Fantastic! Glad I checked here this morning. As far as 'not as nice as my monster'.... they must be. I can see where they were cut from {{gwi:329939}} I really could not imagine them doing less for you. What I didn't imagine was all of them taking root. You did great :) LOL, I've already decided which rose is getting moved come spring to make room for her. OK, Deb decided but I agreed.

digger

MG -No wonder you said that you don't mind getting roses from anyone
Did Digger gave you Lucille? I think he did. Lucky you!

I agree with Dave.
Yes she sure does look fantastic
And look at all those buds.
Very pretty
Niecey

Wow. Beautiful photo. So just checking, is Lucille a light peach color or more pink ? With that name I was expecting to see a color with more orange or red in it but this is certainly gorgeous. It looks like the bush is a great form as is the rose.

Rosalita,
It looks to be an apricot, though I agree a rose named Lucille Ball I'd expect to be more orangey.

Niecey, Yes I did get them from Digger. Hey, I almost emailed you 2 weekends ago to hook up with you when I was in your area. We have to do a Palatines tour some year together! Are you right in Toronto or outside the limits?

You should have
Had a few days off from work
MG-Right in Toronto
(Suburb)Scarborough
Niecey

mgleason and digger:

Please forgive me for inserting myself into your rose trading/propagating but those little babies are so cute it raised a couple of questions in my mind:

1. Digger can I buy some rose infants from you? Judging by the pictures of you and your ladies amazing garden I bet the possibilities are endless and

2. Can someone suggest a good book to read about rose propagation.

I will ask you in advance to forgive my ignorance on the topic of trading/buying roses via the Garden Web forum. Just wondering what is possible.

Thank you!

Kate

kate,
go the the propagation site here and you'll see great explanations and links to websites from George Mander, who is a very well known breeder in CA. As for the question for Digger, he made me drive to Montana and shovel his driveway for the cuttings. You're closer, so it will be easier for you.

mgleason:

Thank you very much for your time. I will check that out.

As for going to Montana that sounds like fun! Not sure how Digger and Deb might feel about a woman from GW showing up on their front porch however:) I always enjoy traveling to Montana however.

Kate

Kate,
Here is the link to some articles by George Mander. I spent two years working off his instructions and trying to better them, and you can find my instructions on the propagation page. This is more than enough information to at least get you started. I'd suggest really reading this thoroughly, and when you think you have it, go ahead a buy a few florist roses this winter and give it a try. Do not get discouraged! Rooting is harder than it seems, but once you get it, you'll find you can get real good results. I still cannot match george for % success, but I am rooting HT's most of the time and not mini's (which seem to be the easiest).

Here is a link that might be useful: Roses of Excellence

LOL, and Mike did a fine job shoveling the drive. That was wet, heavy snow too. This is as dark as blooms get {{gwi:329940}} That bloom opened when we had a few days of cloud cover. You can see faded spots on the petals where the bud saw the sun. Color does fade in the sun but we like it. This {{gwi:329941}} is the typical coloring of blooms that open in the sun. I was a fragrant red rose snob until Lucy showed me how nice other colored roses can be {{gwi:329942}} That was the flush after the cuttings were taken. Hot weather fried the blooms but she looked pretty good to me.

Mike, how is the fragrance?

Here is a link that might be useful: Deb & Digger's Lucille Ball

Mike:

Thank you for all that information. I began to read the George Mander information last night. I have some questions already but will finish reading first. I would like to try growing some this winter. Very fun! When I told my husband I wanted to try propogating roses he received that information with a look of mild alarm. A new gardening obsession, great:)

Hee.

Thanks again.

Kate

Digger - there is some fragrance, but my nose is generally bad when it comes to questions like that. It has to be really overpowering for me to really notice.

Kate - I have a small section of my basement set aside for cuttings during the winter. My wife was none too excited at the prospect until she saw that at least I picked back by the furnace where I first had to clean the entire area (something she had been after me to do for a few years). I also keep a lot of my young rooted cuttings there.

Thanks Mike, she wasn't very fragrant the first 5 years here and I wondered how the cuttings would do. I sniff at least one bloom on every flush of every rose we have. I would have noticed strong fragrance on her those 1st years.
Lucy rivals Chrysler Imperial for strongest fragrance now.

