How about photos of the actual interior as it is now? Does the house have any architectural features that make it wonderful?

Also what part of the country do you live in? That may explain the long center hallway.

I'll try to organize some photos of the space but what's great about the house is that is is rock solid with 12 ft ceilings and thick 3-piece hardwood baseboard moldings and fluted moldings around the windows and 8ft solid wood doors. All original. Hardwood floors. Original 8ft Parlor windows (floor to ceiling). Underneath the drywall and layers of panelling is/was solid tongue & groove wood walls. There are 4 fireplaces. Sort of a textbook southern cottage.

The center hall was functional because it is a southern cottage and all of the doors/windows can be opened so you get a good cross breeze. Additionally in these old houses you wanted the option to close off and only heat required rooms. Since we're installing HVAC we don't require the center hall anymore and can't sacrifice that space.

Have you thought of converting the attic into the master bedroom suite? Do you need four bedrooms? Or will these be offices/guest rooms? I agree with cpartist, the original layout has a nice flow.

cpartist - I can't live with the space as it is now since there are 0 closets and the bathroom at the very far end of the house just isn't conducive to my life or the way I prefer to use space. As far as the "old house" lovers are concerned... I let them have at it. I'm going to do the best I can to make the house work for me and save as much of the original materials to reconstruct a new more modern floor plan.

In reality the first lounge space is separated from the living/dining by a large fireplace/chimney which opens to both sides of the room and on the other side there will be very large pocket doors installed.

tartanmeup - I only really "need" 2 bedrooms but the space is available so it's better to get it done now. The largest upstairs room could certainly be used as a master and the other will serve as an office. The house has very good bones but the floor plan as is was all shut in and very dark. The 400 sq ft hallway might look enticing but in practice it is a waste. Not large enough to use for anything other than a corridor but large enough to be impractical for a house without any closet space and one bathroom.

The plan is to divide spaces into usable space by using 4 strategically placed walls and open up others by removing 3 walls. Not a lot of framing and no moving of any exterior walls so easy to undo in another 100+ years if I can keep it standing that long.

I wouldn't like the master bedroom opening off the foyer like that; it feels very exposed to the public areas of the house. Even if you don't have enough guests that you care, I would think it would impact resale.

I totally understand wanting to update the current floor plan to something more livable and that better matches the realities of modern life. That said, I think there is a way to accomplish it better than your current plan shows. I think there is likely a middle ground between the very contemporary open floor plan you show and the very divided original. Perhaps using more cased openings would let you keep at least a bit of the feel of that center hall and separate rooms while nonetheless opening it up to fit with modern tastes?

If you're adding bedrooms upstairs, where are the stairs?

Kristin is saying what I was trying to say.

Who came up with the "updated" layout for you?

I would not want my master opening onto the living room.

I would not want my front door opening right into the living room

Why do you need 4 toilets in a 2 bedroom house with only 2 occupants?

Why would you want one of the toilets in the same room as the laundry? Yuck.

Why when you come in the rear door do you want the first thing you see to be the powder room with a view of the toilet?

Why do you need such a large master bath?

Why would the second bedroom need a walk in closet? Reach ins that are designed well actually store more than a small walk in.

Also if you're not already living in the house, please don't discount the actual advantages of how the house was built to take advantage of the breezes. I'm sure there are nice spring days when opening the doors and windows would be a pleasure. How do I know? I live in SW Florida and we live for those days.

Plus I can tell you that because my house was designed to take advantage of cross breezes, even on hot days, it made it more pleasant indoors. I know this because before the AC was installed, we'd open all the windows during construction.

I wouldn't like the MB in the front either nor would I be crazy about going through the bathroom to access the closet. Have you thought of a closet wall for the MB? That can be more space efficient than a 4-walled closet.

Kristin S - I'm a little concerned about the opening for the master bedroom there but that door already exists and there isn't a really practical way to provide more separation other than doing a large opening and building another set of very tall pocket doors perhaps? That "living" room is divided by a large double-sided brick fireplace which is difficult to see on the attached plans.

