"Hi Anthem, and Happy 4th!" Same to you. "You don't know how much money I have. I have a lot." Good for you. All relative I guess. Glad you have a lot, buf if you have a lot, why do you fret over supporting other people ? If you have a "lot" why don't you give away most of it to the beggars with sores that seem to be so important to you ? Why are you asking others to forgo their desires when you yourself have "a lot" ? "You don't know what kind of house I can afford." You are correct. Nor did I ask or care to really know. "Maybe nicer than yours!" To each their own. Again subjective, but I seriously doubt it. "My reasoning has nothing to do with "libertarian" principles." Good. "You don't sound like a libertarian BTW you sound like a Republican" OK. . . So what difference does what I sound like ? I never said I was a libertarian, democrat, or Republican. What relevance does my political leanings have ? "...if only these terms weren't so boring and narrow. I'm an unaffiliated voter myself." Good for you, but I fail to see why that has any relevance or why you it enters this discussion. "I think you lack imagination. I don't believe humans cause global warming but I do believe in finite resources." Finite resources, yes. Humans don't cause global warming ? You're kidding right ? Maybe not directly but absolutely indirectly. Without humans, there wouldn't be anywhere near the carbon footprint that we have now. "My objection to the OPs post wasn't actually related to his elaborate (and evidently dysfunctional) wiring scheme, but to his personal environmental footprint. Try really hard to imagine the moment when technology development stops keeping up with rampant overconsumption of non-replenishable resources." rileysmom, your stated immoral objections have been noted before. It appears that anyone who spends (or apparently capable of spending) more than what you think is a reasonable amount is immoral - and that you feel the need to tell others that their are needy people in the world. I'm not sure it has to do with environmental footprint either as you don't really know his environmental/carbon foot print and/or otherwise. But seriously I don't see your concern for environmental footprint as you don't mention it anywhere. You started off as you did before over the fact that someone else spent more than what YOU consider acceptable and called it immoral. Here, let me refresh your memory "I was wondering: does anyone else think the OPs house is practically immoral? If you have enough money for 11 refrigerators (just had to have each and every one of them, huh?)". . . . Now its environmental ? "If he'd added a paragraph or so about using ICF construction (do you know what that is?) I'm quite familiar with ICF. ICF works really well for "simpler" houses and is a nightmare with more complex houses. Complex houses might be immoral to you, so that would preclude that issue for you though, right? Besides there are quite a few diverging opinions on using concrete and by extension ICF. While less wood is used, it isn't any more energy efficient than a well built/insulated house. I think the discussion of "green" revolves more around energy efficiency than the actual material being used. It's just that people choose to use insulated concrete forms because its cheaper to attain the same level of energy efficiency than its counterpart - but again with significant drawbacks (especially when it comes to flexibility or automation, which the original poster did do (or attempt to do)). "low VOC finishes" low-voc is definitely human healthier, but it remains to be seen if it has any real relevance to environmentally healthier. The majority of low or no voc paint has enough enviro-unfriendly ingredients that no matter what you do it isn't environmentally better. It's just less voc's being emitted into the household. "or even...energy star appliances" I don't know his appliances or items, but usually anyone who is into automation is going to have fairly high-end appliances which almost certainly are "energy star" appliances. By the way, energy star is a MINIMUM standard. It's such a poor standard that I am not even going to get into it. It's meant to establish a minimum standard so that the average consume shopping for a refrigerator isn't going to be ripped off by an energy inefficient refrigerator. Most anyone who spends big bucks on autmation is going to be buying in the subzero, viking, GE monogram, Liebherr type of level which are all well beyond energy star minimum ratings.. . . "for all 11 refrigerators and 4 dishwashers and maybe 2 laundry rooms) I'm sure his megamansion wouldn't have chapped me quite so badly." And that gets back to the basic question - Why does someone doing beyond YOUR levels dictate them being immoral ? People can spend what they want. If you haven't walked a day in their shoes - why are you calling them immoral for building their house ? Hey, you only need one toilet in a house. How many do you have ? Is it immoral for you to put more than one in your house ? It's all relative depending upon where you are coming from. I just don't get where you think everyone who does a bit more than you, or spends more than you, or is less energy efficient as you is "immoral". "Note this has nothing to do with how much it cost to build and how much it is appraised for now." Not what you said earlier. Should I refresh your memory again ? "Well, I do get a laugh out of something I read somewhere at some time...maybe The Economist? predicting that these whopping huge houses eventually will all be subdivided when the gated communities become the gated slums. Probably this subconscious thought prompted my comment about the poor and downtrodden." I really doubt it in our lifetimes or the next. Most of these won't last beyond a generation or two. And even then, it gets much more complicated with property lines. You're more likely to see teardowns than you will of change of use. The reason you see "mansions" (true sense of the word) in the past being used for multi-tenant is in high-density areas. You don't see today's megamansions in high-density areas. you might call them high-density, but even if everyone bred like rabbits and doubled the current population - it wouldn't change suburban america. Perhaps if you increased the population 10 fold, but we're talking many more generations beyond now.

