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jay6a

This Year's New Natives

Jay 6a Chicago
3 years ago
last modified: 3 years ago

We want to start over, get back to nature, reconnect with the planet, restore paradise! We have destroyed far too much native lands to the detriment of every other living species we share this planet with! It's time to offer our personal properties back to the wildlife and make them full of native plants so the species will return once again. That's what's happening here. A lot of native seeds have been sown and will soon be grown. Anyone please feel free to enhance the conversation. Trading is welcome. I still have a lot of leftover seeds. The story continues. At present all of the seeds have been winter sown and are chilling outside. Things will start moving quickly once germination occurs. I'm not perfect. I misspell words, use wrong Latin names, talk about species that don't exist lol, typos, ect, ect. Please be patient! The drama continues!

Comments (474)

  • Jay 6a Chicago
    Original Author
    3 years ago


    I'm growing the native Acalypha 3 seeded mercury. It's growing itself. I didn't plant it. It seems to be a good host plant for flea beetles.

    I'd like to grow Euphorbia corrolata sometime. Just not now lol!

    The native wild poinsettia. I was thinking about growing it but was warned that it's very invasive.


    Euphorbia marginata, snow on the mountain. I tried it years ago. I prefer the corollata.

  • Jay 6a Chicago
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    Usually I hear the hop tree being called a wafer ash.

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  • Skip1909
    3 years ago

    I saw Euphorbia corrolata mentioned while I was reading before and had to ask about them here. I've never noticed any of these plants in nurseries or catalogs before.

    I just ordered a couple used books:

    A Practical Guide to Prairie Reconstruction by Carl Kurtz, and

    The Tallgrass Restoration Handbook: For Prairies, Savannas, and Woodlands by Packard, Stephen [Editor] and Mutel, Cornelia F. [Editor]

    Have you guys read or or browsed these?

    Jay 6a Chicago thanked Skip1909
  • Skip1909
    3 years ago

    Another plant to add to your low grow lawn

    Houstonia caerulea Azure bluets

    Jay 6a Chicago thanked Skip1909
  • Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)
    3 years ago

    I have not read these books, will look them up. A lot of my books are more about who lives in my garden. Like Feed the Bees, Plants for Native Pollinators, Gardening for the birds. Should widen my horizon.

    Jay 6a Chicago thanked Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)
  • Skip1909
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    These books are probably beyond the scope of what most of we homeowners want to try. They are geared toward professionals, but I find the topics and methods interesting nonetheless.

    The site prep, species mix, planning, follow up maintenance, and patience might be more demanding than your regular lawn, and are probably best left to professional to figure out, but eventually should require less weeding and mowing.

    Site prep is actually similar to or less than a lawn renovation because you wont be bringing in topsoil, organic matter, tilling, or irrigating after you kill the old lawn.

    There are examples of lawn alternative installations from Connecticut, Massachusetts, NY and Maryland, often adjacent to woodlands and in various soils ranging from heavy and fertile to sandy and infertile, from small area to hundreds of acres. Its not just something for dry climates or small intensely managed plots.

    Jay 6a Chicago thanked Skip1909
  • Jay 6a Chicago
    Original Author
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    I didn't know Rubiaceae was in the Gentianales. There is a coffee, bluet, mlkweed connwction. I have so many new ground covering plants I'm wondering why I didn't lose the lawn long ago. A counter temptation. This nursery does sell many aliwn medicinals but they alao have rare some

    species of natives that are hard to find anywhere else. I'm happy you decided to keep some dock plants Iris. You are going to keep Miss Sherry very busy lol!


    https://www.crimson-sage.com/

  • Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)
    3 years ago

    Ha ha. I unearthed this tiny one last week. Not even going to try to figure it out right now.

    How come there are still seed catalogs in the mail? Brought this plant back to my mind.

