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Design Dilemma Before & After Kitchens

Need awesome kitchen layout for closed in kitchen!

4 years ago

I posted as wanting a pretty, blue kitchen. Here is the floorplan that I have to work with. We really can't knock down walls in our house. Any ideas what to do with this space? We are likely going to gut. We have a family of 4, like cooking a lot, traditional style home. Interested in a breakfast built in banquet or island with seating but don't need both.

Featured Answer

mama goose_gw zn6OH

4 years ago

last modified: 4 years ago

I agree with Jan Moyer about no space for an island, especially one with seating. Have you considered a peninsula? I realize this isolates the pantry, but if it's used mainly for overflow, with more frequently used items stored in the kitchen uppers and pull-out beside the fridge, it could work. (The pull-out pantry is there to provide space for the fridge door to open fully.) In this plan the shallow storage at the bottom could be used as a bar/drinks center, snack or breakfast center, or as a butler's pantry, since it's near the DR entrance and adjacent to plumbing.

The layout is typical--fridge to sink to prep to range, since that is the normal work flow, but there is zone crossing. If dishes are kept in the wide drawers on the peninsula, a helper could unload the DW, or gather dishes to set the table, without invading the primary prep space. The peninsula provides a nice secondary prep space for helpers, or for the primary cook, for those projects which need space to spread out.

The kitchen sink is off-center to the window, but the faucet can be centered to disguise the asymmetry. Note the ghost fridge--an alternate location if using a single door model, which would open right-to-left. In that case, the corner could become an appliance garage, or pantry storage.

There are open display shelves at the end of the uppers on the range wall; items in a upper cabinet would be difficult to access from either side of the peninsula. I also included a narrow base cabinet, accessed from the seating overhang, to reclaim that space for seldom-used items.

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Comments (26)

PRO
Anglophilia
4 years ago
My own enclosed kitchen is 11 x 15. No island - cabinets on 4 walls. I use an Ikea island cart for an "island". It even can accommodate 2 Ikea stools, one at each end. <https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/dalfred-bar-stool-black-60155602/>; It's an awesome stool and one cannot beat the price! This is the cart - I painted the bottom black so it would disappear and not look heavy and bulky in this narrow kitchen. < https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/foerhoeja-kitchen-cart-birch-80035920/>;

I like having "zones" in my kitchen. I have a cook/prep/stove zone, I have the refrig and a small counter next to it which nicely hides the small microwave and my big KA mixer in the corner, I have the baking zone which is the counter under my glass front cabinets - upper on refrig wall has all the various baking ingredients/extracts etc. This zone becomes my salad prep/set-up zone and dessert set-up zone when entertaining. And then I have my clean-up zone. Three people can work in this kitchen at the same time and no one is saying "excuse me!". A 4th person can be busing/serving plates. And the island becomes a landing zone for any overflow.

I cannot tell you how well this kitchen works! As an elderly woman in not great health, I need a lot of help preparing a family/holiday meal and this kitchen allows it. But it also works well when just cooking for myself.

Here are pictures of my kitchen. I have since added large drawers to the area that had been left open as a dog nook. The dog that loved it died, and his sister never got in it again, even after we got another dog. So, I re-claimed it!

The pictures also don't show the Ikea stools. I bought these - one for each end.

https://www.gardenweb.com/discussions/4779243/finally-my-kitchen-reveal-work-completed-in-aug-2016

