Hold off. We're edging (pardon the pun) on too late to fix that without it simply dying off again over the summer.

Of course, we might get lucky and have a nice, wet, cool summer which would keep the new grass perfectly healthy. And we might not. Usually not.

I'd feed it well in May and June and count on the KBG spreading to fill the space. Fed well, it certainly will--that's why we have KBG.

its majority tttf ....as years went by, most of my kbg kept dying off from extreme sun exposure since i have no tree shade in my yard.. The last two years have been really wet for a NJ summer. Im hoping its a wet summer again but wont know for sure. The amount of KBG i have definitely wont fill that in.

If I have new seed down now, wouldnt feeding and watering it really well help it survive the summer?

Not really, no. Spring seedings are the hardest to keep alive during summer. You can try, but expect to have to reseed again in August as summer fades.

Okay so, I just looked up the packaging of the type of fescue ive used. Packaging states its Rhizomatous fescue. Have you had experience with Rhizomatous fescue spreading? Any idea if it spreads at the same rate as KBG?

Also, do you have fertilizer recommendations? I have been using milorganite for the past 4-5 years. Should I fertilize earlier than May since the season is fairly warm compared to previous years? Lastly, does applying pre-emergent stop Rhizomatous type grass from spreading? I usually put Lesco pre-emergent down around late March/Early April but, I can also use Tenacity.

Mahtab: who is your seed producer? Is the fescue 100% rhizomatous type? I will be curious to know how it does for you this year in filling in.

Good Milorganite question.

Are you familiar with the Ocean County Utilities Authority product Oceangro?

The answer to your last question must be “ no”.

"Spreading" fescues do spread, but usually only within pretty limited clumps. So, well, yeah. Bluegrasses they're not. Pre-emergents won't stop or slow the spread of KBG or other spreading grasses, just seed germination.

I use soybean meal and apply in early May anyway (mine has zero fast nitrogen available, unlike Milo), and won't go any earlier than that. Depending on availability and scheduling, it may actually be later. Seriously, my area is so badly impacted by COVID-19, I'm not entirely sure we'll be fully back on our feet by then.

Oceangro is pretty much Milorganite. Use either as the equivalent of the other. :-)

mahtab93 said, "its majority tttf ....as years went by, most of my kbg kept dying off from extreme sun exposure since i have no tree shade in my yard.. "

What do you make of that statement, morph?

It seems unlikely, but the color overtones in the top photo also don't show evidence of much KBG, either. So it's an ancient cultivar or there really isn't much, if any, there.

I use vigoro brand fescue from the local home Depot. unfortunately I couldn't find the label that has the exact type of seed used in the bag online.

so I did not know of oceangro but, with a bit of searching, I found a thread here on it. seems to be a similar product to Milo. Have you noticed a difference in results between the two?

I am intrigued and might go down the path to try it instead of Milo. Also, Milo at the local big box store was $19 for a bag about a week ago, which is crazy because i used to buy it at $12 a bag. A local farm store near me luckily sells oceangro for $8.99 a bag.

morphe: im open to soybean meal but, no idea where i can find it and options are very limited. NJ is on a lockdown.

morph, yes there seems to be no kbg, but it would not die out from too much sun, would it?

As for finding soybean meal, go to Google Maps and type 'feed stores near (your town here)' and it will show you where to buy soybean meal. Although when I put in feed stores near Toms River I also got a donut shop. Go figure. But once you have the list of feed stores near you, then on the left side of the maps page, get on the phone to see who has soybean meal and what their price is for a 50-lb bag. Prices vary wildly from location to location due to shipping costs. The application rate is 15 to 20 pounds per 1,000 square feet. In Texas all the feed stores are considered essential to the production of food, so they are all open.

Milo and OG are essentially identical, give or take, and compared to the price difference, they ARE identical. OG would have to have less than half the nutrients, and it doesn't. :-)

Look for grain mills and farmer's supplies when NJ opens up again--whenever that is. PA is also Closed for Business right now, thankfully, as we got people dying over here and the cases just keep piling up with no real end in sight.

So if you're sensing I'm advising you wait and shop later when things calm down, yeah, I am.