Joann, bulls can be very unpredictable, I know. I've had some who were so even tempered they became pets, and the one I borrowed from a neighbor last year was named Ethan and developed a distinct taste for powdered sugar donuts. When it was time to take him home, we just bought a box of donuts and walked him into the stock trailer, LOL. HOWEVER, and it's a darned big however, an animal that weighs over 2,000 pounds and can lift three times it's own weight with its neck muscles must be treated with respect and never taken for granted. You won't get a chance to be careless twice, that much is for certain. And that's why I was in the pasture with donuts but the kids were always required to stay on the other side of the fence. Always. Carol, my mother jumped a fence once and it was a bossy old dairy cow that chased her over. Wasn't so funny then as it is now, somehow, but Mother was not happy until that cow became burger so I guess she got her revenge. Annie

* Posted by sally2 (My Page) on Tue, Nov 17, 09 at 20:26 I am getting so hungry reading all these recipes and posts! Here's the potato-fennel soup recipe I mentioned earlier. It was posted on this forum back, oh wow, exactly 3 years ago today, November 17, 2006, by Lynnalexndra. She said in the post that it was an Ina Garten recipe. Roasted Potato-Fennel Soup 4 pounds red potatoes, unpeeled and quartered 1/4 cup plus 2 tablespoons good olive oil 1 tablespoon minced garlic (about 3 cloves) 1 tablepspoon kosher salt 2 teaspoons fresh ground pepper 4 cups choped yellow onions (4 onions) 4 cups chopped fennel bulb (about 2 pounds) 3 quarts chicken stock or water 1 cup heavy cream Pre-heat the oven to 400 degrees. In a large bowl, toss the potatoes with 1/4 cup olive oil, garlic, salt and pepper. Spread on a baking sheet and roast for 30 minutes, until cooked through. Saute the onions and fennel with 2 tablespoons olive oil in a large stock pot on medium heat until translucent, 10 - 15 minutes. Add the roasted potatoes (including the scrapings from the pan) and the chicken stock. Cover and bring to a boil. Lower the heat and simmer uncovered for 1 hour, until all the vegetables are very soft. Add the heavy cream and allow the soup to cool slightly. Pass the soup through the largest disk of a food mill or chop coarsely in batches in a food processor fitted with a metal blade. (I use an immersion blender). Taste for salt and pepper. Reheat and serve hot. This past weekend I made a different roasted potato soup which combined this cookalong with the squash one. I just made it up as I went along. I made a mistake or 2, but it ended up tasting quite good. One of the mistakes I made was cutting the squash up into too small of pieces. I tried peeling it before roasting, but the scalloped shape made that too frustrating, so I decided to roast it first, then scrape the squash out. Well, it was a pain to do since I had cut it up into small pieces. My goal was to get all the vegetables cut into fairly equal sizes. The second mistake was just not having the equipment. I didn't have my trusty immersion blender with me (we were at our Oklahoma house), so I couldn't puree the veggies. I was never able to smash up the onions, so they remained in pretty big pieces. We just called it country style. Next time I make this, I'll experiment with the size of squash pieces and use a blender. Roasted vegetable soup Pre heat oven to 375 degrees 1 acorn squash 2 russet potatoes 2 onions 1 bulb of garlic Olive Oil Salt and pepper to taste dried sage, around 1/2 to 1 teaspoon or to taste Cut up the potatoes and onions into similar sizes. If you can peel the squash ahead of time, that's great, otherwise, just cut it in half, scoop out the seeds, and place along side the other vegetables on a large baking sheet. Coat the veggies with olive oil, and sprinkle with the salt, pepper and sage. Bake until the veggies are barely tender, around 40 minutes to an hour, stirring them every 15 or 20 minutes. Towards the end of roasting time, in a large soup pan, bring some water to a boil, enough water to cover the vegetables. When the veggies are done roasting, add them into the boiling water. Scrape the squash pulp out of the skins and add to the pot, too. Stir and let simmer till the veggies are tender. Turn off heat and puree using an immersion blender if you have one, or just smash them with your spoon as best you can, which is what I did. That makes it more "country style." Enjoy. Sally o RE: Cookalong #15 ------------ POTATOES clip this post email this post