Have you contacted Marvin about a warranty claim? I see sash issues more than frame rot, do you by chance have a lot of interior condensation? Is this issue only at the bottom corners as these pics seem to indicate?

Yes I did by the time my Marvin supplier contacted Marvin I was a month out of warranty.
As you can see on this photo another window in the house, it's not rotten yet but has a gap this is a design flaw and no help from the company.
most of the windows have a slight gap and have a draft.

+1.

Looks like some condensation related issues to my eye as well, but without inspecting them, I can't say for certain.

You might try a humidity gauge to check your humidity, over a period of days. Are you sure, they were properly installed, and flashed, because, it is also possible that water is coming in when it rains, and running down and settling in the corners.

What Marvin doesn't tell anyone is they are MOST LIKELY using pine as the wood these windows are manufactured out of. Pine has almost no rot resistance and aside from balsa wood, is one of the worst woods to make windows out of.

How old are you saying these windows are?

The top picture shows an IGU with a box aluminum spacer, the rest of the pictures show IGU's using Intercept spacer.

Marvin has used Cardinal IGU's exclusively in their windows for a very long time (well over 10 years) and those IG units did not come from Cardinal.

"The top picture shows an IGU with a box aluminum spacer, the rest of the pictures show IGU's using Intercept spacer.

Marvin has used Cardinal IGU's exclusively in their windows for a very long time (well over 10 years) and those IG units did not come from Cardinal."

Oberon - I do not understand your post. You said the windows are all IGUs (insulating glass) - I think you were making a point about the box aluminum spacer vs. intercept spacer, but cannot tell from what you wrote which one might be what Cardinal uses, and how you can tell the OP's windows are not using Cardinal IGUs.

I also cannot tell from you post whether you have concluded from the photos that the windows are actually not Marvins, or whether you have concluded from the photos that the windows are Marvins, but are much older than 10 years.

Shannon,

When Marvin made their own IG units they did use the intercept spacer system, but Marvin hasn't made their own IG's for over 20 years, so I was simply asking how old are these windows.

all the Marvin Windows in the house were all installed about twenty years ago 1998 - 1999. All need to be replaced now. The question is which company windows will be best and last longer then 10 years. Most important part is the customer service. we as customers expect when we buy expensive goods to get the services. Unfortunately I learned not all companies are the same.
In the picture below you can see on the metal foil the date of production.

the first picture was the close up of Marvin Windows the date says 10/98 this is the date of production.

What happened to "within 10 years most are rotting" now that you say they were manufactured in 1998? I will still say you have a water issue with the damage being in those locations and looking like that. And the fact that you have gaps at the bottom leads me to think the windows are not installed correctly allowing the sash to not close correctly. I could be completely worng but the limited info we have to go with leads me in that direction. That being said 25 years is about the typical life expectancy of a wood window, yes even Marvin so you may not be that far off.

Ordinarily I would recommend wood Marvin's if you want wood. Do you want wood again or are you open to vinyl? What area of the country are you in? I would think a higer end vinyl, like an Okna or Softlite. Casements are typically a tighter seal in most every brand.

What kind of climate zone are you in? How many windows?

I love the Marvin product, but there isn't much out there in the way of wood that will give you more than 10 years on the frame.

Are you in a cold climate? Were there any condensation issues?

Since your story changed through this post, it's not entirely clear. But I think your latest rendition said at 10 years you had 4 or 5 windows with the issue. At 20 years you now have 40 or 50. Maybe you should have done a little more investigation during years 10 to 20? Regardless of wood type or density, elimination of your evident moisture problem may have saved 35 to 45 windows. I don't think wood rots in absence of moisture, your large gap on the non-rotted windows somewhat confirms this. The air movement reduces condensation.

Did you ever get some historical relative humidity data for the home? The reason that I ask is that if you are in a cold climate and prefer to keep it a bit on the high side in the home, that will somewhat steer the decision on window frame/sash materials.

Do you want wood? Do you care? Does it just need to be white on the inside?

