I'm trying a second time to post this, it's been sitting in limbo for 14 hours now.

It finally showed up. In addition to what I posted in the other thread: Salt does retard yeast. Some use that to their advantage, trying for a slower rise, which helps the flour to absorb liquid among other things. Some just make up for it with more yeast. I don't know what salt does to yeast when they touch whike dry. Maybe it dries the already dried yeast? Maybe it's superstition? Maybe the granny said that, about cake (fresh) yeast, which might object to salt. Especially decades ago, cake yeast might be very finicky? Maybe it was originally to adjust thesalt to taste?

There's a lot of weird stuff out there. People still insist that searing "locks in the juices" when it has been measured and proven false. It dries the outside, making the inside seem juicier by comparison. Remember that old saw about only stirring in one direction?

My bread recipe I'm working on did not taste to me like it had enough salt in it so the last couple of times I made it I added a bit more (rounded measuring spoonful instead of raked level.) And the dough hasn't risen as much either. Somehow I never put 2 + 2 together. Doh!!! If I ever get over this stupid bronchitis so I can make some more I will cut back the salt to the original amount and see if it makes a difference in the rising. Thanks for the explanation.

I am just starting to dabble in bread making and was wondering the same thing about salt and the effect it has on yeast, mostly because my bread machine manual cautions to not let the yeast touch the salt. However, I found this video on youtube, which seems to debunk this as a myth, so who knows? Since I've been making bread by hand, I just mix it in with all the dry ingredients and my bread rises just fine.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3D7a65UPbbuZE&ved=2ahUKEwiastqqwZXnAhWGK80KHQoYAFUQtwIwGHoECAQQAQ&usg=AOvVaw2E7YKSIH5ThrSMBbSbrlvw&cshid=1579637998674

It matters more in a bread machine if you're using an automatic cycle based on time rather than a rising sensor. Bread machines also use Instant dry yeast (IDY), which start blowing up fast. My previous comments in both threads are about Active dry yeast (ADY), which is "normal". The Instant blooms fast and dies young and may be a lot more sensitive to salt.

Edie, instead of cutting back the salt and losing the flavor you prefer, just add it in later, or use the recipe amount as usual, and add the extra later. Also keep in mind that you can't be sure it's the salt without testing. A cooler rising area, cooler bowl, older or colder yeast, and a number of less common factors could be causes of the shorter rise. Keep working on your recipe until you get it just right and learn what affects it in your kitchen.

The bread books all claim this and therefore many recommend adding salt later in the process etc. I'm sure it's true, but is it true enough to matter to the home baker? Frankly, not in my experience. I do long slow ferments anyway - often making the dough and then refrigerating it for the first ferment for several days. Maybe one of these days I'll make the effort to carefully knead the salt into the dough later in the process ... but not before I retire and that's a few years out to say the least.

Thanks Aziline! I'll try to be patient and let it rise more next time!

Thank you for the information, Plllog! I have been using instant yeast for all my bread baking, machine or by hand. Sorry of this is a silly question, but does it make a difference in the final product, using instant or ADY? (Sorry, didn't mean to hijack...)

lovemycorgi: I love your corgi too! That picture is precious.

I usually just toss the salt in with the yeast since it's all going to get mixed together anyway. However, when you are making sourdough bread (without yeast), you are encouraged to add the salt later, after the autolyse is completed.

Lovemycorgi, if you're getting a good loaf, it doesn't matter, even if there are subtle differences. IDY is more finicky. I was using it for something a number of years ago, but I don't remember what. You have to understand the characteristics of IDY if you deviate from a recipe or are substituting it for ADY. For bread machines on automatic, you use more yeast, and the instant so it'll get to rising fast. You can substitute ADY, stop the cycle for the rise and start it again when it's ready if you want to bake in the machine. All my knowledge of machines is second hand, however. I've watched a friend do it once or twice (she'd bring her machine to conferences).

So, I'm no expert on the differences, but there are differences in flavor and texture from slow rises and fast. Also the "yeasty" flavor that mostly comes from excess yeast. None if it really matters if you have a nice loaf of bread. The flour you use is going to make a much bigger difference.