Deb laughs at me out in the yard sometimes. I told her of a motto someone here posted, "if you always stop and smell the roses... you will eventually inhale a bee". She says it is gonna happen.

digger

Lucy is a great apricot rose in my humble opinion. I have the one bush and it is finally really starting to grow after foundering in a pot for 1 1/2 years where it must have been miserably unhappy because it didn't grow much or bloom either for that matter. Now that it's transplanted into an east facing select garden spot--only the best for Lucy--she has taken off and is starting to bloom pretty regularly. I am very excited to see it's continued improvement every time I walk by that silly rose. I think I am in puppy love!!!! LOL....
John

Hello Kate,
You wrote :
".....well known breeder in CA." I guess you meant California ?

I am NOT in CA, but B.C. Canada.

George Mander

Here is a link that might be useful: Roses of Excellence

Mr. Mander:

I believe you are referring to mgleason's post. He was trying to refer me to you and your page. I did not make any reference to you as at the time as I neither knew who you were or that you even existed:)

Kate

George,
Yes, I am the culprit that put in CA, but I knew you were in CA (Canada). I should have put the BC in front of the CA. Living 15 minutes from the border of Ont, CA, I always shorten forgetting that we have a state with the same initials. Now what used to really mess me up was when the news reported something in Ontario, CA and they were talking about California. Very confusing...

When I was in Southern California in my late teens I was dancing with a guy. He asked where I was from and I said "BC". He said "Oh, Baja California?"
Another one asked if I was English. I guess that is how far removed the Canadian accent can be from the youth's Southern Californian "DUUUUDE!"

I've had quite a few emails asking about these cuttings, and what my process was so instead of anwering all the emails individually I thought maybe I'd just place it here;

I got these unrooted cuttings on 7/5/07. I have an area I use for rooting cuttings in the back yard. Nothing more than a cheapie shelving system with clear plastic surrounding it (to keep out the wind). I use coconut coir for my rooting medium, and Rhizopon AA #3 rooting hormone. I have cheap misters than run from sunrise to 1 hour before sunset-2 minutes on and 6 minutes off. I usually see the first roots in about 18 days, and the cuttings are ready to be potted up into 6X6 containers at 28 days. How do I know I have roots around the 18th day? Because I use clear 2 3/4" X 6" containers.
{{gwi:312909}}

Once they have been potted up, I place them on the bottom of the shelving unit for a few days so that they still get a light spray. I should mention that I use any potting mix, depending only on the cost, but I do add Mycorrhizae to the potting mix. After a few days the containers are placed in full sun and get watered every morning before work and every evening with a half strength Green Light Plant Starter. Then once a week they get the full treatment of fungicide and fertilzer mix that I use on all my roses. So the pictures of Lucille Ball above show the rose 81 days after I received the cuttings. Some do better, and some much worse, but Lucille Ball ran the average for rooting and flower production. Hope this helps.

So much for the myth of Lucille Ball not rooting well!!! I've been looking for this plant for years, your new plant looks BEAUTIFUL!!! Congrats!
Scott

mgleason - These look as good as the Acapella and Crown Jewel you sent me last summer! I had some folks from our rose society here marvel at the plants you sent, and they could not believe they had just been rooted that spring. How can I get one of those LB's?????? Also, I want in again on any giveaways you have planned for this coming summer.

Glad to see Acapella and Crown Jewel are doing well. Crown Jewel is from the UCD FPS program and is indexed as virus free. I plan on doing a giveaway this summer for Bright Delight, which is an exhibition Floribunda from McMillan. Not in production yet, this was a 2005 Bronze winner at ARS. McMillan also bred Affirm and Rejoice, so I can tell you that this one is just as nice as those. If you want in, send me an email. Cost will be just shipping as it was on the other two you got last year. I think about $7 for you. I have about 10 to give away.

Mike:

Will you be selling Lucille Ball cuttings also? They are so cute! I'd buy some.

Kate

Can't do anything since they are protected by patents. I have tried to get permission to just give them away, but they are being real ******! Thats why I stick to giving away non patented roses.

Well darn it! Sniff. Is anyone aware of anyplace to buy Lucille Ball?

Thanks Mike.

Kate

Hey Mike:

I read back on some posts regarding the availability of this rose. And that Ashdown has permission to breed them. Does anyone have any information on when that might come to pass?

Thanks.

Kate

Well Dave, I see you & Deb are up to your old tricks lmao!

One of these days I'm going to actually buy Kordes' Perfecta. I've been seeing it for the last few years at Walmart or Depot, it goes in the cart, then I decide to leave it because the plant isn't the greatest. We should be moving to a new house this year. Either it will find it's way into the new garden this year or next.

