Obviously they do because they deleted the post that jbfoodie typed on Aug. 11th. The post read:Wow, Kathy. You have really brought this forum low with your tripe. I stopped posting here for the most part because of posters like you who only want to complain and gossip rather than discuss vintage roses. I expect you got your jollies from seeing this thread go over 100 postings. Hope you're happy now. I hope Gregg is having a sigh of relief that you will no longer be a Vintage customer. I know I would. Good riddance. This and other forums like it seem to loose their way after a while, which is why I am not as interested in following or posting in them. In the past I have obtained very valuable information on the selecting and growing of these wonderful roses. It is unfortunate that this forum has gone the way of others where the small minded rule. TO THE GARDENWEB WEBMASTER. PLEASE DO NOT DELETE THIS POST. KSTRONG IS GUILTY OF LIBEL AGAINST VINTAGE GARDENS AND GREGG LOWERY. I HAVE PRINTED OUT THE ENTIRE THREAD FOR THIS "ANNOYED WITH VINTAGE" POSTING AND AM CONSIDERING FILING A CASE OF LIBEL AGAINST KSTRONG.I have contacted you previously concerning serious problems with kstrong, about her hijacking the Kudzu posting (I was not aware that you had a Weed section for Kudzu problems so I posted in the Roses forum) and kstrong ridiculed me in the Kudzu post by putting in a link to "Kudzu at HMF (Help Me Find) that went to the Knockout roses on Help Me Find and kstrong had the temerity to make light of sending people to that link. I am not amused with kstrongs so called "humor" nor should you and all Gardenwebber's tolerate ktrongs attack and vindictiveness against Gregg Lowery. Webmaster, please read Gregg's posting in this post and kstrongs response. Margaret

No one could express that better. Thank you. Jeri

For those of you who do not know, Vintage Garden is the largest [retail] collection of old roses--and a good many newer ones. VG is pretty much the North Star of the rose community. Without them, we'd be lost. I don't mean to imply there are no other stars--we are more than grateful to all other rose nurseries, rosarians, collectors, etc. But, VG's knowledge, research, and nursery stock is unsurpassed. Even if all you grow are minis and hybrid teas, someday you will need them. As with so many businesses these days, VG has been hit by the down turn in the economy and there is a possibility they will close. Everyone who has ever grown a rose will lose if they do. If you aren't familiar with them, take a look at their site. Here's the link http://www.vintagegardens.com/ For those who are not on the VG mailing list, in Gregg's email today he announced the new availability list and the first installment of new [old] roses for '09. He also adds this spring will determine whether or they can continue and says that more detail will be out in next week's newsletter.

Elizabeth...I agree about the real original Tide, not much could ever beat that scent, but you will find here many refer to the Tide scent change in the 70's as the original Tide scent. Probably because they are too young to recall the Real original Tide LOL. I have to say...powders can and will decompose over time if they were stored in wet or humid conditions..they can also lose their scent if they are stored in warehouses with no temp control...that being said if you find a box of powder that is free flowing its most likely fine. Store it away from water sources, humidity, and bright light and it should be fine for many many years......P&G is not going to get into all of this other than what the experation date is for various reasons. Like Mich I also have found discontinued detergents/scents more often in pharmacys that are in great new condition. Probably because a pharmacy isn't selling a lot of it so it sits on a shelf in a nice climate controlled store. But let that nice box you find sit in your laundry room on a shelf and not use it, than boom its going to be clumps in a short period of time from the humid room. It all depends on the condition of the powder detergent when you get it and how you store it as to whether its going to still be stable in 10 years.