what is this? see most clipped and recent clippings * Posted by lakeguy35 (My Page) on Wed, Nov 18, 09 at 0:03 Nancy and all, glad to see the cookalongs are back!! Lots of great recipes above that I'll be saving and working my way through. I've loved these pancakes for years and finally found a copy cat recipes that I've been playing with. I add at least twice as much onion and double the parsley. Sour cream and applesauce are my choices to go on top of them. Perkin's Potatoe Pancakes Ingredients: 1 cup all-purpose flour 1 cup whole milk 4 eggs 3 tablespoons butter, melted 3 tablespoons sugar 1/4 teaspoon baking powder 1/2 teaspoon salt 1 tablespoon chopped fresh parsley 1 tablespoon minced onion 4 shredded fresh potatoes -or- 2 1/2 cups frozen hash browns (defrosted) Directions: Combine all of the ingredients, except for the potatoes, in a large mixing bowl. Beat by hand until smooth. Add the potatoes to the batter and mix by hand until the potatoes are combined. Let the batter rest while you preheat a skillet to about medium heat. Grease the pan with some butter. Ladle 1/4 cup scoops of batter into the pan. Cook as many at a time as will fit comfortably into your pan. Cook each pancake for 1 1/2 to 2 minutes per side until brown. David o RE: Cookalong #15 ------------ POTATOES clip this post email this post what is this? see most clipped and recent clippings * Posted by wizardnm (My Page) on Thu, Nov 19, 09 at 22:20 Looking through the recipes that have been posted already, I can see that I will be using this thread many, many times. It's a good reminder of some of the very best uses of potatoes. Then I got to thinking that I didn't notice any basic potato salad recipes..... and what potato collection would be complete without potato salad. I also wanted to share a favorite soup, I make a double batch of this and take to my DM in 8oz freezer containers, every few months.... she loves it! I usually cut back the milk a bit so that it is almost like a side dish. Loaded Baked Potato Soup 4 lg baking potatoes, baked (Note: Plan ahead and bake the potatoes when convenient) 2/3 C butter 2/3 C flour 6 C milk 3/4 tsp salt 1/2 tsp black pepper 4 green onions, chopped and divided 1 1/4 C grated cheddar cheese, divided 12 slices bacon (thick is best), cooked, crumbled and divided 1 8-oz carton sour cream (can use plain yogurt) ~Cut potatoes in half, scoop out the pulp and set aside. Discard skins (or make some potato skin snacks) ~Melt butter in a heavy saucepan, add flour, stirring until smooth. Cook 1 min., stirring constantly and gradually add milk. Cook over medium heat, stirring constantly, until thick and bubbly. ~Add potato pulp, salt pepper, 2 tbsp of the green onion, 1/2 C bacon and 1 C cheese. Cook until thoroughly heated and stir in sour cream. Add extra milk for desired consistency. ~Garnish with remaining onion, bacon and cheese. Yield: about 10 cups. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Backwoods Basic Potato Salad 3# cooked and cooled red potatoes, chopped 4 hard boiled eggs, chopped 2 lg stalks of celery, chopped 6 green onions, chopped ¼ C sweet pickle relish Dressing 1½ C Hellman's (Best Foods) mayo 1 tsp celery seed 1 Tbsp vinegar 1 Tbsp sugar ½ tsp garlic powder 1 tsp salt ½ tsp pepper 1 tsp dry mustard Combine dressing ingredients and toss with potato mixture. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Backwoods Deli Style Potato Salad 3# red potatoes, cooked, cooled and chopped 2 stalks of celery, chopped 6 green onions, chopped ½ C chopped red pepper ½ C thin sliced radishes Dressing 1½ C Miracle Whip 2 Tbsp vinegar 2 Tbsp sugar 1 tsp celery seed 1-2 Tbsp prepared mustard Combine dressing ingredients and toss with potatoes and vegetables. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Blue Cheese Potato Salad 3# cooked red potatoes, cooled and chopped ¼ C dry white wine ½ tsp salt ¼ tsp pepper ½ C mayo (Hellman's) ½ C sour cream 1½ Tbsp Dijon mustard 4 oz. blue cheese, crumbled 3 green onions, chopped fine 1 C coarsely chopped celery In a large bowl combine potatoes, wine, salt and pepper. Let sit until the wine is absorbed by the potatoes, about 30 minutes. Combine mayo with remaining ingredients. Add to potatoes and stir well. Allow about 30 minutes for flavors to combine before serving. This blue cheese salad is great with a good steak or grilled tenderloin. