Frankie, that is exactly what I was rying to say, although it was disjointed and strung out through the thread (pun?). "I think it might be nice to have something that makes you look into it instead of at it or around it. A small patio puts the mass in the middle and give your plants something to belong to. It is one way, but not the only way or necessarily the right way for you." .... "You don't have to have a patio to do it." The same thing applies to breaking the fence. There are other plants or objects that can do it, but breaking it has a real affect. I used the term "framing" earlier, too. I don't think it is the right term. I may be better to call it "bumping". If you are trying to put gravity into an area, it re-inforces it when you put things in the composition that "bump" you back in to that space rather than creating a barrier that has a front side and a back side. A solid row or hedge tends to make your subconscience interested in what's on the other side much like a fence does. It is more subtle than fence, but does not stop the tendency. The "bump" is something we experience in both planned and unplanned situations, but is so subtle that we don't notice it. If you look around comfortable places that you frequent, you might be surprised how much unsightly stuff there actually is in open view, but somehow you never really noticed it. Look for the little not so noticable things that are keeping you from paying attention to that stuff. Something is telling your brain that the background starts before that "stuff". What makes a hedge or fence act as a background instead of a middleground when in both cases you can see objects past it? This goes on around all of us every day. When we try too hard, we often miss the simple. Here is a very simple example of "bumping". Now that this is not a hotly over-analyzed landscape, glance at the image. Where did you land? Where didn't you go?

Huttnem, For the most part, the buds begin to open and then the outer petals dry up, not allowing the bloom to unfold. There's no surface growth that I saw on pics of botrytis and there is no "edges only" browning or spotting that I saw on pics of thrips. Occasionally the whole bud dries up before it opens - but most of the time the bud partially opens and it's just the outer petals that dry up like brown tissue paper. I've tried massaging the bloom open - but with the dry outer petals, it really doesn't look that great. I had this happen with climbing SDLM years ago and finally SP'd it in frustration. BettyN

Nice collection! I'm catching up to you though ; ) I really admire your citrus dedication to winter over that many trees inside! (I'm assuming inside from your zone) I don't think I'd have the patience to move that many in and out each year. But we all tend to push the limits of our zone don't we, lol! I've got several orchids that should be indoors growing in the shade of the patio, they've done well, and have tried stephanotis outdoors for three years so far, without success, : ( But that's why we are gardeners, right? Pushing the envelope, lol! I've got 20 citrus in pots, 5 in the ground. I'd love for all to be in the ground but I have a nasty gopher population. Still trying to figure out how to get the rest in the ground but protected. I'm not fully confident in cage baskets, they seem to rust out too soon. Your trees look great! Good job!

HI Gottagarden! Wow. there is so much to say about your gardens. serously they are so stunning. I cant beelive that is the same garden in spring and now.. whoa. You are IMMENSELY talented at planning your beds- truly. I wish I had you here as a neighbor to help me! i cannever believe all the thigns you do. you must jsut be out there digging morngin noon and night every day. it's amazing you have tiem to write to us. LOL I have a couple of questions for you. First of all- i would LOVE to take some verbena seeds off your hands.I woudl love for them to go crazy here. i tried it one year and it never took?? I have plenty of cosmos brite lights seeds I can send you if you are interested. secondly- My butterfly bushes don't reseed either? But they are big and we got really heavy rains a couple of weeks ago and it bent some of the branches down to the ground... do you think it's an ok season to just cut those off and stick them in the ground? I was hoping to propagate it for my husband's grandfather this year. or shoudl I wait until spring to take a cutting to plant? ps- i found derelictgardener's post hilarious. haha. thaks for the laugh haha!