For some context...In the last year I've had only 4 visits/visitors to my house so under circumstances like that I'm not very inclined to designing the space around other people. It also helps that this house probably won't transfer ownership until I pass away in hopefully 50+ years and I'm sure the new owners will give it a full reno.

The stairs will be at the end of the new foyer. This photo currently doesn't show it but that will also help shield the master bedroom door a bit.

cpartist -

Who came up with the "updated" layout for you?

Me. Trying to plan it out before I make irreversible changes.

I would not want my master opening onto the living room.

It's a minor problem for me. Trying to find a solution.

I would not want my front door opening right into the living room

Eh...there is some separation. Enough for me anyway.

Why do you need 4 toilets in a 2 bedroom house with only 2 occupants?

Eventually 4 bedrooms and likely another 2 toilets. I care for a sick parent who needs an en suite and other accommodation. So currently 3 added toilets and a bonus (laundry). The toilet in the new laundry room is only staying because the plumbing is already there and theres no reason not to have an "extra" toilet. The other is a proper half bath.

Why would you want one of the toilets in the same room as the laundry? Yuck.

Very common in these parts. Even when we lived in a 7,000 sq ft house the laundry room had a toilet just in case. Nothing "yuck" about it to me.

Why when you come in the rear door do you want the first thing you see to be the powder room with a view of the toilet?

Why would I see the toilet in a room with the door closed? Why would I care? Would I put it elsewhere if possible? Sure but that doorway already exists and it happens to be an ok spot for it. It's a 100+ year old house and I'm working within the confines of what it's giving me.

Why do you need such a large master bath?

It is the size it is because that's roughly half of the room I'm converting. I cannot make it smaller.

Why would the second bedroom need a walk in closet? Reach ins that are designed well actually store more than a small walk in.

Because she has clothes and hats and and and. There's no way a reach-in designed well could physically store more than a larger walk-in designed well. The math doesn't work.

Also if you're not already living in the house, please don't discount the actual advantages of how the house was built to take advantage of the breezes. I'm sure there are nice spring days when opening the doors and windows would be a pleasure. How do I know? I live in SW Florida and we live for those days.

Plus I can tell you that because my house was designed to take advantage of cross breezes, even on hot days, it made it more pleasant indoors. I know this because before the AC was installed, we'd open all the windows during construction.

I'm born and raised in lower Alabama so believe me when I say I know all about heat and how/why this house is designed this way but that center hall is going. No if/ands/buts about it. Nice spring days come a few times a year around here and I just don't open doors/windows for prolonged periods for other reasons. Allergies. Noise. Pollution. Neighbors. This is a city house.

So much of what we do to or design in our homes is a direct reflection of our personalities and the way we've organized our lives. What works for me probably would make you scratch your head and vice versa.

Now I'm trying to fix this bedroom opening into the living space. I'm considering ways to use the stairs to help shield the view.

tartanmeup - Do you mean opening the wall between the master bath and closet? Making it one large space with closet doors hiding the clothes?

No, sorry, I wasn't clear. I meant a reach-in closet/wardrobe unit along a wall rather than a walk-in closet. I don't find walk-ins to be terribly space-efficient. You know your storage needs best though. It was just a thought seeing your new plan and the size of the MB in the original.

partist -

Who came up with the "updated" layout for you?

Me. Trying to plan it out before I make irreversible changes.

Maybe instead of you trying to do it yourself, you should seriously consider working with an interior designer or architect who has experience working with older homes of character.

You can make the house great or you can remuddle it. Right now your version is a remuddle because the flow between spaces doesn't work.

I would not want my master opening onto the living room.

It's a minor problem for me. Trying to find a solution.

The solution is to work with someone with design talent. I don't know what you do for a living but if design or architecture is not in your wheelhouse, you'd be best advised to work with someone who's skill is geared towards design.

would not want my front door opening right into the living room

Eh...there is some separation. Enough for me anyway.

No comment.

Why do you need 4 toilets in a 2 bedroom house with only 2 occupants?

Eventually 4 bedrooms and likely another 2 toilets. I care for a sick parent who needs an en suite and other accommodation. So currently 3 added toilets and a bonus (laundry). The toilet in the new laundry room is only staying because the plumbing is already there and theres no reason not to have an "extra" toilet. The other is a proper half bath.