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Ranch Potato Salad 3# cooked red potatoes, cooled and chopped 5-6 green onions, chopped 6-8 slices bacon, cooked and crumbled ½ C shredded cheddar cheese 1 envelope dry ranch dressing mix 1½ C Hellman's Mayo (sometimes I use part sour cream if I have it on hand) Toss together the potatoes, onions, bacon and cheddar. Combine the ranch dressing mix and mayo, pour over the potato mixture and stir to combine. Nancy o RE: Cookalong #15 ------------ POTATOES clip this post email this post what is this? see most clipped and recent clippings * Posted by sally2 (My Page) on Sun, Nov 22, 09 at 22:55 Was this the weekend to do the cookalong? Did anybody else do it this weekend? I tried Lori's Gnocchi. It was the first time I've ever eaten them, and certainly the first time to make them, but that was half the fun! I think I need more practice, but DH really enjoyed them, so I don't think he'll object to me practicing on him. I did the sage butter sauce that she recommended. Very simple but quite delicious. On the side, I served a spinach salad with dried cranberries, shallots, shredded carrots and toasted almonds, and a vinaigrette made from Trader Joes Orange Mango Vinegar sauce and olive oil. Photobucket Sally o RE: Cookalong #15 ------------ POTATOES clip this post email this post what is this? see most clipped and recent clippings * Posted by wizardnm (My Page) on Mon, Nov 23, 09 at 1:14 I'll be here tomorrow, to draw a name. Got caught up in watching the AMA awards tonight... LOL Nancy o RE: Cookalong #15 ------------ POTATOES clip this post email this post what is this? see most clipped and recent clippings * Posted by wizardnm (My Page) on Mon, Nov 23, 09 at 10:45 Just drew a name.... Sherrman....hope you check this thread! Please pick a new topic and post it here asap. I'll be checking. Nancy o RE: Cookalong #15 ------------ POTATOES clip this post email this post what is this? see most clipped and recent clippings * Posted by wizardnm (My Page) on Mon, Nov 23, 09 at 12:03 TTT so Sherrman can see :) o RE: Cookalong #15 ------------ POTATOES clip this post email this post what is this? see most clipped and recent clippings * Posted by chase (My Page) on Mon, Nov 23, 09 at 13:42 I'm way late posting but ;last night I made Potato and cheese pierogi for the cook a long. Sauted the pierogi in butter and onion after boiling. Served with cabbage roll's, sour cream and sauerkraut. It was so good! Can't wait to hear what Sherrman has up her sleeve! o RE: Cookalong #15 ------------ POTATOES clip this post email this post what is this? see most clipped and recent clippings * Posted by annie1992 (My Page) on Mon, Nov 23, 09 at 14:40 Sharon, I'm late too. I was in Toledo, Ohio, I took my mother to the library there to do her geneology stuff, she was looking for birth/death/marriage records, etc. Anyway, while I was at Elery's I made potato bread using the King Arthur Flour recipe. I made it Friday evening and baked it on Saturday to take to Mom's cousin for dinner on Saturday night. I forgot my camera, so no pictures, but here's the recipe: Potato Bread 1 tablespoon dry yeast 9 tablespoons (1/2 cup plus 1 tablespoon) granulated sugar 1 1/2 cups lukewarm (110°F) potato water (water in which potatoes have been cooked) 3/4 cup (1 1/2 sticks) butter, softened 1 1/2 tablespoons salt 2 eggs 1 cup mashed potatoes (5 small potatoes, 2 medium or 1 large) 6 cups (approximately) King Arthur Unbleached All-Purpose Flour Boil unskinned potatoes until easily pierced with the tip of a knife. Remove potatoes from water (reserving water), and let sit till they're cool enough to handle. Peel potatoes and mash them. Set aside. Dissolve yeast and 1 tablespoon of sugar in lukewarm potato water. Beat in butter, remaining 1/2 cup sugar, salt, eggs and potato. Stir in enough flour to make a dough suitable for kneading. Turn dough onto a lightly floured work surface and knead until smooth and elastic, about 10 minutes. Or, knead in a mixer equipped with a dough hook for 5 minutes, or in a food processor for 90 seconds to 2 minutes. Place kneaded dough in a greased bowl, turning to coat all sides. Set bowl in the refrigerator overnight; for maximum flavor, we like to refrigerate it for about 16 hours. Remove dough from refrigerator and shape to fit 3 medium-sized (8 1/2 x 4 1/2-inch) loaf pans, or 1 medium-sized and 1 large (10 x 5-inch) loaf pan, or 8 mini (6 x 3 1/2-inch) loaf pans. Let rise until doubled in bulk, about 4 hours (remember, dough is cold from refrigerator, and will take longer to rise). Bakes loaves in a preheated 375°F oven for 45 minutes, or until bread tests done. Remove from oven and cool on a wire rack. Annie