Love your Lucy but there's no way I can put that in my garden as it was my mothers favorite show. Too many bad memories right now. I'll sit here & drool over yours as I have been doing for how many years now.... (has it really been that long?)

But, but, but... I have been good and stayed out of this thread since it came back up! Hey Sue :) Deb says Hi. I don't think Mike will mind a quick hijack... do you remember the KP that came up where I dug up the old one? I posted a thread about it at another forum a few days ago:

I mentioned Oklahoma Jr was Deb's pet rose in the Oklahoma Jr thread. You would think Jr would be mine too. I already had a pet rose before Oklahoma Jr came along. Stan talks about a rose's will to live. My pet takes that to an extreme.
I was going to widen the driveway in 1994. There were some huge arbor vitae along the drive and they were overgrowing the roses there. The roses needed to be moved anyway and I could have a wider driveway. Kordes' Perfecta had been there for decades and was a monster. I brought a backhoe home so I could get all of the rootball moved.
I noticed something funny in the arbor vitae foliage in 1999. I thought some trash had blown in and stuck there. I reached in to get it and realized it was a rose bloom. I traced the cane down to the ground. I had missed some root when I moved KP and somehow, someway the critter had grown under those bushes. I cut some of the arbor vitae foliage back so it could get a little sun.
{{gwi:329944}}
I began watering and feeding it once I realized the tough critter was there. I marveled that it had survived with no care or sun for so long. I pulled the arbor vitae out in 2005. KP Jr loves having sun.
{{gwi:329945}}
I can't help but consider it my 'pet rose'. Wonder why I consider such stubborness a virtue??
{{gwi:329946}}
I still just shake my head when I look at the critter. That one tough rose.
{{gwi:329947}}
It still has a long way to go to catch up with the old Kordes' Perfecta
{{gwi:325556}}
but is well on its way. Any time Stan mentions will to live, I immediately think of KP Jr and smile. You can doubt his 'will' theory but I know it is so :)

Oh, my widened driveway??
{{gwi:327337}}
You can see the form is still there where the white wire fencing is stuck in the ground. Deb decided Orange Passion, Timeless and friends would look better there than concrete. I don't think there will ever be any concrete there.

Didn't want to link the other forum and anger GW, I know, when did I start worrying about making anyone mad??

It couldn't be that long. That would mean I am old... that couldn't be. Who knew those first pics of Lucy back in 2000 would cause such a ruckus :) I know.... I'm vewy, vewy bad. You have been in our thoughts and prayers.

They were there on preview?? Anyone else just seeing red x's? Dang it...

1st pic

2nd pic

3rd pic

4th pic

5th pic

6th pic

Sorry about that

Lucy

Oh Rats..I wanted to get Lucille too..can't find her for sale anywhere!!..Jeanne

Actually, I didn't realize there was another place everyone was going.. I thought maybe you meant RC, which I can't get to.. so I checked RL & remembered Stan had his own place at one time but didn't see it. I did manage to find it though.. I've saved it and will check it out. Haven't been doing much on rose forums since my back got worst.. of all the things I miss, it has to be the roses, taking photos, posting them & working in the garden. Just can't do it like I used to. I so miss buying lots of roses every year lol

For your pics, every post you do has been like that for me. If I right click the red X, select view image it's fine. Of course now I'm drooling over KP again. Thanks Dave. I'm sure Charlie will appreciate it if I start buying roses before we move lol, since you mention Timeless, it's another I will have to pick up as it's one of the ones we lost due to potting to sell the house. It's one of my favorite roses, too bad there isn't any scent.

I'm glad you were able to get a baby plant out of KP. IIRC it originally came from your aunt. I wonder if most of your bushes have own rooted as most of mine have since I started plating them deeper. When I went to dig out Cherry Parfait I actually had 3 own root plants. I'm not sure what type of soil we'll have at the new house, hopefully it's better then what we had here. I will say one thing, the next owner (if we do sell) will have it easy as all of the sugar sand has been replaced.

Tell that beautiful wife of yours I said hi back. Nice to see some "old timers" posting. Now if we can get Sue Belle, Helen & Wanda to come post, that would be great!

