Which Roses Don't Float Your Boat?
ingrid_vc so. CA zone 9
4 years ago
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BenT (NorCal 9B Sunset 14)
4 years agolast modified: 4 years agoingrid_vc so. CA zone 9 thanked BenT (NorCal 9B Sunset 14)Related Discussions
I'd love your input. Of these- which need support & which don't?
Comments (12)In my PNW garden these roses grew well. Bouquet Parfait...nice big shrub Prosperity...threw tall canes which then bend right over Blush Noisette....another tall bush which will flop Abraham Darby.....big, tall bush but could stand alone Dark Desire...those thick canes will never need help. Cream Veranda...makes a medium sized bush Polar Express...another medium sized bush Young Lycidas....he can stand alone, big bush Kosmos Fairy Tale...a flopper but staking won't help Crown Princess Margaretta...more tall canes which could use a stake Mme Issac Periere....she stands alone but some canes need tying in Jubilee Celebration...no problems with this one Jude the Obscure....he needed help to look tidy Pat Austin...she liked to lay her head in the mud so she needs help. I have grown roses on a chainlink fence and I found that I had to plant them at least five feet away from the fence or the canes got twisted when they stuck in the chain link mesh. I pruned the back of the bushes to keep them growing straight the first year. I also kept an eye out the first couple of years to make sure they were not getting into a pretzel shape. Those roses such as Crown Princess, Abraham, Prosperity all need some of the front canes to be tied back. This will make a more attractive hedge instead of roses fighting with each other. Also if you have anything called snow, it won't break down and damage the bushes. Make sure you clean out any thin or frail looking growth at the base, you will need some clearance to fertilize or weed them. I am assuming that you aren't into having your skin shredded and stabbed by rose canes. It certainly will look very attractive in a few years time....See MoreWarning warning! Don't go to Armstrong if you're trying to save $!
Comments (12)Thank you for this post even if I never see it in person. I wish I had known this Summer that Papa Meilland was such a desired rose with great fragrance. They had beautiful large 2gals. at Walmart for cheap. I thought if they had it, it must not be desirable. Isn't that stupid? Maybe they'll have have next year. It seems one never knows where good roses will appear. Romogen, DB is a wonderful rose for me thus far, but if my NOID is TdU, it's also well worth having. They both seem to WANT to bloom, much like Sugar Moon, even in less than ideal situations. That Malvern Hills looks gorgeous judging by Malorena's pic in another thread from today. She loves it, but she's in England. Maybe you can find some Austins like I did at Lowe's next year....See MoreRoses that don't shatter quickly in wind or rain? And those that do?
Comments (18)Vesfl, what lovely comments - I appreciate your kind words, but do remember I've learned so much of what I know about roses from GardenWeb myself (well, that and making lots of mistakes of my own). Now you're here sharing your own expertise and every bit of that input makes this the lovely community that it is. I'm glad that RdV is happy and settled in your yard, and I'm sure she'll be lovely for you. That's interesting about Sydonie. Mine is the Dorisy/Vibert HP from Vintage in 2013, so I'm pretty sure it's accurate coming from Gregg Lowery. As I recall, their information listed both Dorisy and Vibert as breeders and/or distributors, so it may be that this is one of those roses that has mixed identification as a Portland or HP in different sources, or perhaps that there are two roses that have been confused over time. There may indeed be different versions circulating, as can happen with OGRs. Also, some folks might post about the mannerly nature of a given rose only to discover it hasn't gotten its legs under it yet for the sprint across the yard. Lisa, if you have a small space for this rose, it's undoubtedly going to get bigger in your zone than mine so caution is a good thing. However, this is a rose that is 12 inches high and 12 feet wide, so it could either ramble through another rose or potentially be encouraged to wind around some support. As I recall the canes are fairly flexible, and it's entirely cane hardy for me most years. I put in Soupert & Notting last year from Rogue Valley and it survived the winter fine, though not with any canes. I haven't seen much blooming yet from mine but it's in part shade and I don't really expect much till the third year from any rose. I'm looking forward to the funky blooming pattern you describe, Genevre. It's reassuring that the Pernet moss roses don't have the very tender nature of the Pernet HTs, since the latter are woefully wimpy over the winters in multiple tries. Salet has also survived quite well - cane hardy in my zone - and I had a few blooms this spring but again I don't expect much in its second year yet. I also have Fairmount Proserpine on my wish list for next spring, and High Country Gardens nearly always has roses that are nicely hardy in zone 5. Thanks for the suggestion Genevre! Cynthia...See MoreCold zone rose gardeners who don't winterize. Are grafted roses best?