Lawns really don't need to be fed until the first of May at the absolute earliest (organically, absolutely zero water-soluble nutrients like soybean meal) or mid-May if using OceanGro or Milo at the earliest (both of which have appreciable faster available nitrogen).

In no case will it hurt to wait until Memorial Day to feed the lawn no matter what the weather.

You have tons of time.

I used HD’s house brand Vigoro ttf too, last fall. Origin Oregon. I recollect only about 11% RTF. That’s why I asked if yours ( the OP) had a higher percentage.

I just went down to garage to look for the bag, but I now remember I used it all up.

Milorganite bag 32 lbs. Oceangro bag 45 lbs. This magnifies the already hefty price differential.

Garden centers, nurseries and livestock feed stores are not shut down in NJ; the Governor reversed their closure yesterday, deeming them “ essential”.

https://www.lancasterfarming.com/news/farm_policy/new-jersey-lets-more-ag-businesses-be-open-during-outbreak/article_a40d5726-6e94-11ea-b6aa-a3b6a66a3abd.html

I have absolutely no qualms against you using OceanGro versus Milo. Let me know what the current numbers on the bag are (they do adjust them every now and again) and we'll work pounds per thousand--which is trivially easy.

And I'm not going to tell you not to go shopping, of course. But I am going to say if you're going to in the NY/NJ/PA/MD area, I'd advise doing it now rather than 2 weeks from now. And better tomorrow than the day after. Capice?

im sold on oceangro. The place that carries it is only a 5 min drive from me so that plus the price factor is key for me. Out of curiosity, do either of you feed your lawn in the summer (July-August).

Im going to be cleaning out my shed today... im pretty sure i have that bag with a bit of seed left some where in there. Will post a pic of the seed label once i find it.

If you're asking me, I barely feed my lawn at all (and it shows). I know what to do and when, I just don't do it. But anyway...in my area, summer feeding is fine as long as you're using organics. Or if you have bermuda, then you fertilize every month if you can afford it.

Milorganite bag 32 lbs. Oceangro bag 45 lbs. This magnifies the already hefty price differential.

Price per pound means nothing. Price per 1,000 square feet is the only metric that matters. In this case it is likely the same application rate and Oceangro comes out with the clear price advantage, but in the future, make your decisions on $/kilo-sqft.

I avoid June and July, but do feed in August--with soy. By the time that breaks down, it's very late August into September by our rainfall patterns, which tend to not be very reliable in August anyway. :-)

Organics are...odd. While I feed in May, August, September, and October, there's always a very low level of nitrogen available as long as the ground isn't actually frozen. It's just that there's a larger amount of nitrogen available in late spring and through fall.

And yes, calculate price per thousand. :-) However, I already know that Milo and OceanGro are comparable fertilizers in terms of organics, and that the price differential you quoted is highly significant mathematically. Therefore... :-)

You get what you pay for with seed. You might keep looking for seed with 00.0000% Weed Seed. It will cost more, and Vigoro does not package it. The reason you want zero weed is that a couple of the bad weeds, bermuda and creeping bentgrass, have seed the size of dust. Even 00.1% of that by weight can add up to thousands of seeds in a bag of fescue. I would not expect to see bermuda growing in the Pacific Northwest, where those seeds came from, so you might try that Vigoro and see what you get.

Thanks mahtab. That’s a much higher total % RTF than what I had remembered; I probably just flat out missed the fact that 3 varieties were RTF. I recollect mine had the same test date as yours.

morpheuspa (6B/7A, E. PA).

And yes, calculate price per thousand. :-) However, I already know that Milo and OceanGro are comparable fertilizers in terms of organics, and that the price differential you quoted is highly significant mathematically.

As did I (already know) (of the near equivalency) - at the time I posted the bag weight comparison. And thus the comparison by weight was meaningful. In fact, any reader of this discussion would have known that, as Morpheus pointed that out (“essentially identical”) before my comment about bag weight.

Plus I said it back around the eighth-ish post on the thread, too. They're not completely identical--a neophyte probably wouldn't know that--but they're close enough that the differences really don't matter too much. Usually.

The only case where I might not use OceanGro in favor of Milo is an excessive phosphorus situation. 5-5-0 is a bit hefty in a 100% OG situation (4 pounds phosphoric acid equivalent) compared to Milo's 1.6 pounds when feeding a northern lawn well.