Why would you want one of the toilets in the same room as the laundry? Yuck.

Very common in these parts. Even when we lived in a 7,000 sq ft house the laundry room had a toilet just in case. Nothing "yuck" about it to me.

So what you're trying to do is squeeze 10 lbs in a 5 lb bag. Sounds like you really will need to build up and that takes the skill of someone with design talent.

When are you planning to add two additional bedrooms? And if it's just you, (and Mom) why would you need to add more bedrooms?

Wouldn't it be better to create a separate bath and laundry and have 2 1/2 baths or 3 baths instead of 4? Seems the space taken up with all these bathrooms could be better used for actual living spaces.

And does a 4 bedroom house need 6 bathrooms?

Why when you come in the rear door do you want the first thing you see to be the powder room with a view of the toilet?

Why would I see the toilet in a room with the door closed? Why would I care? Would I put it elsewhere if possible? Sure but that doorway already exists and it happens to be an ok spot for it. It's a 100+ year old house and I'm working within the confines of what it's giving me.

Every comment again points to you not understanding what you don't know regarding design and renovation of an old house. There are ways to rearrange the space to make it flow better.

I just noticed another problem. You don't even have a full wall for the kitchen.

Why do you need such a large master bath?

It is the size it is because that's roughly half of the room I'm converting. I cannot make it smaller.

Of course you can make it smaller. You can also make it smaller and add 1/2 closet so the closet doesn't stick into the hallway. Again a person of design talent could help you see the other possibilities. Possibilities that won't remuddle the house.

Why would the second bedroom need a walk in closet? Reach ins that are designed well actually store more than a small walk in.

Because she has clothes and hats and and and. There's no way a reach-in designed well could physically store more than a larger walk-in designed well. The math doesn't work.

Does your sick parent have issues with walking? Need a walker? Because what you designed is no way aging in place friendly. And unless that closet is at least 5' x 8', you are incorrect. A long closet with a closet system will hold a lot more and be a heck of a lot easier for a person with issues to get to. Clothes don't turn corners and hanging clothes need a minimum of 2' of space.

So much of what we do to or design in our homes is a direct reflection of our personalities and the way we've organized our lives. What works for me probably would make you scratch your head and vice versa.

Yes what we decide to put into the house is a reflection of our personalities. Things like wallpaper or not, style of floors, rugs, furniture etc. However good flow in a house is universal. If it's good the house lives well and you never notice it.

If the flow of the house is poor you'll notice it every day. Every thing you do in a house with poor flow and layout tends to be an extra chore.

cpartist -

Maybe instead of you trying to do it yourself, you should seriously consider working with an interior designer or architect who has experience working with older homes of character.

You can make the house great or you can remuddle it. Right now your version is a remuddle because the flow between spaces doesn't work.

Perhaps. But I wouldn't dare do that unless I had already exhausted my own thoughts about my own house.

I don't know what you do for a living

Clearly.

So what you're trying to do is squeeze 10 lbs in a 5 lb bag. Sounds like you really will need to build up and that takes the skill of someone with design talent.

When are you planning to add two additional bedrooms? And if it's just you, (and Mom) why would you need to add more bedrooms?

Wouldn't it be better to create a separate bath and laundry and have 2 1/2 baths or 3 baths instead of 4? Seems the space taken up with all these bathrooms could be better used for actual living spaces.

And does a 4 bedroom house need 6 bathrooms?

Pretend you don't see the toilet in the laundry. It will be an auxiliary so what we have is a 2bd/2 1/2 bath. I've lived in apartments with exactly the same ratio and wouldn't have any fewer. No, 4 bedrooms don't need 6 bathrooms but 4 bedrooms with 3 full and 2 halfs doesn't seem off to me.

Every comment again points to you not understanding what you don't know regarding design and renovation of an old house. There are ways to rearrange the space to make it flow better.

I just noticed another problem. You don't even have a full wall for the kitchen.

I know enough to know that I personally don't live in a world where I have a problem seeing a toilet in a bathroom if the door happens to be open. As we get more room specific we'll consider carefully placement of fixtures. We've had no issue planning the kitchen with the amount of wall space we have to use.