Comments (16)I really have mixed feedback on this issue. I totally agree that the robust growers in cold zones do fine on their own roots and you don't have to worry about suckers from the graft. Too robust growers (like gallicas) can be better grafted so that you can plant the graft ABOVE the soil (only) for those super-hardy roses and avoid the gallica taking over the garden bed. I also agree that grafted roses of the wimpier varieties of HTs and floris are more robust in their first year or two and tend to grow bushy faster than own root versions of those plants. However, I've recently started to experience the down side of grafted HTs in a cold climate. First of all, virtually all of the grafted HTs and floris that I've planted with the graft properly buried have gone own root over time if they've survived. For instance, I bought In the Mood grafted from a local nursery and it was fabulous and bushy in its first year. The second year and for every year after that, it was a knee high one-cane wonder until it finally gave up the ghost and died after about 6 years. The same process has been happening more gradually with my grafted Savoy Hotel. It was lush (maybe 4.5' by 4.5') and incredible in its first year or two, ranking in my top 20 of roses. Every year since then it has declined and come back from the winter more slowly. By August this year, my plant in optimum sun and soil conditions has just now reached almost 3 feet with 3 canes on it and a couple of blooms here and there for the first time all season (nothing at all in June). Here's a contrast picture to show that effect - this is 2013 in June for Savoy Hotel at its full 4.5'x4.5' glory. Savoy Hotel is at the bottom right corner keeping up with Madame Isaac Periere in the back of it with no trouble. Granted, this was a particularly good rose year, but you can see the relative sizes. Now just one year later in 2014, here's Savoy Hotel in front of MIP (bottom center) also in June, and this was an average rose year for me. It's too late for MIP on the shepherd's hook to be blooming, but you can see MIP's height by the purple clematis. Notice that she's now in 2014 only 3' high and has about 4 blooms every couple of weeks. She has declined from that since, even though she's still a very nice rose. I don't have any more recent bush pictures for her since I only get the scattered blooms any more, and only late in the season to boot. One other effect I'm seeing in my older grafted roses this spring in particular is graft failure for a lot of my well-established roses with the graft well buried. Even under the soil, it seems like a grafted rose starts running out of places to grow new basal shoots after a while. For instance, this spring I lost an 8 year old Dream Come True (the tall rose at the left of the first picture) for no good reason that I could see, and it was a mild winter. Sure, you see pictures of 50 year old grafted HTs in warm climates, but those are warm climates. I suspect that if we have a 50 year old HT rose in cold climates that started out grafted and is still alive, it has gone own root in that time and is a robust rose on its own roots. My reluctant conclusions are that if a rose is going to be a wimp, it will reach that state on its own whether own root or grafted. If I get an own root HT rose through its first winter it will increase in size to its sustainable height and vigor and more or less stay there for the duration. If I get a grafted HT rose through its first winter, it will decrease in size to its sustainable height and vigor and stay there till the graft fails or it goes completely own root. There are only a few roses where I think the graft did give the rose a little boost in survival over that first winter, Memorial Day and Oklahoma come to mind, but for the most part I don't think it buys me anything in either survivability or vigor after the first year. That's why I tend to grow my HTs and floris on their own roots. I want to know the long-term height it's really going to be in its early years, I get reliable winter survival of the original rose from own roots if they get to a good size in their first year, and I don't have to dig up a massive root system when it dies or deal with suckers. Just my two cents Cynthia...See Morenoseometer...(7A, SZ10, Albuquerque)
4 years agoingrid_vc so. CA zone 9 thanked noseometer...(7A, SZ10, Albuquerque)sandyslopes z6 n. UT
4 years agolast modified: 4 years agoingrid_vc so. CA zone 9 thanked sandyslopes z6 n. UTLynn-in-TX-Z8b- Austin Area/Hill Country
4 years agolast modified: 4 years agoingrid_vc so. CA zone 9 thanked Lynn-in-TX-Z8b- Austin Area/Hill Countryflowersaremusic z5 Eastern WA
4 years agovesfl (zone 5b/6a, Western NY)
4 years agoingrid_vc so. CA zone 9 thanked vesfl (zone 5b/6a, Western NY)ingrid_vc so. CA zone 9
4 years agolast modified: 4 years agoMelissa Northern Italy zone 8
4 years agoingrid_vc so. CA zone 9 thanked Melissa Northern Italy zone 8Lynn-in-TX-Z8b- Austin Area/Hill Country
4 years agolast modified: 4 years agoingrid_vc so. CA zone 9 thanked Lynn-in-TX-Z8b- Austin Area/Hill Countryingrid_vc so. CA zone 9
4 years agoBenT (NorCal 9B Sunset 14)
4 years agolast modified: 4 years agoingrid_vc so. CA zone 9 thanked BenT (NorCal 9B Sunset 14)ingrid_vc so. CA zone 9
4 years agoBenT (NorCal 9B Sunset 14)
4 years agolast modified: 4 years agoingrid_vc so. CA zone 9 thanked BenT (NorCal 9B Sunset 14)ingrid_vc so. CA zone 9
4 years agosultry_jasmine_nights (Florida-9a-ish)
4 years agolast modified: 4 years agoingrid_vc so. CA zone 9 thanked sultry_jasmine_nights (Florida-9a-ish)ingrid_vc so. CA zone 9
4 years agoMelissa Northern Italy zone 8
4 years agoingrid_vc so. CA zone 9 thanked Melissa Northern Italy zone 8Dillybeansown (6b in the Ozarks)
4 years agoingrid_vc so. CA zone 9 thanked Dillybeansown (6b in the Ozarks)ingrid_vc so. CA zone 9
4 years agolast modified: 4 years agoAmanda Zone10Socal
4 years agoHalloBlondie (zone5a) Ontario, Canada
4 years agoKimberly zone 10 so cal
4 years agoalameda/zone 8/East Texas
4 years ago
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Lisa Adams