    Jay 6a Chicago thanked Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)
  • Jay 6a Chicago
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    My soil here has been depleted over decades. All leaves on the properties are raked and burned instead of using them to enrich the soil. I feel sorry that these large oaks have been deprived for so long. They are real troupers though! My new plantings will enrich the roots of the oaks nearby. The next door neighbor's yard with all the oaks is covered in spring beauties every spring. They border and slightly come into my yard. I want to start colonizing them. If the bluets like dry shade I might be game lol.

  • Jay 6a Chicago
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    Skip, that one pic looks like your house in the middle of that prairie. Too bad you don't have all that space lol.

  • Jay 6a Chicago
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    I don't see anything that looks like ragweed. The dock is dock. They are both rough and crude. I throw most seed catalogs straight in the trash. I just keep the ones that sell natives or bizarre, cool plants. Michigan bulbs sent me 2 identical ones the other day. Pressure? For a skinny stem with a proto root.

  • Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)
    3 years ago

    The one from today is the Native American Seed one. Going to look at this one more closely tonight. Reading up about the Alien plants and such in there.

    Jay 6a Chicago thanked Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)
  • Jay 6a Chicago
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    I ordered s bunch of seeds from Native American Seed already. They are all sowed. Gaillardia aestivalis, Gaillardia suavis, redseed plantian, American basketflower, Erigwron formosissimus, Mentzelia lindlewyi, ect, ect.

  • Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)
    3 years ago

    Make sure you give me the Heads up when you open up your Etsy shop with all these plants!

    Jay 6a Chicago thanked Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)
  • Jay 6a Chicago
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    I also got a verbena from Native American Seed. It's Glandularia bipinnatifida. They have a lot of Texas natives that I can't grow. There is a similar place called Plants of the southwest.

  • Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)
    3 years ago

    They also have a lot of books for Texas. Like the “native host plants for Texas butterflies”. Wish I could find some books like this for my area. Tried looking up my caterpillar. The only kind of matching image was one on bugguide and it was not identified. Probably not going to happen without knowing what it was eating before overwintering in the ground.

    Jay 6a Chicago thanked Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)
  • Jay 6a Chicago
    Original Author
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    I forgot to say that your caterpillar looks like a cutworm. I just realized that I know absolutely nothing about the moths that cutworms turn into. I bet Miss Sherry knows a lot. When we were kids we would play with the dead giant ragweed stalks. We would use them as spears to throw at each other lol and we would construct primative forts. Of course I was raising Monarch cats in coffee cans while all this was going on. Catrpillars were so much more common back then. The main reason I'm growing all these natives is the hope I might be able to see something like that again! Iris, let me know if you have any problems with pictures. I just tried posting a butterfly pic and it would just keep bouncing back to browse. I don't know how many comments are on here. I'm afraid to look lol. We are blasting out a lot of comments. I try to keep it on the down low lol!

  • Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)
    3 years ago

    Hope it will be a good butterfly year! I found a couple of the cutworms, too. They were bigger though. They were also smooth without the few hairs. And this one had this little dots going on. Who knows? It was really tiny, just about 10mm, so might have some growing up to do.

    Jay 6a Chicago thanked Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)
  • Jay 6a Chicago
    Original Author
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    Do you have any butterfly guides? I have an Audubon one which is pretty extensive. What's the name of that small guide that Miss Sherry recomends? Phillips or something? I'll blow up the picture but from the picture it looked like a cutworm to me. It was the picture itself that wouldn't post. All the others will lol


















  • Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)
    3 years ago

    I have the butterfly book Ms Sherry recommended. Also one of these foldable guides for S.C., a Peterson guide, and 2 big caterpillar books. Would love the owlet caterpillar book, but the prices for the used paperback ones are outrageous. Just came across a picture my daughter sent me last Summer from Peru.

    Jay 6a Chicago thanked Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)
  • Jay 6a Chicago
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    Those are cool. I wouldn't even try to guess. The vegetation down there grows fast to keep up with all the caterpillar predation.