o RE: Cookalong #15 ------------ POTATOES clip this post email this post what is this? see most clipped and recent clippings * Posted by wizardnm (My Page) on Mon, Nov 23, 09 at 19:59 TTT...still waiting for Sherrman.. o RE: Cookalong #15 ------------ POTATOES clip this post email this post what is this? see most clipped and recent clippings * Posted by wizardnm (My Page) on Tue, Nov 24, 09 at 7:07 TTT o RE: Cookalong #15 ------------ POTATOES clip this post email this post what is this? see most clipped and recent clippings * Posted by sally2 (My Page) on Tue, Nov 24, 09 at 9:44 Annie, I'm glad you posted that potato bread recipe, because when I made the gnocchi, I boiled one too many potatoes. They were very large, so I decided I didn't need 3. I'm wanting to make potato bread with the 3rd potato. Thanks. Sally o RE: Cookalong #15 ------------ POTATOES clip this post email this post what is this? see most clipped and recent clippings * Posted by wizardnm (My Page) on Tue, Nov 24, 09 at 12:03 I have to go out for the rest of the day but I'll check back this evening. Sherrman......where are you???? Nancy o RE: Cookalong #15 ------------ POTATOES clip this post email this post what is this? see most clipped and recent clippings * Posted by wizardnm (My Page) on Tue, Nov 24, 09 at 23:23 TTT o RE: Cookalong #15 ------------ POTATOES clip this post email this post what is this? see most clipped and recent clippings * Posted by wizardnm (My Page) on Wed, Nov 25, 09 at 11:48 Sherrman? o RE: Cookalong #15 ------------ POTATOES clip this post email this post what is this? see most clipped and recent clippings * Posted by kathleen_li (My Page) on Wed, Nov 25, 09 at 15:37 I bought a 50 lb bag of potatoes at the farm and I have been trying to find 50 ways to use them on my blog.. I cut them with fall shaped cutter, tossed them in oil and s and p and baked till browned.. I intend to do them with star cutters for Christmas. The gkids loved them.. Photobucket So many excellent potato recipes from all of you here..thank you! Here is a link that might be useful: LOTS of POTATOES... o RE: Cookalong #15 ------------ POTATOES clip this post email this post what is this? see most clipped and recent clippings * Posted by woodie2 (My Page) on Wed, Nov 25, 09 at 17:29 Kathleen - they're beautiful! What a cool idea. o RE: Cookalong #15 ------------ POTATOES clip this post email this post what is this? see most clipped and recent clippings * Posted by sally2 (My Page) on Thu, Nov 26, 09 at 8:02 How cute! I can't imagine trying to use up 50# of potatoes before they start growing. I see you don't have the limited imagination I do. Sally

I found this site by accident, looking up the spelling of Andre Gromeko's name---what a pleasure! My two cents are: Daniel Radcliffe as Harry Potter? Not if you 've read the books, I say. I don't think Daniel gets even close to the character that Rowling conceived. Nor does the child who plays Hermione. The Ron Weasley actor, though, I think is the best of the three. Someone from England asked if we Americans notice the accent issues in movies. Remember Meryl Streep and Robert Redford in Out of Africa? Streep, as usual with her wonderful ear for accents, maintained her British personna throughout. Redford, on the other hand, started out with a semblance of an accent, but this deteriorated quickly until he just seemed to sort of give up, and just spoke pure American. If you want to hear an amazing accent, watch Tommorow, a movie starring Robert Duvall. He takes on a backwoods accent and voice that are just astonishing. I agree with those who say that watching the movie after reading the book can be disappointing. Now and then, there are some movie makers who captured the real nature and tone and voice of the book, and even if they have to cut a lot, it doesn't lose the feel of the book. One such, I think, was Prince of Tides. The movie left out probably 2/3s of the book, and Barbra Streisand, with her self-beloved long fingernails, wasn't the ideal psychiatrist. But nevertheless, the movie, i thought, captured the tone of the book very well. I agree that Glenda JAckson was one of the best Queen Elizabehts, and that Maggie Smith absolutely is Miss Brodie. Also that Richard Harris was a wonderful Professor Dumbledore, while Michael Gambon--who is a terrific actor; see The Singing Detective and The Butcher, the Thief, His Wife and her Lover--is just not the kindly, deep, thoughtful Dumbledore at all. Another case of one wondering What the Director Was Thinking.