Lisa, I've been making my own yogurt for nearly two years and I just use my current batch to start my next batch, it has definitely not become too weak yet.

I find that my yogurt gets tangier with each batch, however. I like that, but if you want it milder you may not get that if you just use your latest batch as a starter over and over. At least I don't.

I never bothered with powdered starter because I never needed to. My original batch was just started with some plain vanilla Dannon since I couldn't get anything unflavored. The first batch or two was a bit sweet, then it evened out and there's no vanilla flavor left at all.

Annie

I'm still excited about making my own yogurt too! I'm on my third batch. I have been adding powdered milk to skim milk, and using the last of the previous batch. Then in a cooler for 8 hrs. We really like it, and don't think it's too tangy.

I've been trying different flavorings too. I cooked some apples with a little sugar and cinnamon and like that alot.
We also like it with fresh strawberries and grape nuts on top.

Lisa, what type of yogurt maker did you get, and how much does it make? They don't sell any in the local stores and to be honest I really don't have room for another appliance, so I'll probably just keep making it the way I'm
doing it.

Di

I've made yogurt since the mid-1970's before switching almost exclusively to kefir about 5-years ago. Here are some hints and tips I learned along the way:

1. You can control the "taste" with the temperature of your milk. There is a window of temperatures when you can add the starter - usually somewhere around 110F to 120°F. If you add the starter on the warm side of that temperature window, you'll get a more tangy yogurt. Add starter on the cool side of the temperature window and you will make a more mild-flavored yogurt. I like tart yogurt when I make it into yogurt cheese and use it for a cheese-ball, but like mild-flavored yogurt when I eat it with granola for breakfast.

Use an instant-read thermometer for accuracy. As you already found out, the length of incubation will also influence the taste - short incubation produces sweet yogurt. Yogurt also becomes more tart the longer it is stored in the refrigerator.

2. Once you have your yogurt maker filled and running, DO NOT move it or giggle it during fermentation. That can cause a breakdown in the curd and watery yogurt. Once the curd is broken, it will not set up again. Just as when you mix yogurt with a spoon to liquify it for use in a recipe, the curd is destroyed and will not resolidify. This is more evident in homemade yogurt than commercial yogurt.

3. I incubate it for 3 hours and then check to see if it's set. If it's not set, then I incubate it another hour. As soon as it's set I refrigerate it at least 6-8-hours before using it. It needs to "cure" (set-up) before use.

4. When I can find it (usually at a store 2-hours away and I bring it home in a cooler) I like to use Stonyfield Farm Yogurt for a starter. There are two bacteria common to all yogurts, but Stonyfield Farm adds other bacteria, so I think you get more bang-for-the-buck in the bacteria found in Stonyfield Farm Yogurt when you use it as a starter. They also have a GREAT cookbook, "Stonyfield Farm Yogurt Cookbook".

I freeze the Stonyfield Yogurt in amounts I need for one batch of yogurt. When I need a new starter, I thaw the yogurt in the refrigerator and then bring it to room temperature before using it for making yogurt.

5. After using from the previous batch of yogurt for your starter for a period of time, the bacteria will become inactive and you'll need a new starter. This generally happens when you have a batch that doesn't thicken, or you notice it's not getting as thick as previous batches.

That's the key difference between yogurt and kefir. Yogurt cultures eventually die and must be renewed, but when you use real kefir grains, they last forever, are living, renew and grow over time to make more kefir grains. Kefir is also made with cold milk out of the refrigerator and incubated at room temperature; rather than all the fussing with heating the milk, cooling the milk, temperature of the milk when you add the starter, etc....

6. Adding non-fat dry milk powder will aid in thickening, and is especially important to add if you use low-fat or non-fat milk. Whole milk contains the most solids and produces a thick, rich and creamy yogurt. When you use 2% milk or less, adding non-fat dry milk will help replace those solids found in whole milk, or high-fat milk products like half-and-half and whipping cream. When I use fresh goat's milk, I treat it as I would skim milk.

To produce an even thicker yogurt, add a package (1-tablespoon) of unflavored gelatin. Mix the gelatin with a little milk until it's dissolved, then add it to your cold milk. You can also use a combination of gelatin and non-fat dry milk powder.

I use different combinations of ingredients for soft, firm, or very firm yogurt - rather than using an extended incubation time. Making yogurt with at least 50% half-and-half will also make a beautiful curd. Great for malts, shakes, and other beverages. Using a percentage of whipping cream is great when you serve the yogurt as a dessert with fresh fruit, or use it in a dessert recipe. I've also used recipes that include cornstarch in the recipe, which makes a smoother and creamier yogurt. Sweetened condensed milk for sweet yogurt.

Your user's manual will probably have a trouble-shooting section to help you out, as well as suggested recipes for your yogurt maker.

Happy yogurt making......

-Grainlady

Thanks annie!

Di - I got a Salton 1 quart maker - one tub, not a bunch of little containers. I don't have the exact name here with me, but I think I posted the exact name in the last yogurt thread you started where I got my initial info. It wasn't expensive at all - It was around $22 and cost me roughly $28 with the shipping. Considering I spend $4 for a container of Fage, it'll pay for itself quite soon!!

Grainlady - thank you! You are a wealth of info! I didn't realize initially that the length of time decided the tartness. I just assumed that you needed that long for the culture to take or grow or ferment of whatever it is that it does!