Of course you can make it smaller. You can also make it smaller and add 1/2 closet so the closet doesn't stick into the hallway. Again a person of design talent could help you see the other possibilities. Possibilities that won't remuddle the house.

What is it with you and this hallway? A half closet is of no use to me personally. I don't need to save the hallway because it serves no purpose and that space is being reclaimed for storage that I can actually use.

Does your sick parent have issues with walking? Need a walker? Because what you designed is no way aging in place friendly. And unless that closet is at least 5' x 8', you are incorrect. A long closet with a closet system will hold a lot more and be a heck of a lot easier for a person with issues to get to. Clothes don't turn corners and hanging clothes need a minimum of 2' of space.

Not sure what about the places isn't friendly to someone aging. The walk-in isn't necessary and I could consider opening it up and creating a wall of cabinets for storage but that seems less than ideal.

Yes what we decide to put into the house is a reflection of our personalities. Things like wallpaper or not, style of floors, rugs, furniture etc. However good flow in a house is universal. If it's good the house lives well and you never notice it.

If the flow of the house is poor you'll notice it every day. Every thing you do in a house with poor flow and layout tends to be an extra chore.

We'll disagree that they way we arrange our spaces isn't also a reflection of how we live differently. Good flow for your life and mine are probably different since we no doubt use our spaces differently.

tartanmeup - Oh I see! The issue is that I have a lot of things to store and having it up and out of the way is typically preferable. I once had a rowhouse in DC and the bedroom closet was just a wall of large sliding louvered doors which were less than ideal. If I did that again they'd need to span the entire 12' wall height. Also, if I put a wall of storage in the bedroom I'd be left with that open "hall" which doesn't serve any purpose that I have found. Another sitting area or bigger living/dining space?

I'm going to rework this floor plan a bit and I'l post an update with some revised thoughts!

Jason, hope to see your next plan. One thought I had was to change out that laundry room toilet to a dog bath.

Home Renovation, Boston, MA · More Info

Has to be tough working within these walls many, I assume, are load bearing. Re the extra toilet, where I live, many basements - unfinished- have a toilet smack dab in the middle of the room. Not sure why, but in older houses with just one bath, it comes in handy...

Anyway, I attached a drawing with a suggestion for a different master bedroom entrance. Do have a concern about your bathroom layouts. For the half bath, for the fixtures to be facing each other, the room width should be at least 7’. In the guest bath, same issue - not enough space between the toilet and sink. Would enlarge the half bath/reconfigure the guest bath.

My preference would be to close off the mud room only to hide the inevitable mess. Would also give the guest bedroom entrance a little privacy.

Good luck with the remodel!

By removing the center hall, you will lose all of the moldings that you find to be so special. It would be helpful for you to start over and add the fireplaces and properly sized doorways as they currently exist to the original rendering. We don't know which fireplaces you plan on keeping and which doorways you are losing. These fireplaces are typically structural to houses of this type. It's not easy to blow them out.

Have you run any of your ideas past an engineer or a builder? You will need to do this. The structural features may not support a second story in the attic spaces without significant foundation and beam work. This can be expensive.

If it were me, and I were doing a complete blow out of the structure, I would make larger center entry with staircase and a flow through dining room at the back of the house so that the center feature is retained after a fashion. Then, I would place each of the rooms to radiate off of that wider, newly created central hall.

I've lived in classic center hall homes. They can be delightful. I mean this kindly when I say that you need to engage an architect with experience in historic renovations to space plan this better. You did a good enough job for a layman, but it could be so much better.

Make yourself a "circle" of about 3.5' = 4' in diameter and "walk" around.

Just because you have removed the hallway, does not mean the purpose is no longer there - it's just cutting into your kitchen / living / dining rooms - making them much smaller. Also - if you have a relative with mobility issues, you will need those clearer aisles and pathways. Right now, I see what will feel like an uncomfortable narrowing of the public spaces.

You should consider an architect versed in remodels of older homes. I totally get wanting to make it work for the way you live, and live today.

Here's what Janni and I have been trying to explain. What I did in the first version is show you your pathways through the house using your plan. Notice how you now have to go through the kitchen and dining room just to get to the back of the house?