https://www.gardenweb.com/discussions/4779258/kitchen-reveal-continued

https://www.gardenweb.com/discussions/4779267/kitchen-reveal-continued-part-3

It's not a large kitchen but it "cooks large" and that is the key to the whole design.
M T thanked Anglophilia
M T
Original Author
4 years ago
Very nice! do you mind sharing what it costs to remodel?
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Thanks Amanda (huango) and numbersjunkie and rebunky! shifting the sink is a great idea and completely do-able. I agree, get it out of the corner. Most of the collisions happen there. :-| with a single level peninsula, I thought the that the tall skinny faucet would look odd, sticking up all by it's lonesome. Do you find that the extra counter space makes up for the not being able to hide stuff behind the second level ? good idea for more cabinet space over the fridge. that's a blind corner base cabinet to the left of the range I never thought of turning the cabinets to face out the other direction! Nope...no formal dining room. Some neighbors use the formal living room as a dining room or put a larger dining table in front of the patio door, as benjesbride suggested. the consensus is that the shorter pony wall must go. I agree! Thanks! - Mal
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1) I don't like the relation of the cooktop to the sink in option one. The island is starting to impede a straight walk between the two. 2) Your microwave should be closer to the fridge. Usually whatever you are microwaving is coming out of the fridge, so it makes sense to group the two. 3) Is there a specific reason why you want the ovens near the cooktop? Do you make a lot of dishes that start on the cooktop and finish in the oven? Unless you do, there isn't a functional reason to group the two, and it can actually be nice to have the ovens a little more out of the way. Takes a bit of pressure off the main work area -- can mean someone who is just baking can set up in a different area away from the cooktop action, etc. 4) You will get the best feedback if you post the floor plan for the entire floor this is on, not just the kitchen close-up. It is easier for us to consider traffic patterns in and out of the room if we can see all the surrounding rooms too. 5) There is a desk in the pantry? Is there a window in there too (which is not typically a good idea when it comes to keeping food fresh)? Because I cannot imagine wanting to sit and work in a dark closet when I could be out in the light and beauty and space of the dining room and using that big dining table instead. 6) This is quite a large kitchen, and you should be wary of creating a kitchen where the key components are too far away from each other to be convenient. You'll hear often people joking about needing roller skates to get around, and you are veering into that territory here. One thing that really would help cut down on that and also make it easier for multiple cooks to work at once would be a prep sink. If it is spread out from the clean-up sink, you won't ever be far from a water source while working, no matter where you are in thr kitchen, and that will be more convenient. 7) To the same point, having a lot of counter between the sink and cooktop is ideal, but you are almost verging on too much here. It's putting the cooktop and sink slightly too far apart to go back and forth between them easily (like to dump boiling pasta water). Definitely mock that distance up in real life and see if it feels comfortable for you. You might look more at having a deeper counter there (30-36" deep) rather than such a long counter. A deeper counter means you can line up your ingredients and appliances and still have room to work in front of them, yet you can reach everything without moving around as much, and the sink and cooktop could also then be a bit closer together. 8) The island is a barrier between your sink and your fridge in all of these. Imagine taking produce out of the fridge and wanting to prep it, which is almost always the start of any cooking process. The first thing you'd need to do is wash what you just took out of the fridge, so the first stop after you go to the fridge is almost always the sink. Currently, you will have to walk about 16 feet and around the island just to go from step 1 to step 2 in your normal cooking process. It's going to be annoying and feel a little ridiculous, especially if you forget one or two items from the fridge and start running back and forth. Ideally, we usually aim for kitchens where you might take, like, 3 steps or maybe one step and a pivot to go from the fridge to the sink to start prepping. For kitchens where the fridge gets a lot of action from non-cooks (snackers), it can be desirable to place the fridge a little farther away to keep those people out of the kitchen work zones, but we're talking maybe an 8 foot walk from the sink and still a straight line from the sink in such cases.
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Thanks for all the comments and suggestions, here are the responses to questions & the changes we've made (waiting for updated drawings from KD): I would flip the line up on the island, with the prep sink on the right, and a shared trash pull-out on the left Flipped the island line-up, so the prep sink is now in the middle of the island and the prep & cleanup areas won't bump into each other Moved the trash pullout to be under the main sink, will have storage on the left side of the prep sink it would be more efficient to completely separate the prep/cooking and clean-up zones We've not swapped the range & the sink for a few reasons - the range wall will be the "cooking" zone with both ovens, appliances in the appliance garage etc. Plus it will look better to have the range & hood directly across from the living & dining rooms :) While we do value function over form, in this case I'm thinking our kitchen is small enough where it won't be inconvenient to go from fridge/ pantry (supplies) to island (prep) to range wall (cook) Do you know in which cabinet the broom and step stool (and pet supplies if you have a pet) will be kept? Broom, step stool & pet supplies - still trying to figure out where these would go. One option is to add a 6-12" tall pullout closet (Rev-a-shelf or similar) next to the pantry. Another option is @jzlcantu's suggestion to remove the wine rack/ bookshelf and replace it with a 15" pullout utility closet. We like the open shelves because it breaks up the "closed/ large cupboard" feel of the pantry cabinets but a pullout closet might be more functional. why is the door opening at 48" wide We wanted to have a wide doorway leading into the hallway to make it feel a little more open & for convenience (people who want to come in for a snack from the bedrooms), there will be no actual door here just a straight opening in the wall (no trim). We would like this to be atleast 42" which could give us another 6" on the pantry wall. you have zero clearance from the door opening to the drawer cabinet There will be a 2" filler next to the wall oven (it's not currently shown, working with KD on including it in the diagram)
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PRO
Anglophilia
4 years ago
I spent $28,500. BUT... I kept all my existing appliances (had to get a new disposal), already had hardwood floors, re-used existing countertops and added a 5 ft section, same sink and faucet, already had pot lights in ceiling - added one more, and re-used under cabinet lighting. That figure includes demo of soffits, new ceiling, and all installation costs. I think what I already had would probably added $15,000 to 20,000 to cost. I just did it gradually over 32 years! Those two new drawers added an additional $1200 to total cost so really, just under $30,000. I had budgeted for $25,000 with an additional $5000 set aside. I’m very pleased I came in on target! The huge bay window was also put in 32 years before.
M T thanked Anglophilia
everdebz
4 years ago
If wanted, look in my ideabook called 'banquettes' for photos I saved.
M T thanked everdebz
PRO
JAN MOYER
4 years ago
last modified: 4 years ago
What is in the 17 feet that precedes/includes the walk in pantry? Why do you need a hallway between the kitchen and dining? We STILL aren't seeing all the adjacent spaces.