I've been curious about kefir and looked it up online, but it seemed very complicated to me. Maybe it was just the site I found. I bought it at Whole Foods or Wild Oats or one of the organic, health food stores but it was in a flavored drink. It seems to be like a thin yogurt that had almost a "fizz" to it. I would be fascinated to hear more about it if you don't mind posting more info. Can you eat it like yogurt? I'm after a more creamy taste and texture as I'm using it to substitute as a healthy dessert altho I do eat it for breakfast at times with berries or a little honey. I don't mind a little tang, but the stuff I just made is almost inedible it is just SO tangy. Even with some honey in it, I couldn't finish it - I was forcing myself to eat it and wasn't really enjoying it.

Anyway, I'd love to hear more about kefir and thank you for the yogurt info - I'm going to try lowering the temp of the milk more before I add the culture and incubating it for much less time.

I actually had to buy a small container of the "Total" Fage which is very high in fat content as my starter. It was SO rich and creamy (of course I had to taste some of it before I used it!) but it had 20 grams of fat per serving which is way more than I need!! I'm sure using cream and whole milk would make a fantastic yogurt! Maybe for a special treat now and then, but for everyday I plan on using skim or 1% as we use it as part of our diet.

Lisa

Lisa -

You'll find more information about kefir than you ever wanted to know at the link below.

I use kefir as a substitute for buttermilk, sourcream and cream cheese. You can even get it to make a consistancy similar to cottage cheese.

The longer you ferment it, the thicker the curd becomes. The whey will separate from the curd the longer it ferments. You can drain the curd like you would for yogurt cheese. Depending on how long you fermented the kefir and how long you drain it, you'll get a curd similar to plain yogurt, sour cream, or cream cheese.

I only make it plain and use it every morning in our smoothie.

The fruity kefir drinks you can find at stores has little in common with REAL kefir.

You asked about using something like Yogourmet Yogurt Starter Powder instead of yogurt as a starter. It works fine, but it's very expensive and totally unnecessary. Yogourmet Yogurt Starter doesn't have any more types of bacteria in it than plain yogurt from the store does. Yogurt works just as well for less money.

Yogourmet also has a powdered verson of Kefir Starter. It's somewhat like kefir made with real kefir grains. If you want to do some experimenting with kefir, you can try a package of Yogourmet Kefir Starter to see if you like it. To save a little money, you can use some of the kefir made with Yogourmet Kefir Starter to culture your next batch. You can do this 1-3 times before the active bacteria fizzle out. The biggest problem with kefir is finding a source for the grains. You usually get them from another person - they aren't manufactured.

Kefir is called the "Champagne of Milk" because of the carbon dioxide, an effervescent, that it creates during fermentation. There is also a small amount of alcohol that is produced during fermentation.

If you don't like the "fizz", don't tighten the lid on the jar when it's fermenting and the CO2 will escape. Keep the lid on tight if you like the "fizz". If you shake the jar, be sure to s-l-o-w-l-y open it and release the CO2. If you open the lid quickly, you can get a little "shower" of kefir for your trouble. Once you shake a jar of kefir, it quickly becomes a liquid. The curd is easy to destroy.

-Kefir curd is smaller than yogurt curd and easier to digest.

-Kefir is the only fermented milk starter culture that takes the form of ready-for-action grains. The grains grow naturally from lactic acid bacteria, yeasts, casein and fibrous carbohydrate gum called kefiran.

-Kefir contains "right-turning" lactic acid, which is better for you. Yogurt has a "left-turning" lactic acid. This has to do with chemical substances that have the same molecular formula but different physical and chemical properties due to the different arrangement of atoms in the molecules. (For more information: "KEFIR Rediscovered!" by Klaus Kaufmann)

- Kefir is less expensive and less messy to make than yogurt. Your culture never dies (kefir grains) and you need no heat process of any kind. Cold milk plus kefir grains in a quart jar at room temperature = kefir (usually in 18-24 hours - depending on the ambient temperature - slower in the winter and faster in the summer).

When you aren't making kefir, the grains keep in a jar of milk in the refrigerator. I usually make 2-3 cups of milk in a quart jar at a time and make 3 batches (one after another) and then rest the grains for a week to 10 days.

-Grainlady

I use powdered milk in my yogurt but I don't think the dry milk does anything to flavor flavors; it just makes the yogurt thicker. I have a yogurt maker but I don't use it. I use a large glass jar and a heating pad. It works very well for me. Regarding the yogurt starter eventually dies... how long will that be? My friend received some starter that was supposed to come from Mother Teresa. That's got to be a very long time.

Thank you Grainlady! I will check out that site and I'm sure I'll be asking more questions!

althetrainer - I added the powdered milk in my last couple of batches too. It doesn't change the flavor, but it does seem to make it thicker. It's still more watery than the Fage, which is what I'm trying to recreate, but it's not that watery that I'm not happy with it. As I keep saying, for the amount of money I'm saving making it myself, I can deal with it a little thinner! And I thought of using a heating pad, but I'm so paranoid about starting a fire - I wanted something I could leave running overnight or when I left for work that I didn't have to worry about.

btw - my second batch that I only incubated 5 hours was MUCH less tangy than the first batch that I did for 8. So I think I'm going to reduce it to 4 hours and if it sets up, even 3 hours and see what those are like.

Lisa