Notice how it's more like one of those games you used to play where you had to draw a line to find your way out of the maze?

I opened up the living/dining/kitchen and opened them to the hallway too so it feels even larger in space in the public spaces. Made your Mom's room larger and added those closets like discussed with built in doors, etc. Not those old sliding disgusting doors.

Did the same with your room and built in closets.

Notice how now as you move throughout the house it's not a maze like structure?

Those folks 100+ years ago got a lot of things wrong because they didn't have the science we have now, but they did get lots more right. Flow being one of them. And getting the most out of the spaces that are there.

Here is what we're trying to explain when it comes to closets.

And looking at my version, a powder room could be added where Mom's bathroom is on the hall side since the room is 13' long. Take off 6" for a wall and that leaves you with 12'6".

Mom's bathroom can comfortably be 8' long x 6' long which would allow for a powder room that is 6' long x 4'6".

I find a wall of closets as pictured by cpartist a more elegant solution to storage than a walk-in. It's a small footprint that offers a lot of functionality. Well-planned storage in a bedroom allows you to pare down the furnishings in the room to essentials: a bed and nightstands. Look at the back room in your revised layout: is that really functional? There seems to hardly be any room for the door from the mudroom to open. The word that came to mind when I saw your revised layout was "congested". I'm sure you can improve on it.

In a city house, I'd definitely want the master away from the street/traffic side of it. Placing that desk and computer center in front of the street side window doesn't work well from a design stand point; especially since you have a nice stretch of wall for it between the windows on the right side. With the 4-chair arrangement, I assume this to be a giant monitor on which you can watch TV/video, while having a work station too. Looks like you may have plans for a striking chandelier above the coffee table there, but it won't be admired through the window due to the monitor (if I'm reading this correctly.) I don't understand the label in the back bedroom bath that says "living." That back hall and mudroom is a huge waste of space. I would incorporate the mudroom into the utility room, so as to use some of the hall space for reach in closets for a back master bedroom.There are 3 toilets that can only be accessed by going to the back of the house and through the kitchen. Even the powder room is not easily reached by guests in the living area (although you say you don't entertain.) As cpartist showed, traffic flow is crazy in your plan. You really owe it to yourselves and the home to get an experienced professional in to make a plan that incorporates your wants/needs, but don't restrict them to what you have planned right now. Be open minded about what they may come up with; you might be surprised. One of your needs should be to make the house accessible for your parent and for yourselves, since you plan to die here.

I actually think you did well in eliminating the long hallway but agree with others that you need a few tweaks. I think shopping37did a good job in adding those needed adjustments to making it even more functional. I think I would just add even more storage in the mudroom/hall. However, with all of this, since you are drawing these plans up yourself I would highly recommend hiring an architect or engineer to consider load bearing walls, etc. Load bearing walls will have the biggest impact on your renovation plans.

Good luck!

"...This is a 2 person household. One dog. We don't entertain much. Just wanting to see if I'm missing anything. Photos attached of before and after..."

Well...this looks like another of those threads where an OP posts, asking for suggestions and help, only to argue with every response that their posted plan is perfect.

Why bother responding?

Why bother responding?

For lurkers who really do want to learn and improve whatever they decide to do.

hollybar - Great idea! I originally wanted to put one in but didn't think about taking advantage of the current plumbing.

shopping37 - This is excellent advice and I really like what you did with the closet and MB entrance. Thank you!

About storage, one suggestion I have is to carefully evaluate your needs and lifestyle. "Because she has clothes and hats and and and." I understand having and wanting "stuff" but do we want to design our living areas around storage units? How much "stuff" is enough for a person is not a bad question to ask ourselves when remodelling a home. (ETA: To be clear, I'm not being critical about having stuff. Just pointing out that a home remodel is the perfect time to properly evaluate one's "stuff" and storage needs.) You mention refinishing the attic. Perhaps storage for off-season clothing can be incorporated there? Also, in your plan, is there any entry closet? What type of storage were you planning for the mudroom? Have you thought about incorporating storage in your stairs? 20 Under Stairs Storage Ideas

ETA: Not understanding the need to eliminate a long hallway, btw.

