Your island is a barrier between the fridge and sink/prep zone. The fridge is also too far from the sink, and those issues should be addressed before you decide on the location of the ovens. It looks as if you will have a seating overhang on three sides of the island, so I'd move the fridge toward the range wall (see second drawing), so that it doesn't overlap the seating area.

The corner of an island should protrude no farther than 12" into a prep path. If the fridge moves down, you're just at the limit.

If you put the ovens next to the fridge, to the left, you could make one of the pantries a snack/coffee station--maybe with a deep upper cabinet for more storage-- which would also provide landing space for the fridge.

IMO yhis is a design from a cabinet company not an actual KD so maybe start there.

Thank you so much, Mama Goose. I didn't expect such specific and solid advice. Makes complete sense! For what I'm spending on these custom cabinets, they should be laid-out perfectly! Thanks again.

She is completely correct - it is the challenge of a large kitchen. Please make sure you have ample walkways as well . I would look for at least 4 ft all around- a little more on the ref side depending on how far out the ref may be.

Best of luck!!

Yes! Thanks Debbie. The designer actually pointed this out and widened walkways to the "right" width. Now that I'm headed on the wall oven path, it tosses things up in the air a bit.

On your plan where it says "rollouts". Is that cabinet doors? I am assuming it is, and would replace those with drawers. Have you read all the threads here on why drawers are a better option?

wow, strongly suggest you start anew... this is a plan to sell lots of cabinets, not a kitchen design worthy of $40k+ in appliances... you can get a phenomenal kitchen with all that space and all that money... this is not it...

Jane, thanks for the comment. Are you suggesting that something other than the various cabinet types go into that fixed space? How would one make it something other than a plan that's designed to sell cabinets? Would love to understand better.

Steve,

I would strongly recommend putting a prep sink in the island and "break" the kitchen triangle. In a restaurant kitchen, do you ever see folks prepping food in the same sinks they wash dishes? NO. Highly recommend these paperback books on Amazon: Kitchen Design with Cooking in Mind by Don Silvers and Kitchen Appliances 101 by Don Silvers and Moorea Hoffman. Don has since passed away, but the design principles are still very valid. His goddaughter, Moorea Hoffman, took over his business and now runs it as Kitcheneering. She's on Houzz too.

I agree, Vonzie. We've had prep sink in a couple of different locations then removed due only to plumbing considerations. This is a 3-story 1903 original stone structure with "upgrades" done in 1930 and, as you may imagine, the budget has spiraled out of control so many "little" things had to be omitted as $500 here, $1000 there, adds-up. That said, I may indeed put a prep sink in there somewhere. Maybe not in the ideal "prep" spot in the triangle so it could serve as a "bar" or ice sink (I know they are not the same).

Instead of this mess, i suggest you do an L perimeter with a prep sink in the island. If i we’re home i could show you a better layout but i’m out of town and only have my ipad.

I didn't expect to see such heavy criticisms of the layout. I definitely agree with moving the fridge closer to the range or cooktop but generally trashing the layout makes me very curious what alternatives would be so much better than this "mess".

Steve -- Your kitchen is so much larger than mine that a comparison isn't practical. The one thing I saw that stood out like a sore thumb is that a 36" sink isn't nearly large enough if you are doing prep work. 42" is just barely big enough to keep the mess in the sink instead of on the counter.

Thanks, Jerry. That's funny, I was JUST wondering if we really need a 36" sink if we go back to adding a prep sink. Ha. Dang plumbing would just make it a very expensive prep sink.

Steve - I've had that Rachiele sink for over two years now, and it's a real pleasure to use. I've never had to do more than dust the counter or wipe up the occasional water splash. That and the Bluestar wall oven make cooking fun rather than a chore.

Do you have a floor plan of the whole floor? That would help people give more specific suggestions.

Steve, if you decide to only have one sink, make it a sink that is 50-72” wide that has “ledges” that allow you to slide cutting boards, half sheet pans, drying racks et al across it. The cone from a variety of manufacturers. The ones I like are from the Create Good Sinks company out of Ohio. Rachieke is also good. Overpriced, but also good, is the Galley Sink.

The Galley Sinks bowls are way too small to do any real cooking (and there are only two of us). I don't know about any of the others except Rachiele which has been a great and an easy to deal with company. I don't consider them overpriced for the quality and service provided.

Do you have a separate pantry from the pantry cabinets shown in the plan? If you'd be willing to give up the sink in front of the windows, I'd eliminate the sink run of cabinets which then gives you space at the end of the range wall for your ovens. Then you can move your sink to the fridge wall and your workflow would be smoother, with our without a prep sink in the island.

This is the entire 1st floor. Note that this was before the kitchen was laid-out as it is currently laid-out. Just the original FPO from architect.

What I would do if I had this much space is to put the sink, dishwasher, and fridge close together along one wall and the stove in the island. That would be really functional and will give you a perfect cooking triangle. The way it is now, you're going to become really fit walking all those steps between the fridge, stove, and sink (the alternative will be that you will avoid cooking whenever possible because it's such a pain).

Of course, I'd also eliminate the range and replace it with a wall oven (or double wall oven if you cook a lot and need the extra capacity) and induction cooktop (which is what I did in our kitchen). Once you start cooking with induction, you won't go back to the old fashioned gas cooktop. There are a few reasons for this. One is that a separate oven and cooktop means you can get the best of each (combinations are always a compromise), Another is that you will still be able to cook if one is being repaired, but most importantly you are not bending over to put in or remove food from the oven. This makes cooking a lot more fun so you'll want to do it more often and get more use out of the kitchen. The french doors of the wall oven stick out less than a full oven door, so there is more space in the aisle.

I'd also put in more pantry cupboards. One isn't nearly enough.

I don't mind your plan with some of the appropriate tweaks to fix the function of the design. I would probably not have the cabinet pantries though. I don't care for large kitchens that are too cabinet heavy. I would put the wall ovens and ref as far to the left as possible and turn the rest of that area into a pantry closet with cool doors on it. This will give you a lot of flexibility in storage..

Just a thought!

Personally, I think you have too many rooms in too little of space. If I'm reading the plan correctly, it looks like the Great Room is only about 11-12' by 15', which is about the size of a bedroom. Bedroom 1 is very awkwardly shaped. I can't even wrap my head around the room placements to offer any more advice about the kitchen. Hoping a Pro can make sense of it all, for your sake.

Ha, yeah, you should’ve seen it before this. It was like a funhouse full of rooms and doors. Should’ve seen the 2nd and 3rd floors. It’s a very old 1903 footprint and without going over $1MM and scraping the whole thing, we’re Doing our best for now.

Since Debbi Washburn's suggestion uses the same basic plan, I adjusted the layout, but with the snacks/coffee station still between the pantry and fridge. The fridge/ovens/appliance garage would look similar to the pics in the collage, the first of which is huango's kitchen.

I agree that the bases should be drawers, rather than doors and roll-outs, if that was what was planned.

Amanda's (huango) appliance garage thread.

GW archives--discussions, all drawer bases.