  • Jay 6a Chicago
    Original Author
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    Smilax, Smilacaceae, Liliales. Illinois has 7 native species of it. South Carolina about 15 and New Jersey over 10. A bird brought the seed for mine from somewhere, but they must not be common in the area because there's just the one vine. Not a bunch popping up everywhere like with the white mulberries, the buckthorns and the bush honeysuckles. There is a lot of ground ivy around here but it's more of a nuisance but kind of easy to keep out of beds. I even carefully pulled it out small strand by strand because it was all tangled up with the creeping jenny. Creeping Charly with Creeping Jenny. The creeping Jenny is in deep shade so it won't spread. I had it in a sunny spot once and it became invasive and started strangling the perennials. And brilliant me was using them as an edging, so they were attacking my other plants from all sides.lol. There was one year when all of the creeping Jenny had little moth caterpillars on them. I never found out what they were.



    I have one vollunteer in the back that I'm training up a white mulberry. It would be great if it killed the tree and became a native Smilax tree.


    They are in the lily family. There are foliage similarities.


    These are the reddish looking Smilax tuber pics that I could find on the internet.


    Dioscorea villosa, Dioscoreaceae, Dioscoreales.

    When I first noticed the Smilax, I thought it might be some kind of native yam in the Dioscorea genus. I have a cinnamon vine and the veining/pleating on the foliage is similar. This got me to thinking about wanting to ID my species. There are 21 native Smilax species, but I think the one I have is......


    Smilax hispada, Smilacaceae, Liliales, bristly greenbriar.


    It's called bristly greenbriar and there's no mistaking those bristles. There is at least one other more southern species also called bristly greenbriar. I recommend gloves when handling. The tubers can grow to enormous sizes. So can the Dioscorea tubers. They can get 3 feet wide! I've been searching for the mother tuber for years, yet she somehow eludes me. She's down there because the vines keep coming. I don't recommend growing it. It's hard getting out all of the tuber, and it makes little tubers all along the vines. It can become very weedy in a garden or something nearing invasive if planted in ecosystems it's foreign to.

  • Jay 6a Chicago
    Original Author
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago



    I found another native lily. It's called Aletris farinosa. Funny I never heard or seen it before. I've seen it listed under 2 different family names, Nartheciaceae, and Lilaceae. There is a close relationship between the yams, Discorea and the lilies. You can notice it in the leaves. Orchids have similar leaves. Lillies, yams and orchids are all monocots.



    Aletris farinosa.



    Aletris farinosa. Basal leaves. Maybe one of these years lol! I'm just bored, please don't order this lol! I like the sort of tubular flowers. Why would you want to grow alien bluebells? It looks like it's still winning the battle against the creeping Charly but I'd be keeping it further away if it was mine. I guess that's why you have to watch over the lillies if you want them to establish. If all those nearby seedlings were allowed to grow into taller plants the lily would be doomed. I need to plant the Lilium superbums with a little space and maybe shorter grasses around them. Placement of these native lilies requires some thought.


    Lilium michiganense



    Lilium superbum



    Chamaelirium luteum


    Streptopus lanceolatus.


    Polygonatum biflorum


    Polygonatum pubescens

  • Jay 6a Chicago
    Original Author
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    These milkweeds are being grown for climate change experiments. None are native to Illinois but they are some cool species that I might be able to pull off growing. The humistrata will probably have to be taken inside in winter. It was easier to find seeds for these than for the 4 native Illinois milkweeds I'm still looking for. I was hoping my Gomphocarpus cancellatus would grow and flower and produce seeds, but they still haven't germinated. They were going to be a cash crop because the seeds are very, very rare lol!


    Asclepias humistrata


    Asclepias latifolia


    Asclepias cordifolia


    Asclepias arenaria


    Asclepias asperula


    Asclepias hallii


    Asclepias oenotheroides


    Asclepias pumila

    Hopefully the Monarchs will find something to their liking.

  • Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)
    3 years ago

    Wow, that’s a lot to read up on. I hope my latifolia is coming back. Can’t imagine it liking a wet winter like this.