Hey Virgil notice the only 2 responses were to Holly about a dog bath (good idea btw) and shoppings layout that is also a maze? It’s sad when folks come here and are so stuck on their plans, they can’t or won’t look at what might be better solutions.

Jason best of luck to you.

homechef59 - Yes the idea of adding the second story has been run by a professional who came out to check the load bearing walls etc. Every piece of molding has been painstakingly removed so it can be striped of 10 layers of paint and used again once walls go back up.

The house is lovely but it isn't quite worth blowing out the entire structure and reprogramming the space. If I were to do that I would certainly do things differently but as it is I'm attempting to move as few walls as possible. All of the fireplaces are staying just as they are.

cpartist - I hadn't considered bumping out the wall in her room. That could definitely work. I'll measure out once I'm back at the. In your revised plan you moved the MB door closer to the opening of the front door and I'm really trying to avoid it unless I can shield it from the front door in some way. In the MB/Bath there is a double sided fireplace where you suggest putting the wall of closets. The wall of closets could work for her space so I'll ask her what she thinks about it. Thank you!

I'm actually trying to be fairly kind to the current structure of the house by not gutting the whole thing which has been suggested by numerous professionals who've come to give me bids etc. Aso, not every house is worth the large investment of a total gut which I don't think is supported by comps.

tartanmeup - Definitely going to attempt to come of with a less congested space plan for the back area. I think cpartist's approach of moving that wall would work as well as shopping37's approach of closing off the mudroom. I'll make a few revisions and post those ideas.

decoenthusiaste - Lots of info to consider. You read the workstation correctly. There's a large monitor at my desk along with speakers/monitors but thankfully it is temporary. Having a window directly behind my monitor is functional for what I do for a living but it will be eventually moved elsewhere. Still trying to land on the best arrangement for the back area of the house. I hope not to die there! LOL I just don't plan on ever selling it.

I REALLY appreciate you all challenging my ideas. It creates internal tension but the resulting thoughts/questions are helpful and I posted here for just that sort of "gut-check". I consider this homework but I promise you I'm going to hire someone who does this for a living and take their recommendations seriously.

cpartist - Notice that I did respond to your suggestions in a separate post. Sad when people are so stuck on their own ego and ideas that anyone else's thoughts aren't worth consideration and theirs must be responded to immediately. Good luck to you.

tartanmeup - Attic storage will definitely help but I don't like walls of closet doors that aren't in separate spaces and because I'm trying to not disrupt any of the walls with fireplaces and I need to fit in reasonable closets and a half bath somewhere. A 54' long hallway seems a reasonable place to steal some space from if it can work.

I don't understand what you mean by "walls of closet doors that aren't in separate spaces". Totally understand wanting to keep the integrity of the fireplace walls. Can't see your fireplaces or windows on the initial plan so my ideas and advice are pretty generalized. I simply proposed "built in" reach-in clothes storage in each bedroom.

Yes, it's a long hallway but as mentioned, it serves a critical purpose: traffic flow. Whatever layouts you come up with, the exercise of highlighting traffic flow on the layout as illustrated above is paramount if you want to end up with a gracious home and not a rabbit warren. Other ideas: research storage solutions for small homes and visit remodelled center hall cottages for a "feel" of different layouts. Sometimes what works on paper doesn't feel right in person. Good luck! It's an exciting project. :)

cpartist - Notice that I did respond to your suggestions in a separate post. Sad when people are so stuck on their own ego and ideas that anyone else's thoughts aren't worth c

My apologies as it seemed like you were responding to only some and not most of the comments. I wasn't only talking about my comments btw. There were quite a few who you didn't respond to.

Ok so then there are other ways you can incorporate the fireplace in your bedroom and bathroom and still get a closet without going into the hallway. If you can give a scaled drawing with all the fireplaces, maybe we can show you some other ways like I did.

Let's see...there are fireplaces which can't be moved... but they aren't shown on the floor plan...

And stairs are required to access the second level...but they aren't shown..

So...how can any realistic space planning take place without this critical information?

It's pointless to try to help the OP when he doesn't even post obviously needed information.

No no more time to waste on this one.