From the King Arthur flour website:

Salt has a retarding effect on the activity of the yeast.The cell wall of yeast is semi-permeable, and by osmosis it absorbs oxygen and nutrients, as it gives off enzymes and other substances to the dough environment. Water is essential for these yeast activities. Salt by its nature is hygroscopic; that is, it attracts moisture. In the presence of salt, the yeast releases some of its water to the salt by osmosis, and this in turn slows the yeast's fermentation or reproductive activities. If there is an excess of salt in bread dough, the yeast is retarded to the point that there is a marked reduction in volume. If there is no salt, the yeast will ferment too quickly. In this sense, the salt aids the baker in controlling the pace of fermentation. Nevertheless, we should note that a careful usage of yeast, control of dough temperature, and the type, maturity, and amount of preferment used are better tools for fermentation control. Salt quantity, as we have noted, should stay within the 1.8–2% range.

From what i have learned...instant yeast and dry yeast are the same thing...but the instant is ground to a finer powder rather than granules, so it goes to work faster and doesn't need to dissolve. But they are the same animal...or plant...or fungus.
Yeasty taste doesn't come from adding more yeast but from over proofing. However when you have lots of yeast it's easier to over proof. I bake bread a lot. Have for more than 50 years.
I toss all my ingredients together....never proof my yeast unless I have a dough with a fair amount of fat.
French bread purists, those who knead a bazillion times, add the salt after kneading for a while. and their bread is delicious. I don't do that, and my bread is pretty darn good too!!

Jerzeegirl, thank you, though I confess that is not my corgi, just one that looks very similar to mine (and is similarly destructive!). :-)

Plllog, thank you, for now I'll continue with the instant yeast until I learn more. As for flour, I just use what the recipe tells me to, some have said bread flour, some AP flour; I've not tried other types of flour yet.

Lindac92, so far I have not over-proofed, but have definitely under-proofed when my yeast was no longer good - very frustrating! I just purchased a couple of books - Bread Baking for Beginners and The Bread Baker's Apprentice, and hope to expand my limited knowledge very soon!

The Bread Baker's Apprentice is one of my favorites - but another book by the same author, Peter Reinhart, is my new favorite. Really can't say enough good things about the ease and simplicity of Artisan Breads Every Day.

Lovemycorgi, those are good books. Linda is right about the instant yeast. There's one kind of yeast sold commercially (sourdough starter is a different organism). The differences are only in the handling of the product. I like ADY because it gives the baker the most control, compared to IDY or cake yeast, but it's all just yeast. :) IDY is just more likely to get played out if you want to do a longer rise, and will puff up faster than other forms of yeast.

If you're following a recipe and use the recommended flour, you're unlikely to go wrong. This is where the madness starts. So long as you're happy with your bread, you have absolutely no need to go further, but King Arthur AP and Gold Medal AP will give you different results. :) Not hugely different, but different. :)

Re the yeasty taste, professional bakers publish recipes that have extra yeast for the yeasty taste, especially for pizza, but also in other contexts. It may be that the extra yeast creates the equivalent of the over-proofing that Linda mentioned. I've only had over rises on bread a couple of times and it wasn't significant enough to taste yeasty, though I believe Linda that it happens.

oh yeah it happens! I have left my bread to rise on the counter....run an errand and got delayed and as soon as I opened the door I knew from the smell that my bread was over proofed!!

Yes and no. Yes, salt retards/kills Yeast. No, it doesn't mater. As long as you know those facts, proceed as always.

Often, maybe, a familiar recipe used many times...one might stop referring to the original recipe and just use the scale. Flour, water, yeast, salt, sugar. Get careless when prepping. Dump in the yeast and salt, in a clump, straight into a water/flour autolyse. Phone rings....

Add to one side, salt the other. Once incorporated they are encapsulated in the flour/water. not living together/touching. Or add the yeast first, salt later.

Same with proofing and heat. Proof your yeast in water higher than 110 you could kill it.

I think we have 3-4 recipes post-it-note on the inside of a upper cabinet door. Made so often we just need the weight for the few ingredients. English muffins, my crackers, and my sprouted grain brown bread I need the full recipes. The Norwegian brown bread does need to be stirred with a dough whisk in one direction to not break the gluten. A dense bread will turn out a heavy brick if the recipe is not followed.

We like Ken Forkish thanks to Ann_t.

Interesting! First time I've heard a reasoning for monodirectional stirring!! And a reason not to do it to cake. I wonder if that really helps? I've never made Norweigian bread, but tons of other brown breads, and they get stirred and set to rise so quickly I can't imagine that the gluten has already formed. Could be wrong. :)

I once read that the sharpness of the salt crystals tear the dough when kneading, and that salt should only be added near the end of kneading. In the past, I usually warm milk for the dough, and add the salt and sugar to the pan. The salt and sugar begin to dissolve, which takes care of any sharp edges that will break the gluten. Works for me. I usually make challah type bread.