Let me know and feel free to ping me and I can send you some recommendations.

You should really check your apparent interior moisture issue before replacing your windows. New windows will reduce your air infiltration and you could start to experience other problems such as mold or condensation on the exterior of your water pipes which may not be as visible as the windows. How is your dryer vented?

+1 wood windows. I also have seen plenty of clads rotten. It was amazing to see inexpensive vinyl doing well, and overpriced aluminum clads many times the price of these vinyls ready for the trash.

I have had the same problem. Replaced one set 5 years ago and they are rotten again. Marvin refuses to do anything bout it. They are trash

I have also heard from others that Marvin does not stand behind their product/warranty. I have not experienced this firsthand. East Bay, please note that you could not possibly know what is the truth in these cases.

I am on the West Coast and Marvin has different distributors in the U.S. and they may treat warranty items differently as well.

As far as the comment above from mark1993 that "Marvin does not stand behind their product/warranty". Nothing is farther from the truth. The latest warranty is 10 years on movable parts, 20 years on the insulated glass and 1-2 years on the labor to replace. Usually labor is the sticking point since some homes can take 1 -2 years to build but again I have seen Marvin and their distributor(s) accommodate out of warranty items if it is acknowledged to be a factory defect.

The issues above "may" have been caused by interior condensation and this is not a Marvin issue. The gaps around the window also tell me there may be another possible cause that is not a Marvin issue but what I call "operator error". My homeowner contacted me three years after we had completed his project. His casement windows wouldn't close tightly and they showed similar gaps to the above pictures. I asked if when he cranked the windows closed, he also engaged the side locking handle which may throw 1-4 additional points of contact (depending how tall the window is). I explained that this keeps the casement sash plumb and will minimize trouble down the road. He told me that he didn't usually do that. It was refreshing that he was honest and beside being my client, I REALLY wanted to help him. I completed my report to Marvin including the information that new sash (6 or &7) was needed due to "operator error" and crossed my fingers. They approved the free replacement as I had all the necessary paperwork but wouldn't cover labor which I expected and is relatively easy if you know what you are doing. I told my customer that my crew would replace the sash which he was very happy about. It took about two hours and was well worth the trouble for the good will that it created.

I know that I have gotten more work as a result but that wasn't the reason for doing it. It was just the right thing to do. A lesson to all homeowners out there: be honest with your builder and we will help you. We have seen just about everything and if you are honest, we will go the extra mile to help out. So, if there is an issue don't ignore it as it will just get worse. This is especially true if it is a warranty issue and it happens over and over again. Amen. I will now get off my soapbox.

I sell a descent amount of windows. Marvin has the lowest amount of issues from all the companies I sell. That being said, I have had numerous rotted sashes from Marvin casements & awning dated from about 2000-2004. I don't quite remember as many coming from earlier than that, but it's possible. At one point Marvin got involved with a lawsuit against one of their suppliers due to the issues they experience during this time frame. If my memory serves correctly, it was a caulking manufacturer that let their product freeze... Or something like that.. In any case, I'm not surprised to see this issue, but would not be surprised to see you have no issues with new sashes either. In short, despite these experiences, I still prefer Marvin to any other window brand I've run into or sold.

If you do decide to replace sashes, it is very easy to do. Also, I'd make sure to look to see if you need any weather-stripping replaced. If you have the original order number from Marvin they can order from that. We do not get quantity discounts, so nothing wrong with ordering a few at at time if you are up for doing the work yourself.

Best of luck

It was the wood preservative (Woodlife I do believe) that lead to these issues. Woodlife did nothing to make it right (or next to it), Marvin took it all on themselves if I remember correctly.

Yes!! I remember now.... Do you remember the years of production it affected?

PPG was the company that they took to court. Millworkman is right. It had to do with the wood preservative that they were sold by PPG along with the PPG exterior paint (flexichron).All but one minor part of the suit was dismissed because of the statute of limitations (I think) and they did all the heavy lifting themselves and that is why they had to put a timetable on the claims. Otherwise, it would have bankrupted them and to this day, they are still a family business.