So actually? My soil would be one case where Milo would be a better alternative. I not only have sufficient P, but my gardens are pushing 1,000 PPM while the lawn hovers around 300 PPM.

Other considerations lead to not needing any other resource at the present instant (and if I should, I'd target them specifically).

Hence, I've chosen soy. Lower P compared to the N. I neither need nor want additional phosphorus, and I use pure urea when winterizing.

sorry, lost track of time and didnt get back. By the way, pre-emergent went down a few days ago but, I already have some weeds popping up. Tried to pull out with hand but couldnt get to all of them and can prob imagine some more pop up in the next few days with the temp being warmer. The only post emergent i have on me at the moment is tenacity. Im thinking to do a spot treatment of tenacity. Do you think that will be okay when i have a pre-emergent down already?

@morpheuspa (6B/7A, E. PA) do you get you soil tested and if so, how often? Ive never tested mine so, im not sure what N or P levels I have.

>> Do you think that will be okay when i have a pre-emergent down already?

That's fine! Tenacity will also act as an additional, weak pre-emergent, but that's no problem.

@morpheuspa (6B/7A, E. PA) I have a few questions since, youre not too far from the Jersey area. Are you concerned about the odd weather conditions we've been having? Possibility of leaf spot fungus or melting? Is there anything you recommend to prevent fungus development? NJ has been having weird heavy rainy summers the past few years and I did have some fungus issues so, I put down fungicide last year. Hoping to take the proper steps so, I can avoid fungicide.

Also, I will put the application of OceanGro down late May as I normally would have if I were using Milo. I have been reading up on a few organic options for healthier soil and greener lawns during high temp seasons and kelp, humic and bonide liquid iron has come up quite a bit. Is adding an application of any of these 3 truly beneficial in addition to the application of oceangro/milo? Also, how do you determine whats the best option for your lawn? Is it a combination or based on soil test results?

I'm holding my annuals since we just had the coldest night in over a century while, conversely, other areas had the hottest ever. :-) But other than that, I've been treating our changing climate as simply the New Normal since that's what I've been advised it's going to be; wetter and warmer as the years roll on.

With increasing rainfall and increasing warmth comes the increasing probability of invading fungi and other diseases to our plants that we haven't seen before.

That's just prelude to, well, yeah. I've used corn meal, it seems to help in the 10 pound per thousand range compared to not doing anything. Arguments to the contrary notwithstanding, they don't particularly cut any ice with me.

However, it's not going to work in areas with large amounts of disease pressure, with existing disease pressure such that there's insufficient space for non-disease fungi to set up housekeeping, and so on. So stressed environments are not the place to start this. You have to begin long before you have a problem.

>> Also, I will put the application of OceanGro down late May as I normally would have if I were using Milo. I have been reading up on a few organic options for healthier soil and greener lawns during high temp seasons and kelp, humic and bonide liquid iron has come up quite a bit.

You just set me off. :-)

First, go with the soil test. This, more than anything else, will tell you what your soil requires. Everything you listed--except perhaps the iron and kelp--are secondary. Iron can always help, and kelp can help mask any issues you have for a short period, at least. Neither actually fix the soil, but...

I do use kelp once or twice a year on the lawn. I find that Kelp4Less has the best price; get the water soluble kelp powder if you're going to try it out. Growth rate differences aren't noticeable, but the lawn does seem to benefit from a bit more temperature tolerance than otherwise and the color perks up a bit.

I use it much more often in the gardens, where I find it quite beneficial when compared to plants grown without it. There's a noticeable difference in growth rates--my guess there is the growth hormones. I've taken to using small amounts weekly in the irrigation system, around 2 oz per thousand square feet equivalent of the concentrate derived from the powder.

I tried humic acid in one garden, then the other, and in one section of lawn (but not another) for years, and in some houseplants. I never saw any difference no matter the amount I used for however long. I finally discontinued use. It might have some use in soils where organic matter is very low, or where the soil is seriously imbalanced in terms of nutrients. That is not a problem in any soil I control; I have them tested and fix them as necessary.