    Jay 6a Chicago thanked Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)
  • Jay 6a Chicago
    Original Author
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago



    I was looking at Rumex species on bonap and there are a few native to South Carolina, but in the color code there are bright pink spots meaning that the species are spreading aggresively in that area. South Carolina has a lot of pink spots, I don't know if it's from all the rain or what? The Rumex altissimus, which I think you might have, has a lot of pink spots in South Carolina. There is a species Rumex floridanus that is native to South Carolina that doesn't have any pink spots. I also read that Rumex floridanus was considered by some to be a subspecies of Rumex verticillatus. Verticillatus has a few pink spots in SC. ???? You can't find a good picture of R. floridanus online, mostly dried plant specimens. I'm thinking it's rare. I'm going to deadhead my pale dock.


    Rumex verticillatus

    Rumex floridanus

  • Skip1909
    3 years ago

    Cutting back the dock when its flowering is a good idea to control the spread. It grows back quickly enough, and repeatedly, to provide new leaves for caterpillars.

    After ripping out like 500sq ft of vines and digging out more shrubs yesterday Im a little scared to see how many weed seeds, including dock, sprout now.

    I have 3 whole weekdays off in April to continue eradicating invasives in my yard!

    Jay keep the Gomphocarpus around. Maybe they are like common milkweed and take a long time to sprout. I wintersowed my common milkweed seeds last year and none of them sprouted until late June!

    Jay 6a Chicago thanked Skip1909
  • Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)
    3 years ago

    My whole yard is probably a bright pink spot! I dug up a lot of violets this winter, but you can’t even tell. Like to leave some, since it seems the variegated Fritillary prefer it to the passion vine, but that’s a bit too much.

    Jay 6a Chicago thanked Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)
  • Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)
    3 years ago

    Skip, 500 sq ft? You are on a roll!

    Jay 6a Chicago thanked Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)
  • Jay 6a Chicago
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    Skip, I thought you wanted to ID that vine you thought was a Smilax? If it's just a seedling it might be too early to tell. I don't recall ever seeing any large Smilax vines that were growing up trees in the wild. I think they are native so they must have a place. And people obsess over one boring species the day lily when there are all these gorgeous, off the hook native species to grow that evolved here!

    Iris, what kind of violets do you have? There are so many native species. I'm not going down the 'grow all the native violets road' anytime soon lol. I'll have an update on the seedlings later.

  • Jay 6a Chicago
    Original Author
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    Yeah, Skip, what's got into you lol! 500 square feet....woh! I want to see the heap of dead carcases. This nursery in North Carolina sells Asclepias rubra and lanceolata. They are currently out of stock, but I don't think they have the new plants ready yet. I myself won't be getting them because I have enough milkweeds and they won't do well in my area. But if they are native to your area.....:)

    https://www.growingwildnursery.com/

  • Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)
    3 years ago

    The purple ones and the purple/ white ones. I have never planted them on purpose.

    Jay 6a Chicago thanked Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)
  • Jay 6a Chicago
    Original Author
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    There are so many species of purple violets. IDing it will take time. I have a wild one with similar flowers. The foliage might be different. You can see it better if you blow the picture up.


    A mish mash of natives and aliens. Now, with all these new natives, big changes will be happening. The dry shade of an old cottonwood.


    http://dyckarboretum.org/three-native-sedges-made-shade/

  • Skip1909
    3 years ago

    Weird, I posted pictures yesterday but I just deleted it now because apparently you couldnt view it.

    Unknown vine:

  • Skip1909
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    Clearing continues... this is the area where I will plant white snake root, sedge, shade grasses and anything else that is deer and black walnut resistant.


    I was especially happy to get all the vines out from between those little Prunus saplings.

    Jay 6a Chicago thanked Skip1909
  • Jay 6a Chicago
    Original Author
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    It looks awesome. Starting to look more spacious. You're going to need a lot of plants to fill all that. Did you cut the logs? The tuber looks weird. It could be a Smilax, I'm not sure. The vines themselves could be Smilax. The leaves are hard to ID. Usually Smilax leaves have 4 main veins that run from bottom to top. I'm not seeing them in the leaves in your hand. Here's a few pics.