Not totally clear on the years but 1984-1992 seems likely.

I do believe those were the approx years East Bay.

From several sources, including Glass on Web:

A jury awarded Marvin Windows and Doors $135.8 million from PPG Industries on its claim that a PPG wood preservative failed to prevent wood rot as promised. The decision was handed down Thursday in U.S. District Court in St. Paul, and Pittsburgh-based PPG said Friday it would appeal. The trial began last October.

``This is certainly a milestone for us. We are very pleased about the jury's verdict,'' Brenda Baumann, a spokeswoman for Marvin Windows, said Friday.

But Baumann called it only a ``partial reimbursement,'' saying the company has had to spend millions of dollars replacing defective products, and will continue to do so until 2004.

Court dismissed 12 of Marvin's 13 claims against PPG

PPG appealed and lost the appeal.

Here are mine after being replaced once 5 years ago. Rotten again. The Marvin installer said he could find nothing wrong with the installation. The team that installed ours actually went to Marvin for training.

My understanding is that a class action lawsuit came first. which would have meant Marvin didn’t stand behind there product until sued. The homeowners were offered a discount if they bought new windows from them.

I'd Abatron that rot and it would remain fixed for the next 300 years.

Hi, E Weiss,

It looks like you've got a lot of responses to sift through! I just wanted to chime in and ask if you've considered other window materials? I think wood is beautiful but you're right they are pretty expensive especially when you want to replace all the windows in a house or building and without regular/frequent maintenance they won't last long. Even aluminum or fiberglass cladded aluminum windows eventually need to be replaced because water/moisture can find its way behind the cladding.

I think I read that you're in an area that experiences lots of rain or snow? If you would consider something other than wood I would recommend looking for a fiberglass window vendor. A quality fiberglass window can outperform a quality vinyl and will certainly outperform an aluminum window. They'll also last longer than wood windows with much less maintenance. I can't recommend any specific product line for you, we're in Texas and used to sell Milgard's Ultra Series but Milgard was acquired by another company and they've left the state. Milgard may have also stopped selling the fiberglass Ultra series.

It looks like fiberglass-windows.com suggests Marvin, Milgard, Fibergrame, and Pella as fiberglass window manufacturers.

Good luck with your replacement project!

- Ariana

It is a Marvin issue. My casement windows did the same thing. It is in their design. The bottom seals don‘t work correctly or deteriorate and allows cold air and warm air to mix causing moistu to accumulate. disasterous for a home owner that doesn’t open all his windows often. Should be a lawsuit for this one. Their new design is completely different.

For my family's home it was the sills that went, on the Marvins with PPG preservative. Once the coating goes the pine wood inside is soft and quickly becomes sponge cake.

And this in a mild non-freezing climate.

When I built my house 5 years ago, the local Marvin dealer recommended a Marvin brand which was less expensive than their Ultimate brand. I can't recall what it was; it might have been Infinity, but looking at their description, Infinity sems to be fibreglass and all mine are wood. Anyway, they are all wood framed triple-paned casement windows, and I have had no trouble (so far). Like DavidR, my previous home, (Long Island, built in 1895), had all wood double hung windows and only one had rot problems.

Don't wood windows need maintenance (e.g., painting)? In my case, some would be very difficult to paint the outside, being 30 feet above the ground.

Our Marvin Casements DESTROYED the framing on our house, destroyed the subfloor too. We bought the house in 2018 and have been fixing everything we can. Damn windows have eaten up out kitchen reno budget. Still have 25 shitty 6' tall Marvin windows to replace.

Just found these rotting out as water dripped down our new windows below it! Absolutely ridiculous.

Humidity in the home is 30% because the historic part of our house gets condensation on the single pane windows if its any higher. (Even with custom storm windows) But those historic windows aren't rotting!

Didn’t Pella have a similar issue with their casement windows around this same time? Did they also use PPG?