fabric is being talked about. Some of these new knits do actually have some pretty large spaces between the fibers. Most of those are synthetic knits and if you wear a pair of pants made out of that fabric, you will feel the wind blow through. All knit is not the same, though. If you have a nice cotton interlock knit, you will not see any light between the fibers, unless, of course your fabric came from an old worn out garment. A cotton interlock knit will also have a bit of fuzziness to the yarns that it is knit from, thus, creating little bits of fuzz that may catch that droplet of contaminated moisture. A synthetic fiber is more like a string of plastic that is smooth and has a slick surface that won't catch or hold anything.

A fabric that is really tightly woven is what is called "sheeting". I have seen sheeting fabric on bolts that is dyed in the batik method. It was popular back some years ago. Sheeting cotton is so hard and tight that the sewing machine needle needs to be really sharp to pierce it and sometimes multiple layers of it can be really hard to sew. You may need a thimble to even get a hand needle through it. It is possible that this experiment used a piece of batik dyed cotton and that cotton fabric happened be a sheeting fabric. I never understood why it is said that this is a good fabric to use as quilt backing. It may be sturdy , but it is so hard to get a hand needle through. A cotton muslin would be a better choice for running quilting stitches through.

I am not sure how sheeting differs from a percale. A tight percale might be a good substitute. It might even be classified as a percale. I don't know. But, I do know that it is some tight and tough stuff without being bulky. I have some in my mask making arsenal and have been sewing on it and through it the last few days. The sewing machine needle will let you know when you hit a piece of sheeting fabric.

I think that this researcher, or this person who wrote about it, did not know anything substantial about fabric, weaves, knits or fibers. This is very unhelpful information.

Also, there is not really anything that is designated as heavyweight quilters cotton. Most cotton that is sold for piecing at places like Joanns is pretty poor cheap cotton, with a few minor exceptions. Good quality cotton that is sold in speciality stores is not better quality because it is "heavier". It is good quality because it is made of longer staple cotton fibers that make the fabric nicer. Being "heavy" is not a quality that you want when piecing.

As dallasannie & maifleur point out, batik is a dying technique that can be applied to a number of different types of fabrics. It is not a specific type of weave. I was guessing batiste because that is what many handkerchiefs, scarves & bandanas are made from, and it sounds very similar to 'batik'. I think it might be effective in multiple layers. The folded, no-sew bandana/handkerchief masks in the videos wind up having 7-12 layers, if I counted correctly.

Also thinking a cotton percale or ticking would be the most effective. I've broken needles when trying to sew those. It's more threads per inch that make for a tighter weave. Maybe a cotton sateen would be a good choice as well? The article does mention 180 threads/inch, which is way less than most sheets & pillowcases.

I think most of the cotton fabric sold for quilting these days is what I would term broadcloth.

FWIW, I had a course in fabric science in college, and still have my textbook.

I do hope that everyone disposes their mask properly when they are done with them. This apples to paper,fabric or whatever. Our parking lots are littered with masks, bandana old scarves and gloves. Some people even leave them behind in carts. It's disgusting.

China is having one more environmental crisis added to their problems due to all the masks. This will be the next plastic bag issue for the US if people don't act responsibly.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-hongkong-environme/discarded-coronavirus-masks-clutter-hong-kongs-beaches-trails-idUSKBN20Z0PP

My son just told me they are making them wear face masks. He's in the Air Force. Only problem is they only told them at 10 pm last night. So he fashioned one from a sock. lol. He looks ridiculous in it and probably not going to help any. I sent him a couple Youtube videos on making them from tshirts but he is insisting on going in with a sock.

The CDC's front page,

HERE

The April 5th NYTimes had an informative article on selecting fabric and filters which included tips on selecting materials.

https://www.nytimes.com/article/coronavirus-homemade-mask-material-DIY-face-mask-ppe.html

A friend of mine in St. George, Utah who is a physical therapist at a nursing home was told two weeks ago that he was not allowed to wear a mask or PPE while caring for his patients because it scared some of them and they had complained. They gave him a choice of working without a mask or not working, and so he quit. I posted more details about this on KT. I was very shocked when he told me this, but the nursing home has changed its policy, but not before my friend had already quit. He refuses to go back, as he does not feel safe there.

Some friends are sewing masks from pretty fabric. SWMBO has still not sewn us any (I had my doubts) so I asked a friend in Arizona if she’d send me two, and they are on the way. I asked that one of them, mine, be of a masculine pattern or at least not look so much like you’re wearing girl’s panties on your face, as that seems to be the general theme of her fabric. She said no promises.

I wear a disposable N95 if going into a store (which happens maybe 2X a week at most), but I’m not going to wear one when riding my bike to work - too hard to breathe - and when I do wear the N95 I feel self-conscious, it’s sort of a PPE-shaming thing. So I can cover it with the girl’s panties.

I’ve been giving away my extra respirators to doctors and nurses that we know. Four so far. I’m wrestling with how many should we keep for ourselves. One per family member? I mean, seems pretty unlikely we’ll ever need to wear a full on respirator. But so much about this seemed unlikely not long ago.

I gave two boxes of my N95's to the hospital here, but kept one which I've shared with some at risk (too) friends. I bought them originally when the smoke from forest fires was so horrible here and just read they are predicting another bad fire year (last year was quite calm). I don't want to be in the position of needing masks to breathe because of the smoke and not be able to buy any. I don't feel guilty about it.