How much money? It would be easy to get a quote on the Marvin’s since you have all the specs and sizes, perhaps look at there Integrity line? It seems that most here automatically bundle all the SP products into the junk category without actually seeing them. Prices on windows really vary from dealer to dealer and brand to brand the only way to know is to price them. Unfortunately I am not familiar with SP and have lingered experience with the E-series and was years ago.

The Aspen looks very nice in the pictures, they also have many glass options , have you put any thought into the glass options?

thanks Todd. Marvins aren't in the running. We have them in our current house in MN (you and I traded comments in another thread) and we've had a lot of rot both on original all wood windows and the 10 year old newer clad ones. The highest end... so I'm one of the few who aren't sold on them.. Great customer service, and we'd use consider using them again if the builder had better things to say about the rep and level of service out there. So, due to time (we have to decide by next week) and budget its E series or SP. I'm underwhelmed by the SP website, so I'm finding it hard to really compare. The bid says SP glass is Low e-366. And the Andersens is... well you tell me: bid says:

• Wall, Step Jamb, All Sides, Pine, PineJamb, PineMull, Standard Length, w/Nailfin, No Brickmold, Frame Dark Bronze AW 2604 (VAZ), Sash Dark Bronze AW 2604 (VAZ), Colonial Glass Stop, Zero Vert Mull, Drip Mull,
• Axiom 11 Casement, 2-6 X 4-0, LEFT HAND, MDL, Dark Bronze AW 2604 (VAZ), 7/8" CHAMFER BARS, 1 LITES WIDE, 3 LITES HIGH, BRONZE, WHITE ARLOC BULB WEATHERSTIP, FOLDING W/COVER, STAINLESS STEEL, 2 LOCKING POINTS, HI-PERFOMANCE KEEPER, Anneal, H/A, Insulated Glass, SmartSun (366) #2 / HeatLock (i89) #4, DP POS 30, DP NEG 30, NO SCREEN,

We are going out there to meet with them next week and will meet the andersen rep and he will hopefully have an actual window to show us so we can compare. But I'd like to have all my facts before we go out there so I don't get all "spiral-eyed" and overwhelmed.

Heat lock #4 is a low E coating on the pane that is to the inside of the house. Ths Would have a lower resistance to condensation and the potential to be scratched or damaged from some cleaning solutions . I’m not sure about the 366 either. I would look at the visual transmission and condensation resistant numbers on that unit . That package would probably give you an Enticing lower U value with consequences. Don’t forget about the solar heat gain numbers as well.

Did anyone recommend these glass packs for a reason? I think I would go with a cardinal 272 or 180.

The cladding is not roll formed on the E series. I know why they use I89, but it more prone to condensation, which can be problematic especially on wood windows.

i89 is available on both but I don’t think anyone else here will recommend it. There are numbers to consider other than Low u value numbers, I’d go triple pane if that is prime goal.

this is great info, you guys. thank you! very helpful. I have more reading to do, because I'm not up-to-speed.

RES 3d: sounds like are you a proponent of the coating? And Todd, am I correct in reading that you are not?

I know that the Sierra Pacific package was spec'd exactly like the builder's own newly-built home. I dug deeper into the SP bid and see the following:

• direct glaze plus
• insulated LoE-366 Capillary
• coating 2605
• and some of the say "SIM DL" under the glaze options, but not all

I'm guessing the Andersen's were bid out to try to be as apples-to-apples as possible in comparison to the SP's. This house is in Eagle, CO. Cold winters, lots of sun, hot dry summers. Not a ton of snow/rain (except for this crazy winter). --Think high desert at 6,700' elevation. Not sure if that factors in to what glass get's recommended or not.

ToddinMN forgot to answer your "how much" question. The initial bid put Andersen $5k less than SP with the added comment that he'd go lower to get the business. (47k vs 52k)

The Eagle would be lower yet if you ditched the i89. I’d ask the builder if there is a reason he chose his glass package or just tossing a dart. The SP offers a warm edge spacer , I would recommend that regardless of the glass package. 366 is mostly used in southern climates with sun and minimal heating season. I am far from a glass expert but have a basic understanding, perhaps some other Pro’s will weigh in. I am sure cardinal would be if great assistance as well.

jenjenfoofoo,

Read your other thread as well. Just wondering if you have considered Zola windows. They are based in Colorado. We had looked at them when we were choosing windows. They are European windows so the style may not work for your house, but their performance numbers are great and you could opt for triple pane all aluminum if you are having so many problems with the wood interiors

I've used both brands, but not those lines. Pricing is also dependent on location and transportation costs. Talk to the local builders. Make sure numbers are similar specs. Its really easy to miss a window or a specification and come in low or high by thousands.

lc: thanks for suggestion, but we are down to final decision - it's due on Wednesday. Not wanting to delay the project. Also- the wood rot is here in MN rather than CO -- I'm guessing we'll have different issues out there.

