After I posted the sauer ruben link above. I found out that most of the book THE JOY OF PICKLING is there. in the upper left there is a link for contents. At least some of EVERY chapter is available. Most of the book seems to be there. But it is the older book with 200 recipes not the newer book with 250 recipes. It is a google book. so it is not complete. It also will not easily be printed or saved to your computer. I do not know how to do either if it is possible. So if they take it down from the internet it will disappear. It is a legal copy with permission of the publisher. It also tends to blank out a few of the first few letters of a chapter. but that is no real problem. So I saved up the link on my favorites on my computer so I can reference it any time. It is really interesting reading and I might buy the newer copy. But it has a shorter section on fermenting. I do not do vinegar pickles. so it is not fully useful for me. also if you click the full screen box. it will get rid of the column on the left. the full screen is the box just to the left of the word contents. Here is a link that might be useful: Joy of Pickling

I've made yogurt since the mid-1970's before switching almost exclusively to kefir about 5-years ago. Here are some hints and tips I learned along the way: 1. You can control the "taste" with the temperature of your milk. There is a window of temperatures when you can add the starter - usually somewhere around 110F to 120°F. If you add the starter on the warm side of that temperature window, you'll get a more tangy yogurt. Add starter on the cool side of the temperature window and you will make a more mild-flavored yogurt. I like tart yogurt when I make it into yogurt cheese and use it for a cheese-ball, but like mild-flavored yogurt when I eat it with granola for breakfast. Use an instant-read thermometer for accuracy. As you already found out, the length of incubation will also influence the taste - short incubation produces sweet yogurt. Yogurt also becomes more tart the longer it is stored in the refrigerator. 2. Once you have your yogurt maker filled and running, DO NOT move it or giggle it during fermentation. That can cause a breakdown in the curd and watery yogurt. Once the curd is broken, it will not set up again. Just as when you mix yogurt with a spoon to liquify it for use in a recipe, the curd is destroyed and will not resolidify. This is more evident in homemade yogurt than commercial yogurt. 3. I incubate it for 3 hours and then check to see if it's set. If it's not set, then I incubate it another hour. As soon as it's set I refrigerate it at least 6-8-hours before using it. It needs to "cure" (set-up) before use. 4. When I can find it (usually at a store 2-hours away and I bring it home in a cooler) I like to use Stonyfield Farm Yogurt for a starter. There are two bacteria common to all yogurts, but Stonyfield Farm adds other bacteria, so I think you get more bang-for-the-buck in the bacteria found in Stonyfield Farm Yogurt when you use it as a starter. They also have a GREAT cookbook, "Stonyfield Farm Yogurt Cookbook". I freeze the Stonyfield Yogurt in amounts I need for one batch of yogurt. When I need a new starter, I thaw the yogurt in the refrigerator and then bring it to room temperature before using it for making yogurt. 5. After using from the previous batch of yogurt for your starter for a period of time, the bacteria will become inactive and you'll need a new starter. This generally happens when you have a batch that doesn't thicken, or you notice it's not getting as thick as previous batches. That's the key difference between yogurt and kefir. Yogurt cultures eventually die and must be renewed, but when you use real kefir grains, they last forever, are living, renew and grow over time to make more kefir grains. Kefir is also made with cold milk out of the refrigerator and incubated at room temperature; rather than all the fussing with heating the milk, cooling the milk, temperature of the milk when you add the starter, etc.... 6. Adding non-fat dry milk powder will aid in thickening, and is especially important to add if you use low-fat or non-fat milk. Whole milk contains the most solids and produces a thick, rich and creamy yogurt. When you use 2% milk or less, adding non-fat dry milk will help replace those solids found in whole milk, or high-fat milk products like half-and-half and whipping cream. When I use fresh goat's milk, I treat it as I would skim milk. To produce an even thicker yogurt, add a package (1-tablespoon) of unflavored gelatin. Mix the gelatin with a little milk until it's dissolved, then add it to your cold milk. You can also use a combination of gelatin and non-fat dry milk powder. I use different combinations of ingredients for soft, firm, or very firm yogurt - rather than using an extended incubation time. Making yogurt with at least 50% half-and-half will also make a beautiful curd. Great for malts, shakes, and other beverages. Using a percentage of whipping cream is great when you serve the yogurt as a dessert with fresh fruit, or use it in a dessert recipe. I've also used recipes that include cornstarch in the recipe, which makes a smoother and creamier yogurt. Sweetened condensed milk for sweet yogurt. Your user's manual will probably have a trouble-shooting section to help you out, as well as suggested recipes for your yogurt maker. Happy yogurt making...... -Grainlady