    A Smilax leaf showing main veins.


    The tubers can be round.


    Dried Smilax leaves still displaying main veins.


    Topic change, this is the Thyris Moth. It feeds on species of Houstonia, ( bluets ). The Houstonia caerulea is nice, but it only naturally occurs in the southern tip of Illinois. Don't think it would do well here. There's sort of a microclimate down there caused by the winding around of the Mississippi river.


    Thyris Moth

  • Jay 6a Chicago
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    Maybe in Smilax seedlings those veins aren't as pronounced.






  • Skip1909
    3 years ago

    I cut the logs a different day but everything piled between them is from the last 3 vine pulling sessions.

    I agree about the leaf veins on my plant not matching smilax but I cant figure out what else it would be. Smilax is very common around here.

    Im tempted to order Houstonia caerulea seeds on etsy.

    Jay 6a Chicago thanked Skip1909
  • Jay 6a Chicago
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    Did you see what that vine looked like when it was green? Just making sure you didn't dig up a priceana tuber lol. The Cunila is for dry shade. I'm wondering if any plant can handle the dry shade around the cottonwood tree, but I'm going to experiment with a few natives once I dig the Hostas and other aliens out. I think I have enough Carex species for now, but I'll be looking at any that like dry shade. If the vine isn't a Smilax then I have no idea what it could be either?

  • Jay 6a Chicago
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    Iris, there are 31 species of Viola native to South Carolina. Something was eating mine bad a couple years ago but I never saw any cats.

  • Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)
    3 years ago

    Dang, I see the vine, but not the cleaned up area. Don’t tell me it is happening again. Sure it looks great though.

    Jay 6a Chicago thanked Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)
  • Jay 6a Chicago
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    There's a subspecies of Asclepias incarnarta. Asclepias incarnata var. pulchra. Eastern swamp milkweed.

    Asclepias incarnata var. pulchra


  • Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)
    3 years ago

    Was there a picture with this? I googled it. Very pretty color. It’s certainly wet enough in my yard. Might get 3 days of just cloudy now. Yay! Does someone sell it?

    Jay 6a Chicago thanked Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)
  • Jay 6a Chicago
    Original Author
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    There were 2 pictures. I can't find any info about it. I'm not even sure what the difference between the 2 is? I was looking at Asclepias seeds on ebay and came across it. I never heard of it before.

  • Skip1909
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    https://putnamhillnursery.com/product/asclepias-incarnata-var-pulchra/# here's a place in Maryland. Izel has a description of it, broader, more elongated leaves, and deeper color

    Jay 6a Chicago thanked Skip1909
  • Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)
    3 years ago

    Thank you, Skip. Wonder what they mean by “available in Summer”. I can plant in the beginning of June. After that it’s really hit or miss. Even with the watering.

    Jay 6a Chicago thanked Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)
  • Jay 6a Chicago
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    I like it. Maybe next year. I have more than enough milkweeds now. I'll still try to get an amplexicaulis plant. There is some pulchra reported growing in Illinois, but it's mostly on the east coast. I looked at all the Viola species native to South Carolina. It's down to 4 or 5 species.



    Can you see these pics Iris?

  • Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)
    3 years ago

    Sorry, Jay, no pictures. Wonder if Dandy can still see them. Depending on how it works out with my wish list with Pine Ridge, I think I am done ordering plants for the Spring. Unless you here put some more ideas in my head.

    Jay 6a Chicago thanked Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)
  • Jay 6a Chicago
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    I'll put a new thread on later. Look for it in the morning. The seedlings are getting bigger. Still no germination on the G. cancellatus and Senna ditymobotrya. I read that the cancellatus seeds should be sown in straight perlite. It also said to use fresh seeds. The other 2 Gomphocarpus species germinated fine. I'll give them anorher week and then I'll start digging. You can get popcorn cassia at etsy for 9 bucks.

  • Jay 6a Chicago
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    I made a new thread!!! This one is cashed!

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