Iron definitely has its uses on many lawns! I spray mine in November just after I find that growth has stopped; it helps maintain incredible color right through February. It can absolutely be applied at any time you like (during summer it can be far too hot and should never be sprayed if temperatures are over 80 degrees or so), but will process through at a high rate in April and be gone in a week or two. In summer, darker grass really isn't an advantage (it just gets hotter and burns faster in sun). In fall, it stays warmer as temperatures cool, processes more sugar in less sun, and stays greener longer.

But rather than buy Bonide (expensive!) I purchase ferrous sulfate heptahydrate powder (cheap!) and mix my own. Three to four ounces of powder per gallon of water, stir, put in a sprayer and add 1 tsp of spreader sticker (or 1 tsp of any liquid soap). I also add 1 oz or so of urea nitrogen (super-cheap, or use Miracle-Gro or any high-nitrogen powdered fertilizer that dissolves easily in water), but that's optional. Spray over 1,000 square feet.

For your fescue, that would be more than enough. Bluegrasses will tolerate far more iron, but fescues tend to turn a weird alien black-green-gray that takes months to fade if you overdo it too much. They're perfectly healthy, they grow well, they're happy grasses, they just look like some alien grass that wants flesh for a while before reverting to a healthy dark green.

Last and unmentioned but actually the one I use most is soil conditioner--something Andy and I worked on years ago. He had the idea, and I'm a soap maker and a bit of a surfactant hobbyist and kitchen chemist.

This...sounds odd. Go to the dollar store or your bulk discount section of the grocery store the next time you're forced out to go shopping as food runs short and you need to brave the virus.

Pick up a nice big bottle of really cheap baby shampoo or other shampoo like Suave or the like. Whatever's incredibly inexpensive. Unscented, a scent you like, it doesn't matter. Don't get a scent you can't stand because you'll be smelling it.

Spray on the lawn and gardens at 2-4 oz per thousand square feet up to once a month through the growing season (two to three times per year is more than sufficient) to slowly open the pores of the soil. Combine it with the kelp solution to accelerate the process (you can mix the two together and spray the two mixed at 4 to 6 oz per thousand square feet). This works best if you're also feeding organically, which you are.

I use a rather different formula but...this is easier than sourcing what I get.

It's not just good for gently loosening soils over time, either. Did you just have a drought and are about to get water dumped on you? That's gonna run off dry ground just because the penetrance of water into dry soil is terrible at first. Pre-spray with conditioner and that rainfall will penetrate because of the surfactant's effects. I'll pre-spray as a drought starts and let it sit and wait for the next rainfall.

I am keeping a constant eye on any fungi development. Its supposed to get really warm (up to 80s) and rainy this week so, im debating on if i should just pick up a bag of fungicide just in case.

Hahaha, I knew I would get some pretty detailed info on the organics from you! Appreciate it! Logan Lab seems to be the popular soil test company on here so, I guess that may be the one I go with.

Just took a look through Kelp4Less... wow the water soluble stuff is really cheap for the amount of concentrate it forms. I may need to order this to use on my tomatoes and shrubs as well. If you're applying 2 oz per thousand of the kelp concentrate weekly, is this through out the whole summer or just a few weeks for each season? How much is too much and should you ever avoid application during high temps?

As for humic acid, i see that there is water soluble versions as well. What is the normal application rate and how often can it be applied? And again, should application be avoided in high temps?

I also see that there are options for kelp humic blend and fulvic humic blend. Whats the difference between the fulvic and non? Also, notice that the potassium on the blend options is far less (0-0-4) than the kelp on its own (0-0-10).

Noted on the iron - will definitely look forward to trying an iron spray application in the Fall. Nothing like having the greenest lawn on the block haha. Probably wont need it for the spring since I plan on applying the OceanGro which i believe has 2.5% iron ( I think the original Milo formula before they made changes to their facilities had a higher iron % than that).

The soil conditioning with the shampoo sounds very interesting and I am more than happy to try it out. I think I failed to mention that my yard is on a lot of clay so, this definitely will be beneficial. to loosen up the soil. Now, when youre spraying this shampoo mix, do you need to get real close to the soil or are you applying it like a blanket spray?

>> Hahaha, I knew I would get some pretty detailed info on the organics from you! Appreciate it! Logan Lab seems to be the popular soil test company on here so, I guess that may be the one I go with.