You are resisting getting a CKD to the site............and yes I do realize I sound like a broken record. The bump into the kitchen that is the door to the walkin pantry is just one issue. You don't have enough width in 12' 4 inches for a large island.
auntthelma
4 years ago
last modified: 4 years ago
In mama’s design, the peninsula not only provides seating and keeps people out of the work area, but it also makes a great buffet for serving by the dining room.
M T thanked auntthelma
felizlady
4 years ago
Use the upper 3/4 of the space for your kitchen, and the lower area across from the panty has plenty of room for comfortable family dining around a round table. A freestanding table and chairs is always more comfortable and flexible than a breakfast bar and stools.
M T thanked felizlady
PRO
JAN MOYER
4 years ago
last modified: 4 years ago
What's where? The garage?t? I'd want a less choked opening between dining and kitchen . The walk in bump and door opening is rather killing you.
M T thanked JAN MOYER
D N
4 years ago
everdebz, WOW, that's a bunch of ideabooks! :-D

I can't find your banquettes section anywhere (not enough coffee yet). What page is it, and kinda how far down the page? thanks
M T thanked D N
M T
Original Author
4 years ago
M T
Original Author
4 years ago

Here are shots of the wall if anyone has any idea how it would be possible to knock it down. Waterheater is an eye sore. I would love to make that a floor to ceiling built in for family photos framed and other items with a dummy door. Moving the air conditioning unit and water heater back would be extremely expensive and the hallway causes some challenges.
M T
Original Author
4 years ago
JAN you can see from photos it is the closet supporting underneath the stairs. It's a full walk in closet and a crawl area under the lower stairs.

The garage is directly left of the dining room and the water heater closet.
M T
Original Author
4 years ago
JAN, yes.. did you see my design I put together with no island? I am totally fine with getting rid of our island. It was a temporary fix for us when we moved in knowing we would redo the whole kitchen one day.

We are most definitely using a KDC or pro for this, but I prefer to gather info and some advice prior to it to have some background of what might be possible. A lot of people answering ARE pros so I am able to get a few professional opinions ahead of time which is always helpful.
everdebz
4 years ago
I made banquettes public, so you'll have to scroll until you find I guess...
everdebz
4 years ago
last modified: 4 years ago
MT, your drawing 5 hours ago with oval table? not sure why you can't have a 6' or less island I'll call it north of the oval.... [island runs west to east]....like this sort of:
Kitchen · More Info

Brumder Drive · More Info
everdebz
4 years ago
Idk.... your drawing again with oval table -- picture this table like yours is placed, and a small island goes out in a line from edge of booth [just turn it for your room]?
Rice-Wagner Renovation · More Info
everdebz
4 years ago
If you need a homework station or crayon table nearby - what if doors of any kind closed/opened - here you could see them. Pantry door / DR door idk would be beyond it [or just DR door beyond it] -

Busby Cabinets Kitchen · More Info

https://www.houzz.com/hznb/photos/busby-cabinets-kitchen-eclectic-kitchen-orlando-phvw-vp~36207649
M T
Original Author
4 years ago
everdebz.. I love your inspiration photos. So cool! only thing is.. do you think it would be odd to have banquet facing out towards the wall?
everdebz
4 years ago
Hi... can you re-state that another way? I don't get it yet.
Deb Zilch
4 years ago
I've never uploaded and posted. isnt a small island possible like this?
everdebz
4 years ago
last modified: 4 years ago
And where question marks are - a striking up-to-ceiling unit in accent color, or neutral. Have puck lights in it..etc... or shelves not deep...what are those plate rails called
everdebz
4 years ago
last modified: 4 years ago
If not building own island, buy one after measuring with tape on the floor for maximum size that'd fit.

As hot as reclaimed wood is getting, have someone build one and dry-brush colors, fun.
everdebz
4 years ago
Nice kitchen - is it like yours - turn positions the other way...
User
4 years ago
Anglophilai, I have less than standard clearance between my makeshift "island" and my counters, which doesn't slow me down in my kitchen but I am considering redoing things and wanted to ask you your opinion about clearance. Your linked kitchen remodel looks like it might have less than standard clearance too (42"-48" usually recommended) and yet yours functions well and large as you you've said. Can you tell me what your clearance is between your IKEA cart and you're counters? (Sorry M T to temporarily hijack your post)
cupofkindnessgw
4 years ago
I’d recommend reducing the size of your pantry so that the wall is flush with the rest of that wall in the kitchen. Create a pocket door for pantry access that slides behind the wall. The pantry is really huge, it can surrender a couple of square feet, which would really open up the kitchen and allow for a larger doorway between the hall and kitchen.

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