You don't need a yogurt maker to make Yogourmet Kefir AT ALL, so that should take care of the yogurt maker delemma. Yogourmet Kefir Starter ferments milk at room temperature. Both my sister and I would hold back a 1/2-cup portion from a fresh batch to culture the next batch - and it would work about 3 times before we'd need a new package of the powdered Kefir Starter. Are you confusing Yogourmet Kefir Starter with Yogourmet Yogurt Starter? I sold and used both for years until I quit using them both after I got REAL kefir grains (which last forever). Another good option to use for a yogurt starter is Stonyfield Farm Yogurt. "It's the only U.S. yogurt brand with six live, active cultures, and the only U.S. brand with Lactobacillus reuteri culture." I used to be able to get it 2-hours away so I'd freeze it in 1-T. amounts in ice cube trays. Then I'd pop the yogurt cubes out of the trays and keep in the freezer until I needed a new starter. I'd thaw the amount I needed in the refrigerator, then bring to room temperature just before making yogurt. What beats any of the powdered Yogourmet Yogurt or Kefir Starters all to heck is REAL kefir grains. Check the link below for more information. Why pay so much for something you can often get free (or the price of shipping) and never need to replenish them EVER again. Some advantages of using real kefir grains... (source: "KEFIR Rediscovered!" - by Klaus Kaufmann) -Milk used for making kefir does NOT have to be preheated like milk for making yogurt, and it is left at room temperature throughout the incubation. -You can use almost any kind of milk (cold out of the refrigerator). -The smaller curds make kefir are far more digestible than yogurt. -Kefir contains "right-turning" lactic acid, usually called L+ lactic acid. How turning left vs. turning right makes a HUGE difference not only on the highways, but in your own bodily pathways. -Best of all, the cost of making kefir is far below the cost of making yogurt. The REAL kefir (unlike the powdered Yogourmet version) never dies. Thus, kefir cultures do not have to be bought time and again. Kefir grains are "immortal." Yogurt cultures are merely like "humans," they have a birth, childhood and youth stage, an adult stage, and sinking-towards-death stage. I use kefir as a substitute for buttermilk, cream cheese, sourcream, and plain yogurt. Depending on how long I drain the curd will determine what I use it for. I also use the very important whey as a refreshing beverage, or if you shake the jar of kefir, the curds will quickly liquify and mix with the whey. We consume kefir every day! -Grainlady Here is a link that might be useful: Dom's Kefir In-Site

Thank you all so much. I already see some of my issues. bumblebeez, you answered my question on volume. I see the cost savings when you get equal amounts of yogurt from the milk used. My problem was I used a quart of milk and got only about a cup and half of yogurt. And not very good yogurt at that! I used about 2 tablespoons of dry milk to the quart of fat free milk. The taste may have been because of "incorrect" incubating. Or something else I did wrong. Grainlady, thank you for the tips. I have not checked the temperature in the oven with the light so that could have been the problem. I use the oven for rising yeast bread and it works wonderfully, so....I thought.... will check the temp with a thermometer. Made several other mistakes, I stirred my yogurt as soon as I thought it was done. Did not refrigerate first, just stirred and drained. And lost most of it. Will retain the whey next time. I thought it was good stuff but not sure so I let it go down the drain. Never again! Thanks for the info on using the whey. Annie, I read the "yogurt tread" and that is what got me going in the first place. I did use a fresh organic storebought yogurt for the starter, Stoneyfield, so my starter was good. I also used organic fat free milk. I am going to try using canning jars next time instead of a bowl. Armed with this new info, I will try again. In the meantime, I did discover Greek yogurt and just love it. Seems it is everywhere in the grocery stores now. Publix is even carrying the Fage brand, which I have not seen in this area before. Or just missed it somehow. If I don't have any success, maybe Grainlady will post and tell us how to make kefir?? You said it was easier than yogurt. :) or I maybe I can talk bumblebeez into making for me, I think we are sort of neighbors....upstate SC LOL Will post my results. Again thank you for the responses. Murphy