It's the one I have the easiest time reading (I can do the math and chemistry in my head on that one), so it's the one I prefer to read. Since I do 99% of the reads, therefore... Yeah. :-)

>> I am keeping a constant eye on any fungi development. Its supposed to get really warm (up to 80s) and rainy this week so, im debating on if i should just pick up a bag of fungicide just in case.

Eh, cart before horse. Wait until you develop a disease before choosing a fungicide, then choose the correct fungicide to fight that particular disease most effectively. The only ones I keep on-hand are Rose Pride and a wide-spectrum but weak preventative for the garden that I need for the zinnia once in September.

>> If you're applying 2 oz per thousand of the kelp concentrate weekly, is this through out the whole summer or just a few weeks for each season? How much is too much and should you ever avoid application during high temps?

I tend to mindlessly dump it on at 2 oz equivalent (I use an irrigation system to feed and water, so I just put 1/4 tsp of the powder right into the feeding canister with the rest of the mixed feed I bag up and let it rip) per week right up to Labor Day or so, after which I spin down the feeding. I won't feed before a heavy rainfall or immediately after a heavy rainfall, of course, so I may skip some weeks that were very wet to avoid losing nitrogen into the water table. Burning is not a concern with my watering system in any weather.

In warmer weather using a watering can or sprayer, I'd definitely dilute it down to avoid any chance of burning. They seem to recommend 1/4 tsp in 1 gal water as a foliar spray (I tend to water it in; while less effective, trust me--it works). I might go with half that or less in hot weather.

>>As for humic acid, i see that there is water soluble versions as well. What is the normal application rate and how often can it be applied? And again, should application be avoided in high temps?

I think that's 8 oz per gallon of water to make a concentrate, then 2 oz of that concentrate applied per thousand square feet. Up to once a month or so if you want, although I never found it all that helpful.

This one I would avoid in high temps; it shouldn't be active but, having limited helpfulness, it can certainly be avoided when any risk is present.

>> I also see that there are options for kelp humic blend and fulvic humic blend. Whats the difference between the fulvic and non? Also, notice that the potassium on the blend options is far less (0-0-4) than the kelp on its own (0-0-10).

Get the straight kelp and mix it at home if you want to play around.

Humic acids are very, VERY long chained molecules (actually, a whole class of them; they're kind of hard to pin down individually since they're very diverse little things). They're what organic molecules eventually become after a very long time decaying. A very, very long time. They're usually coal-derived, in fact, so they've been lying around since the Carboniferous period, and a product of lignite coal. So about 300 million years. Some of it's mined not too far from where I live, actually.

Shorter humic acids can be produced far more quickly, however, and result in some decades after organic matter begins to decay. Even years. Still, all HAs are low-energy molecules (as long carbon chains do tend to be, with some exceptions), and don't serve as food for...well, anything, really.

What they do is expose tons of partial positive and negative charges to the exterior world, attracting water molecules and oxygen molecules and resources like phosphorus and calcium to them, and binding them weakly. Plants' roots can easily pull these resources away.

That's handy if your soil doesn't have those receptors. Most soils do, but they can be lacking in sandy or highly inorganic soils.

Fulvic acids are like humic acids...but the chains are shorter. They're not quite as far down the line as humic acids and the reactions are somewhat different, the color is a bit lighter, and the claim is that they pass membranes more easily due to their "lower molecular weight." If you believe the latter, I have a bridge in New York I can sell you and you may charge a toll to all who wish to pass. That's not how ion gateways work.

They are, however, more soluble in water of all pH levels.

>> Noted on the iron - will definitely look forward to trying an iron spray application in the Fall. Nothing like having the greenest lawn on the block haha. Probably wont need it for the spring since I plan on applying the OceanGro which i believe has 2.5% iron ( I think the original Milo formula before they made changes to their facilities had a higher iron % than that).

You're going to see a difference just from the OG and the feeding, I think, although the primary expression of color is genetic. Barring forcing the issue--and you can--there's a limit. By spraying it, you can force the limit. :-)

>> The soil conditioning with the shampoo sounds very interesting and I am more than happy to try it out. I think I failed to mention that my yard is on a lot of clay so, this definitely will be beneficial. to loosen up the soil. Now, when youre spraying this shampoo mix, do you need to get real close to the soil or are you applying it like a blanket spray?