ToddinMN: i've been reading up about your glass suggestions - i truly had no idea about the differing opinions out there around all the different glass options. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.. I'll have to ask them for the reasoning behind bidding all 366. I'll let you know what they say.

We are still struggling to figure out why the SPs are coming in higher though and hoping someone could shed some light on that. We did go thru the bids pretty carefully, and as Todd pointed out, taking out the i89 coating from the Andersen's will bring the price down further. It's just so strange...?

Hard to say if it’s strange since I don’t. Know the pricing on either lines all that well. I do know. That if I priced out Marvin’s here through 3 different lumber yards I’d get three different bids.

If I were selecting double-pane Sierra Pacific Aspen casement windows, I believe I would select "LowE 180 w/Warm Edge Spacer" (U-factor: 0.27, SHGC: 0.43) for south-facing windows and "LowE 366 w/Warm Edge Spacer" (U-factor: 0.25, SHGC: 0.19) for all other windows. The higher SGHC for the south-facing windows would allow the sun to help warm the house in winter which I would consider more important than the window's reduced summertime protection. Both meet the EnergyStar requirements for the Northern zone in which Eagle, CO lies. -- amateur

following

just a quick update after stopping in to discuss these windows at a few places in Minneapolis. Coming away with this: professionals in-the-know like the Sierra Pacific Aspen line *a lot* -- even when they don't sell them!. My take away after seeing them both on the same day, albeit in different locations and not side-by-side: Andersen E's just don't have the same "fit and finish". It's something you can just see right away. It's like looking at a Marvin Ultrex next to an Andersen -- unless I am in the minority, Marvin looks a lot better. We did get shown Marvin's new contemporary line that won't be out for another 2 months - super cool. Too bad that is too late for us. Also fell in love with a Centor XO sliding door. Wow. Very nice.

Anyway...

All three dealer's were not surprised that the SP's came in over the Andersen's. They said they'd expect them to be right around the same price as Marvin Ultrex. --So at least I got some answers that fit our reality. Also: All of the pros echoed what you guys are telling me about the glass (366 vs 272 or 180). I really appreciate all the advice!

jenjenfoofoo did you decide? I'm shopping for windows right now. thanks!

Who is selling th SP’s in Mpls?

Toddinmn: Synergy. Their website is here: http://synergy-trt.com Super helpful.

girl_wonder: We went with the Sierra Pacific. It's incredible how highly they are regarded by people in the business who know all the brands.

I'm having HUGE ANXIETY about the glass that has been ordered though. I'm starting a new discussion to ask about it but if anyone sees it here first, here is my issue:

SP rep (who is apparently new-ish to the business) routinely specs low e 366 in ALL the windows in Eagle, CO (elevation 6,600). He says it's because he needs to hit a better U-value and to prevent UV damage to interiors. However, you guys here on Houzz have educated me to know that there is no difference in the U-value between 366 and 272. Part of the siting of our house was to capture and take advantage of lots of winter sun. Most of our glazing is to the south (followed by east, north and then west) and we have decent overhangs (single story) to prevent harsh summer sun. SO: I asked them to at least change the south glazing to 272. The builder and the window guys seem to think I'm either a know-it-all or insane. So I'm having all kinds of doubts. Most of you on Houzz, as well as the dealers we've talked to say they would put 272 on all the windows and maybe 180 on the south. The rep believes using 180 on the south will change the U-value too much to meet the town's requirements (he may be right, I don't know). He is also telling me that I'll exposing the floor and furniture on the South side to UV damage.

WHAT DO YOU GUYS THINK?

(Also: I feel silly asking this, but: Is it true you can't grow plants in front of 366 windows? or is that a myth?)

1. Browse to https://www.sierrapacificwindows.com/.
2. Click 'Windows'.
3. Under 'By Material' select the material you're considering (e.g., "Aluminum Clad" for Aspen).
4. Select the type of window (e.g., "Aspen Casement")
5. Scroll down and expand 'For the Professional'
6. Select the "NFRC" document type; open the PDF.

Look at the U-factor and SHGC columns under Argon-Filled. You will see that for comparably-constructed windows in the left-hand column (e.g., with the same Warm Edge Spacer), the U-factors are nearly identical while the SHGCs vary a lot.

Note Energy Star Rating Zone column shows the zones for which a particular window qualifies. Eagle is in the Northern (N) zone.

Thank you Lawrence. I've followed your steps and seen what you are describing. thank you so much! I have been so frustrated by the SP site for finding that kind of info! Now I see it is operator error...

So... am I correct in understanding the chart to say that 366 is not indicated for northern zones and is therefore a bad choice? I'd love an opinion: is using all 272 the easiest/safest choice? And: does it make sense that the county would be preventing the passive solar of 180 on the south side (required U-value of .29 I think?) or should I be suspect of that information as well and call them myself for an answer?. I hate being the squeaky wheel in this process, but it seems like kind of a big deal...

