I would need to see the space that is a very odd size for an island.

Here is a drawing of the room layout. The island is narrow because the client is wanting to put an antique round table between the window(exterior wall) and the island. When the table is placed next to the window she only has close to 3 feet between the island and the table. There is no seating on the length side of the island. Does this help?

I agree, the size of the island is a little odd, very narrow for how long it is. If this is your client, don't you know how far pendants should be placed or how many they would need? I don't mean that to sound rude, but if you're a designer, isn't this something you should know? I'm going to suggest they would need 3-4 spaced 24-30 inches apart, but the fixtures can't be too wide, you need clearances so no one is hitting their head if standing on either side of the island. Then again, I'm not a pro.

Wow sorry but you are in over your head That kitchen design could have had a much better use of space and still used the antique table any lights you hang here will need to be small and on that length of counter you will need at least 3 and as much as i like odd numbers I think 4 will be better, If you are not a pro how did this job come to you I am just wondering.

I would probably re-work the table and the island. That layout does not make sense to me, and anyone sitting at the table will have barely enough room to push their chair out with enough clearance.

But if it stays the way it's drawn, I still standby 3-4 pendants (8-12" in width), spaced 24-30" apart. Or one long linear pendant.

I manage projects for people. The kitchen was drawn out by two designers and this is what the owner thought would work best for how she plans on using the space. She was given many options. The owner liked this layout the best. I appreciate any input - not trying to be a know-it-all!

My client lives by herself and keeps the table pushed up against the window 99% of the time. She plans on sitting at the end of the island most of the time. Thank you for your input on lights. I appreciate it.

Susan Campbell, ask the designers what style pendants and how many they recommend.

This is what happens when a designer doesn't stomp her foot............NO. A horrible proportion for an island. Ask the designers at fault for a suggestion. We don't even know the style and flavor of the kitchen. I'd use the longest linear I could find, for the RUNWAY. : (

If this is a horrible proportion, how wide should it be at minimum? 3', 4', or 5'?

I guess if this client is truly eyes-wide-open about this and still wants to spend a lot of money on this kitchen with a poorly-functioning design, that is ultimately up to her. Maybe this table that is dictating all of the subsequent issues has sentimental values (?)

Are you managing this for the client? Or are you managing this for the designers you mentioned?

If the client is fully aware that this current design offers no room for seating around table because of position, no seating at a large island with an oddly small and useless overhang, clearances that may not even meet code requirements at the oven and fridge locations, an overall odd appearance that looks - and will feel - out of balance and crowded, and an expensive new space that could actually make selling her house difficult to sell.... then I guess there's not a whole lot more you can do.

BUT....if client's eyes aren't wide open on these issues and she doesn't know that she is throwing tens of thousands of dollars at a terribly poor design....I would feel a personal obligation to speak up to her (or designers) so that a different design can be offered.

Ten feet on an island needs a four foot width, minimum. Otherwise it's a runway. Better? 4 X 8'

I often have to steer clients away from something that I know is not good the client is not always right and this is one of those times .IMO it is our responsibility to give the best design possible .

the client is fully aware of the sizes....I have laid it out for her, measured it for her and drawn it on the floor for her. On the other side of the table is a large window. She wants to be at the sink with the option of looking outside. For years she stared at the wall (the sink was where the stovetop will be now) while doing dishes. Jan Moyer - I will present the idea again of the 4x8 size island. I appreciate your comments and do think about the other possibilities. The custom cabinet company has been to the job and has approved all the distances between the cabinets, ovens and refrigerator. The whole room is only 15.5 x 17.5 in size.

I would space 4 pendants so that two are to either side of the sink and centered on the hood. Then two more halfway between those and the edges of the island. What height is the ceiling?

8 feet ceiling

Appreciate all your comments. After some discussion, the owner has conceded to remove the table from the room and enlarge the island to suit the room better. So, now we are considering an island the size of 102 x 48 (8.5 x 4). Does that still seem too long for that space? We have agreed to do seating along the length of it (4 stools). Would you center the sink or is it OK to have it off center? We are wanting put a garbage receptacle, dishwasher and microwave into the island base.

Susan,

Your best answers will come from a flat and dimensioned plan that includes every appliance , window , door.

Kitchens are inches,

Post that:)

This is the kitchen with the island at 8.5 x 4' and the table to the side.

Better. Still a bit of a pinch at garage entry. Knock six inches off the island length and 12 inches is sufficient for stool overhang. You can do that,

An additional thought: once the island is figured out, you and she should consider sliding the range to one side or the other so that it doesn't line up with the sink. With multiple cooks, this would avoid doing the "bump." And in her situation with only one cook, this would avoid her having to pivot 180 degrees when moving things from the sink to the range and vice versa.

Avoid overthink . Two cooks at once is not her issue I'm sure. Make the island work as you have.

Just lop six inches off it, adjust overhang to 12" and move on:)

Well, we keep refining and I have one more photo to share with you all regarding the layout of the island. Please weigh in

With counters the island is 99" long and 43.5" wide...with a 12" overhang with seating available for 4. Increased the space between the back counter and island to 44". Rearranged the layout of the island so the sink is staggered with the stovetop. The owner has asked about putting the sink more in the middle....if I swap the garbage and the dishwasher it only moves the sink toward the table by 6". It still wouldn't be in the exact middle of the island, Is there a "correct" side of the sink to put the dishwasher?

"...measured it for her and drawn it on the floor for her"

I'm glad the client finally understood the major issues she was causing with that table. However, in the future, drawing or taping something on a floor does NOT give the actual "feel" of the space and items. You need to mock it up with boxes, etc., to create the the mass of the items as well as the limited aisle widths, barriers (e.g., barrier island), workspace, etc. Only then will the "feel" of the space be created for someone to know what they are getting themselves into.

"The custom cabinet company has been to the job and has approved all the distances between the cabinets, ovens and refrigerator. "

Most cabinetmakers, custom or otherwise, don't really understand aisle clearances, seating overhangs, etc. Their focus is on the construction of the cabinets. It's the designer's responsibility to ensure a functional space is designed.

Yes, many cabinet salespeople call themselves "designers", but they aren't. When I say a "designer", I mean a KITCHEN designer educated in good design practices.

E.g., what are the actual aisle widths b/w the items that stick out into the aisles the farthest -- e.g., appliance handles, counter overhangs, etc.? That's your true aisle width, not cabinet-to-cabinet like so many cabinet salespeople show.

Do not reduce the overhang to 12"! The minimum recommended is 15" for average height people. 12" is skimping and can be uncomfortable for much more than a few short minutes.

You have plenty of space behind that island for a 15-inch overhang.

Centering the sink -- for prepping, your client will need at least 36" on the non-DW side of the sink for workspace with 42" to 48" much better.

Is the refrigerator against a wall that's deeper than the refrigerator box? It sort of looks like a wall is there in the drawing. Is the refrigerator a true built-in, fully integrated refrigerator (it doesn't look like it)? I'm asking to be sure there is enough filler b/w the wall and refrigerator to allow the refrigerator to open fully.

The refrigerator is a counter depth. There is room there for the doors to open...Already addressed that with the custom cabinet builders.

.

Work Zones:

Before

After.....I apologize that the angle isn't the same on the picture but you get the idea of the project. The owner was very thrilled at how it turned out.