The Logan test will give us a CEC and...well, your locale already tells me a few things. :-) Most "clay" soils are, regrettably, simply just not in great shape. Once repaired and brought back into proper biological balance, they're actually gorgeous loamy soils that weren't really clay, but acted like it because they were unloved.

I actually have one of the heaviest soils of any member here--nearly a pure silt. I can dig it with my fingertips, there are a dozen worms per square foot minimum, and it grows whatever reasonable plant I throw at it. Everybody else around here complains constantly about the "terrible" clay soil.

Again, you set me off. :-) You can blanket or close-up spray. I blanket most everything. Sometimes I put a few drops in a watering can and water the pots outside. I sometimes do the inside pots, but only if I can water them through and wash out the soil.

@morpheuspa (6B/7A, E. PA) Thanks for all the info on the humic.

Working on that soil test... TBD.

I think I have some fungus in the yard. Spotted an area of yard with grass blades with some spots on it - see pic below. Really hope that I can stop it from spreading out further. Any recommendations on how to treat this? I havent really ventured much into the fungicide world except for Scotts DiseasEx.

Ordered some kelp and humic (not the blended stuff) the other day. Super excited! Waiting for that to come in. I dont have an irrigation system so its either going to be blanket spraying with a hand pump sprayer or hose end sprayer. I rarely use the hose end because im usually spot treating but, is there any benefit over using one method over the other for kelp or humic application? Hose end would be significantly faster and easier.

Curious about shampoo vs. non-ionic surfactant. I know they both work similarly to help herbicide stick better to the grass blades but, out of curiosity, does the non-ionic surfacant also help with the loosening of soil? If so, the shampoo is obviously the much cheaper buy but, still curious here.

I honestly can't tell on the blades; they resemble old, dying blades just as much as sick ones. If they're rare, I'm not sure I'd worry about it. But I'd post this in a separate thread to get people who are better at diseases than I am to chime in. Since my lawn doesn't get diseased, I'm not great at identifying them--and my vision is so poor that it's hard for me to see the details on them anyway.

"Hose end would be significantly faster and easier. "

Use your hose end. I do on the lawn and it works just fine. As long as it ends up in the soil, it has its effects.

"Curious about shampoo vs. non-ionic surfactant. I know they both work similarly to help herbicide stick better to the grass blades but, out of curiosity, does the non-ionic surfacant also help with the loosening of soil? If so, the shampoo is obviously the much cheaper buy but, still curious here."

Buy the shampoo, of course. Actually, while the shampoo is also cheaper, it's also more effective due to not being non-ionic (which is better for pesticides as well and for the same reason). The non-ionic nature of the surfactant keeps it from binding with (and interfering with) the pesticide, and also keeps it from binding with the soil and helping it to bind with other soil particles to hold them together.

However, the surfactant would help with soil penetration of water in the case of a drought or when trying to wet down peat moss or something.

@morpheuspa (6B/7A, E. PA)

I finally got around to having a soil test done. Sample was taken post 1 application of humic acid, 3 apps of kelp, and 1 app of oceanGro.

First thing I noticed is that potassium is low and I know the kelp provides some potassium but, is that enough?

what are your recommendations to get these numbers where they should be?

By the way, this is what the lawn looks like now. i have some light green areas, which i think is due to lack of iron. With the 2.5% iron from the OceanGro, how long after should i wait to apply iron application?

It's always fun to be born on third base. :-) Read below, stuff you need (not much) in bold, recommendations at the bottom.

Overall, this soil is in great shape, with minimal needs. Theoretically, if you were to simply ignore it, it would be fine as even the few things that are off aren't off that badly.

ME 11: A midrange soil, probably a silt. It could have a low-ME clay, it could be a sandy silt, but in your area, a sandy silt is the most probable. It's a good place to be and just about where I am at an ME of 16.

pH 6.8: At the top edge of perfect, which is great.

OM 5.5: Fantastic. Certainly mulch mow, mow in your fall leaves, and feed organically if you want to, but you're doing great here.