You may want to also look at the visual transmittance numbers. The higher the number the more light that comes through, 366 will be more tinted. I think 272 would be the safe choice, picking our the absolute right glass in many situations can be a bit of a black art . 366 may be nice in somethig like a sunroom with lots of windows that can over heat in the summer.

that's exactly where I'm landing Todd. thanks for weighing in. In the other thread I started, a guy said to just go with the 366 since the sun is so strong up there. And while I get that, Im struggling to understand what I gain by doing that, aside from UV protection and too much heat in the summer. AND: I appreciate you saying it can be a tricky thing because I'm finding myself pretty conflicted. (You are the one who started all this, you know! hahaha :) . --As long as I know I'm not BOTCHING it, or making a terrible mistake, I'm fine.

if you’re getting direct sun with not much blocking it Such as overhangs and trees and the windows are large 366 may be the answer. You are st 660O elevation so the sun may provide plenty of solar heat even with 366.. I feel perhaps it would have been easier without my opinion?

LOL. srsly. lol.... No but really: YES to all the above but only on the south side with the generous eave to protect from summer sun. I'm still thinking 272? This is the south elevation:

thanks for all of that Lawrence. I do appreciate. Your conclusion though!! lol. WHY NOT CONCLUDE ALL 272? Not to beat a dead horse, but: The winter sun will be streaming into LR on the south face ... but the winter sun has a lower UV index, doesn't it? So why not conclude 272 due to it's same low U-factor (almost) but with clearer panes and some nice winter SHGC? Most SHGC in the summer is to the west and we have very little west glazing. Or am I wrong about this thinking? As for East and north windows, 366 seems even more odd of a choice to me. (though I concede that summer east face can be intense, too.) So I keep thinking I'm not understanding something about this. Sorry to be so tenacious on this, but for me it's a big deal and I want to understand it. :)

If you use shades in the summer I’d probably roll with 272.

i would have shades, yes. thanks. It'd be nice to put a fork in this so I can stop bugging everyone on houzz... :) I still can't get that stupid picture to post. weird...

Ha! Figured it out!

Annnnnd.... now i have to eat some crow because I was only thinking of LR south glazing. I forgot those box bump outs have no overhang at all! lol.

Yup, I agree that 272 makes sense on all but south-facing windows, particularly since 272 is nearly clear (see Cardinal Glass Guide p. 4). For south-facing windows, you'd trade off more UV protection plus more summer AC (which favors 366) vs. less UV protection plus more wintertime sun plus less tint (which favors 272).

(I read once that unprotected west-facing windows can lead to severe overheating of passive solar houses because the sun can come blasting through those windows between noon and sundown.)

Hey. It’s me again! I just thought a round-up/semi-conclusion to this thread would be nice for anyone else struggling to make this same decision.

Our house will be finished in another month. I went with all 366 windows. The dealer and the builder thought I was crazy for ever questioning it, FWIW.

Here’s my takeaway:

• The visible light transmission reduction is noticeable. It’s not terrible but it is a slight bummer.

• The solar heat gain coefficient is no joke. I stood in front of the giant south facing window on a cold sunny day in black leggings and never warmed up. My black leggings were cool to the touch. A dog looking for a warm spot would be very disappointed with 366 windows.

• That said, I’m assuming it will do a good job of keeping the heat out in the summer.

I just wanted to chime in and affirm that these ARE noticeable things. They are real trade offs. The jury is still out for me as to whether I made the right choice. But I’m certain my furniture and floors will be happy with the 366.

Hi jenjenfoofoo So you went with the Sierra Pacific Aspen Casement 2.0? If so, that's what we just got and wanted to ask you a couple questions.

We did, yes! I found it so hard to find reviews on them! They are beautiful, but I have not yet lived with them so I can't speak to any of the features, etc. We have the top of the line Marvin double hungs in our current house and I'm going to mourn the loss of my ability to wash them SO EASILY from the inside of the house...

@jenjenfoofoo It was really hard for us too. And yes, they really are beautiful windows. Did you go with painted or stained wood on the inside? We are staining and wonder if you have any tips. The manual says to use a high quality pre-stain wood conditioner prior to staining. I'm sure our painter will know but wondered about your experience finishing the interior. Thanks!

Funny you mention that. We, too, are staining. It's a dark ebony - almost black - stain. We had the good fortune of seeing a house with the same windows and being able to say "we want the same interior finish and color. And it's the same painters who are doing it. However, that said, when we saw it the last time we were out there, the color was much lighter than the house we liked. So we are in the process of working that out. I will let you know what I find out.

How are the SP Aspen windows? We are strongly considering them. Homeowner feedback would be so helpful.

I could not be happier with the windows. Very thankful we went with the choice of 366 in Colorado. Everyone around us has their shade drawn all day on sunny days and we have very little heat gain. Anything specific you want to hear about?

Anderson E-series are having quality control issues fit and finish, hardware failure and tarnish etc