Celeste, I, too, love the purple ramblers..I've got a collection of them growing around my circular arched "Mottisfont" structure. I've got Violette, Veilcheinbleu, Bleu Magenta, Rose-Marie Viaud, Amadis, and Donau!...I think that's all of them that I have. They do get somewhat chlorotic, but I think that's the nature of the plant. I've planted clematis to go up them as well...hoping to hide some of the chlorosis and some of the nakedness at the bottoms. Robert

Oh I couldn't help it to show off the beauty of some of my OGRs. Had I read Anitas original post more carefully - I would not have posted half of them since they are not that unusual or rare. (And inconsiderate of those with slower connections ...) even though we like Sherry never grow tired of good pictures :-) Yes Ingrid all these roses grow in my garden - and grow very well. I also agree - the purple centifolia is really unsual - I love the colour. Mariannese: It was the blush pink centifolia, that I wrote had a compact growth habit... the purple centifolia is like you write more lax and uruly. I keep mine pruned to about 4 feet tall and stake it when it blooms - so the weight of all the flowers don't make the bush flop over. Mine are of course from Ellen and Hugos rose nursery too - I am lucky to live near 2 big rose nurseries - Ellen and Hugos and Knud Petersen - within 10 miles - both have big gardens and collections of old roses - and the Royal Marselisborg Castle is just 3 blocks away and have 600 different old Garden Roses - so I have the opportunity to study many different OGRs up close all the time I wish and pick those I consider the best, most beautiful,most fragrant and have decent disease resistant and growth habit. No - not unfair to show roses only availble in Europe - I have sent plenty of budwood to European nurseries, who exchange roses with US rose nurseries - so sooner or later these roses will be availble in USA too. I also grow 'Serratipetala" - mine is however rather scraggly - even if it aint raining men in my garden! It defoliate almost completely here from blackspot - I think this rose like many other chinas perform better in warmer climates - but the flowers here can become very beautiful too. (I have posted both full bush shot and flower on HMF). Had it been warmer and sunnier mine would also darken - funny how some chinas - instead of fading become darker as they age. I also grow some roses I do not have clue what they are - and that I after 8-12 years still try to identify with no luck - even though I have a photographic memory - I have not seen them anywhere. Most are centifolia roses and HPs. Many 1000s HPs were grown in Europe and most have been lost. But some have been passed on for generations. Their names unknown. If they blackspot terribly or have little vigor I don't want to grow them and they retire to the hillsides around here - and I give some of them a handful of fertilizer in the spring. And then there are the seedlings found in old neglected gardens - look for these underneath or around old rose bushes (they are not suckers) all a little different and I can't help but rustle these and pot them up and plant them all over to see what they eventually become. I am particularly interested in seedlings from repeat blooming bourbon and Portland roses. I also think I need to make a map of all the roses I have planted around here - I have thought of making a map and plot their positions with GPS ... I just have my notes and visit them a few times every year to see how they are doing - they gotta be tough to thrive under these conditions.

If I'm remembering certain things correctly, and if I understood what I read in the first place, the history of what is commonly called 'Hippolyte', is even more confused than that of 'Reine de Violettes'. There was something about the rose that was being called 'Alice Vena' turning out to the same as a 'Hippolyte' imported from Europe, and who knows why they had the names they had in the first place... and currently 'Alice Vena' isn't at all the same rose as 'Hippolyte' and doesn't seem to be the same 'Alice Vena' as was described in that article, and the word 'thornless' is conspicuous by its absence in any of this. It is good to keep in the back of your head that in the mid-20th century, when most Eastern found roses went into circulation, that they didn't tend to use study names, but very badly wanted to connect historical names with living roses. It started with Mrs. Keays, who was dealing with a distinctive enough set of roses that she could get away with it, but when it wandered off to the cold climate once-bloomers, things got hairy. The contemporary descriptions of so many of these roses are practically identical. Gertrude Jekyll, who knew and understood roses, had Village Maid and Rosa Mundi hopelessly confused. You won't confuse photographs of those two, but the written descriptions are a different matter.

The thing drives me nuts trying to capture the glow of the color. LMAO! One of these years I'm going to buy a new camera that does reds well. I still have both of my old Nikons, bought a Minolta that doesn't do rose photos well. Deb's Grandma couldn't even remember when it was planted. KP was there in the 70s is the best timeline we could come up with. It was in a photo of the yard circa 1972. It may have been planted in the 60s. I wonder how true the new bushes are compared to yours. Once I find one I'll have to compare what I see to yours. Haven't heard from SueBelle since right after Katrina. She and Eddie got through ok. Eddie works for the power company and was very busy. That was the last I heard from her too. Wanda kept telling me that our unknown (Desi) looked like Summer Dream and I kept saying Desi had been here too long to be SD.... Deb's aunt was talking about it a couple years ago. She bought it in 86. I asked if the name was Summer Dream. She was pretty sure it was. Wish Wanda would wander in here to tell me 'I told you so'. I tried emailing her a few months ago (most likely for her birthday in September) but got my email returned. I'll have to send her a card one day to see if her address is still the same. Good luck with the move! Thanks Dave. Thought you might appreciate this picture. This is an eight pack of rooted Lucille Ball. I have a few more, but they are mixed in with my other rooted cuttings. Not as nice as your monster plant, but I'm well on my way! btw, your plants look great! I've tried to root cuttings but haven't had luck.