Sulfur 13: A perfectly normal answer. S levels vary widely and S leaches out of the soil easily, replaced by decaying organics. S isn't used much, but it's used everywhere. 13 is just fine.

Phosphorus 718: Extremely high, but not a problem. There's simply no reason to add any, so don't bother at any time. Even if you seed, you don't need it. Target levels are around 200, but more isn't a problem. If you do put in a vegetable garden, leafy greens might be a bit tough and chewy and you might want to consider putting in a raised bed to grow those. My P levels are actually higher in the flower garden (close to 1,000) to facilitate blossoming.

Calcium 79%: On the high end, but not a problem. You don't need any additional calcium.

Magnesium 13%: Precisely normal. It's actually pushed down a little by the very high calcium, but not by enough to matter. No magnesium is required.

Potassium 2.1%: Technically within normal range...barely...but you're right, you do need some. We use potassium sulfate for this, which you can get at most local landscape stores or they'll order it for you to pick up. Try to avoid potassium chloride, it's really harsh. Recommendations below, and I'll give you all summer to track it down.

Minor Elements:

Boron 0.52: Slightly low, but not by enough to bother worrying about at this time. 0.70 would be the target, but grass isn't particularly boron-sensitive and won't notice the difference. Trying to adjust by 200 parts per billion is difficult enough that I'm not inclined to bother.

Iron 260: Normal. There's no reason not to use Milorganite for more iron if you want, and iron isn't toxic until ridiculous levels that you'll never see (at your pH, well over 50,000 PPM), so feel free to apply Milo if you want as a feed and to green the lawn with the free iron. I do prefer to keep my iron in the 450 range, but whatever.

Manganese 21: Normal.

Copper 8.7: Extremely high, but not a problem. Copper confers some disease resistance, insofar as low levels will leave the plant open to diseases. This is not your problem. Sometimes, some diseases can be treated with copper extracts. I'd advise avoiding all of these on your soil. Your copper levels are already over the top.

Zinc 10.6: High-ish, but certainly not an issue.

Aluminum 489: Normal for a soil like this. Al is toxic, but fully bound at your pH.

Recommendations:

September 1: Apply 2 pounds per thousand square feet potassium sulfate.

October 1: Apply 2 pounds per thousand square feet potassium sulfate.

May 1, 2021: Apply 2 pounds per thousand square feet potassium sulfate.

@morpheuspa (6B/7A, E. PA)

this is great, thanks for the breakdown. I guess years of Milo apps and fall mulching has helped out with the soil!

I called around a few local farms and garden stores and couldn't find potassium but, I think that's okay for now since I am getting some in with the kelp.

As for the iron, I actually had ordered ferrous sulfate from your previous recommendation that I was going to apply in the fall. But, since I'm not getting a nice consistent green with the OceanGro, is ferrous sulfate a good next step? I've read that too much iron can cause a weird alien green color or even greyish color. At what point would it be OK to apply ferrous sulfate and at what rate (maybe half the regular rate)? Or should I play it safe with another OceanGro (maybe Milo) application?

High copper level....should I stay away from other fungicides? Not sure if DiseasEx increases copper levels.

I called around a few local farms and garden stores and couldn't find potassium but, I think that's okay for now since I am getting some in with the kelp.

Most will have to order it for you, and I'd target a larger landscape store that sells soil additives like gypsum. Some big box stores will order it as well, but prices are not going to be as good.

I've read that too much iron can cause a weird alien green color or even greyish color. At what point would it be OK to apply ferrous sulfate and at what rate (maybe half the regular rate)? Or should I play it safe with another OceanGro (maybe Milo) application?

You're at the point with iron in your soil and pH balance where the world is yours. The OceanGro/Milo will slowly add soil iron which will slowly enhance color over the course of years. Your pH is high enough that iron is bound, but not heavily so, so availability is adequate.

Spray iron is also OK at the rate of 2 to 4 ounces per thousand square feet, once a month or so if you want (avoid summer, that stuff can burn).

Fescue and rye certainly will look strange if over-ironed, and turn odd colors. They do recover and the plant is perfectly happy through the whole process. It won't happen at 2 ounces per K per month, and it's rare at 4 per K per month and shouldn't occur at your soil iron levels.