I check RC occasionally but very rarely post. The computer goes nuts if I try to visit RL. Check the powered by link at the bottom of our album page if you have time. The site host has been having to do some work and it has knocked linking out sometimes.
The only thing I don't like about Timeless is that it is the very first to get powdery mildew if I neglect the roses. Naturally, that means I can't neglect them. Timeless has performed much better since I pulled the arbor vitae out too. That reminds me... I need to upload few more pics of that gaudy critter. The thing drives me nuts trying to capture the glow of the color.
Most of the established roses I have checked have put down their own roots. I don't look very hard. KP definitely had gone own root way before we moved in. Deb's Grandma couldn't even remember when it was planted. KP was there in the 70s is the best timeline we could come up with. It was in a photo of the yard circa 1972. It may have been planted in the 60s.
Haven't heard from SueBelle since right after Katrina. She and Eddie got through ok. Eddie works for the power company and was very busy. Wanda kept telling me that our unknown (Desi) looked like Summer Dream and I kept saying Desi had been here too long to be SD.... Deb's aunt was talking about it a couple years ago. She bought it in 86. I asked if the name was Summer Dream. She was pretty sure it was. Wish Wanda would wander in here to tell me 'I told you so'. Good luck with the move!

Wow, your rooted Lucille's look great! I remember about a year ago we were all talking about Lucille and where we could get her. Nice job, if there's any extras that are rooted I would love to take one of off your hands (and pay too).

The thing drives me nuts trying to capture the glow of the color.

LMAO! One of these years I'm going to buy a new camera that does reds well. I still have both of my old Nikons, bought a Minolta that doesn't do rose photos well.

Deb's Grandma couldn't even remember when it was planted. KP was there in the 70s is the best timeline we could come up with. It was in a photo of the yard circa 1972. It may have been planted in the 60s.

I wonder how true the new bushes are compared to yours. Once I find one I'll have to compare what I see to yours.

Haven't heard from SueBelle since right after Katrina. She and Eddie got through ok. Eddie works for the power company and was very busy.

That was the last I heard from her too.

Wanda kept telling me that our unknown (Desi) looked like Summer Dream and I kept saying Desi had been here too long to be SD.... Deb's aunt was talking about it a couple years ago. She bought it in 86. I asked if the name was Summer Dream. She was pretty sure it was. Wish Wanda would wander in here to tell me 'I told you so'.

I tried emailing her a few months ago (most likely for her birthday in September) but got my email returned. I'll have to send her a card one day to see if her address is still the same.

Good luck with the move!

Thanks Dave.

Thought you might appreciate this picture. This is an eight pack of rooted Lucille Ball. I have a few more, but they are mixed in with my other rooted cuttings. Not as nice as your monster plant, but I'm well on my way!

btw, your plants look great! I've tried to root cuttings but haven't had luck.

kate,
I heard that Ashdown had a huge waiting list on LB. I know there are a few of us trying to get this rose circulated, but working with the patent holder has been a pain in the ***. Last September I sent one to the breeder (Jack Christensen) since he was having all sorts of problems finding one. I also sent him a Jennifer Hart per his request. Funny that even the breeder would be having troubles finding their own roses...

Hey Mike, I hope you know how gratifying it is that you have done so well with those cuttings. Feels strange thinking of a part of our Lucy going to Jack Christensen (and a well known grower). I had a lot of doubts when I was wacking the cuttings off the bush last year. Can't tell you how good I feel that they were put in your capable hands :) Great work!!
There were times in the last 10 years that I thought keeping Lucille Ball in the public eye was a lost cause and I was wasting my time.

I'm so confused! When I called Palatine I was informed the patent had been abandoned and was therefore fair game. According to his that is why they could propagate and sell the rose.

Kate

kate,
This is incorrect! The patent has not been abandoned according to Carol Clum at J&P, and I just spoke to Renee at Palatine about this. J&P are making me jump through hoops in order for me to get out this one, Spellcaster, Black Beauty, and a few more. What really grinds me is that they have no intentions of ever making any of these available! I was really surprised to see that Palatine was selling these across the border since I was told that J&P would go after any companies selling this way. Good for Renee!

We discussed this issue several time in the past. I do think that if a patent holder does not propagate the rose for x number of years and has no intention to do it in the future, the patent should be considered abandoned - more objective standards or criteria should be used than the word of those who do nothing else just prevent a rose being available for customers.

It is a shame if even the breeder has no access to his own rose. This is outrageous.

Thanks MG>

Good information. I'm trying to learn about patenting and all that so even though this may have been discussed a hundred times I wasn't included in those discussions. Hope things work out for you and the propagating you're doing.

Kate

Yes ceterum, it seems as if we both agree that it would be a much more level playing field if patents were subject to abandonment, unfortunately, they are not.

kate, I can walk you through the patent process, and where you can go to look up patent info if you'd like. Just send me an email.