High copper level....should I stay away from other fungicides? Not sure if DiseasEx increases copper levels.

Most will be fine. DiseaseEx doesn't contain any copper. Formal chemical name methyl (2E)-2-{2-[6-(2-cyanophenoxy)pyrimidin-4-yloxy]phenyl}-3-methoxyacrylate

Ones to avoid will be named very simple things like copper fungicide, liquid copper, and so on. The bottle will usually say "copper sulfate" right on it.

The use of copper strips to repel molluscs or kill fungus or moss is fine, however, if you want to go that route anywhere. The amount of copper delivered to the soil is negligible.

Items that read "copperas" are actually an old name for iron sulfate and are just fine. The word is almost gone, but Hi-Yield still has a product that uses it!

Ah, temps have been too high. I think for the foreseeable future it'll be at least 80 so, I will avoid the ferrous sulfate until the fall. Milo app will have to do around late June/early July then.

Thats good, I was planning on using DiseasEx again very soon. I did have two small areas with some leaf spot last month with the humidity and rain.

@mahtab93

Did your leaf spot improve? Did you end up using DiseaseEx on it?

@morpheuspa (6B/7A, E. PA)

When you say muriate of potash/potassium chloride is "harsh" compared to potassium sulfate, what does that mean?

The -chloride compounds are much harsher on the soil as compared to the -sulfide ones, just because chlorine ions, free in the soil, tend to do more damage to organisms, which aren't thrilled with lots of free chloride ions hanging around. They're chemically reactive and pretty bad actors. That includes...well, pretty much everything, although some chlorine is required, of course.

It's certainly not great to have excessive sulfate ions floating around, but it takes a lot more to cause problems and they're not quite so chemically reactive.

I can, have, and will continue to work with people who can only source potassium chloride (a pretty strong salt and sold as a table salt alternative) as their potassium source. But I'll only ever suggest application at 1 pound per thousand per every 2 months maximum to give the chlorine time to wash out of the soil profile.

The only reason I limit potassium sulfate to 2 pounds per thousand per month is to give the potassium time to perk down and bind appropriately with zero or near-zero losses even if the weather is dry. In my own soil, I went at...a much higher rate, let's just say...because I knew my EC, A and B horizon depths, water input, and exactly how to gauge how long between applications.

@Jonathan M

yes, I did use DiseasEx and it did help stop the spreading, though the label made it seem like it would reverse the damage, which i dont think it did. Im going to continue with the applications to prevent anything from forming or coming back.

@morpheuspa (6B/7A, E. PA)

Did you say that you use cornmeal for preventive measures? How long does it take for the organic method to actually work? Also, how often would you need to apply for preventive and how often for active disease?

Corn meal and cracked corn. It's a weak preventative and once a season is good enough for me for most purposes--but my disease pressure tends to be as low as my weed pressure. In your case, a much firmer hand is called for right now. :-)

Next season, if you want to try it, apply 10-20 pounds of cracked corn or corn meal in April or very early May. It can take several years to have too much positive impact, but that once a year is all it should take if you otherwise feed organically.

@morpheuspa (6B/7A, E. PA) where are you getting your supply of cracked corn or corn meal? I want to try this out next year but, I started looking at pricing and cant find and way of cheap shipping.

Also, question about ph level. My soil test had a ph level of 6.8. Thats on the higher side, right? At point should I be concerned about the ph and can I add anything to the soil some time in the year to lower it, if needed?

I did have a second thought that I missed because, frankly, I'm distracted right now. :-)

Serenade is a good preventative for fungal diseases and can be used at any time. It's not going to stop a disease, but it's a great preventative to keep one from spreading. It's a bacteria that disallows the spread of fungi.

I get my corn from a local grain mill, so check grain mills, animal feed stores, farmer's co-ops, and the like. Even cities should have animal feed stores as smaller animals rely on the stuff, and any animal feed that's primarily cracked corn or corn meal will be fine, even if it has other stuff in it.

Your pH doesn't require adjustment and, from the amounts of things in the soil, won't for a long time. When it does, it's most likely to require adjustment upward in some years once the calcium leaches out, but that's in the future and won't be terribly much. I haven't done much of anything to my soil in the last ten years.