Hi Al/plantcrazed/et. al., I thought I should come back and share some results from my "experiment" that I started at the end of April. The controls in my little trial were almost non-existent, but I think that actually makes the results more relevant to me and my growing conditions (and hopefully others will get something from this too). Back in April I got an order of leaves of 19 varieties of AVs. 14 came as pairs of leaves, so I decided to try growing them in different media. As I described in my post in mid-May, 14 leaves went in 100% vermiculite and 19 leaves in 100% turface fines (the smaller stuff left over after sifting for other mixes). The planting tray is an old kit I had leftover from years ago that has a clear cover for germinating/propagating. I had grand plans to carefully measure watering, leaf condition, first sign of roots/new leaves, etc. (like a good experimenter would), but the same day I planted the leaves my toddler ended up in the ER, kicking off several weeks of stress and doctor's visits, not to mention usual life events and adventures when working full time and caring for a small child. My plant care regimen settled in to, basically, watering when I noticed they looked dry. After the plantlets started to appear I took the covers off the trays, but otherwise I've just watered and left them under fluorescent lights and hoped for the best. Here are my results. Vermiculite 4 have plantlets, all of which seem to be growing alright 5 are mostly-dead or all-dead 1 formed a nice-looking plantlet that subsequently died, tho the leaf is still there and has roots 4 have roots but no sign of new leaves (yet?) Turface fines all 19 leaves are still alive 16 have multi-leaf plantlets 1 has a new leaf just beginning to appear 2 are strongly rooted and some gentle investigation revealed new leaves that just haven't broken the surface yet (I had just finished watering when I took this photo, which is why the turface shows wet and dry spots. This is what my usual watering of this tray looks like) A few other observations: the leaves of the new plants in the vermiculite are larger than any in the turface the leaves of the new plants in the turface are much smaller, but there are many of them, they are a strong green colour, and have a vital appearance (my experience tells me these are stronger plants than in the vermiculite) one variety was not in very good shape when it arrived. I considered complaining to the store owner about the quality, but see above re: bigger life priorities right now. That variety didn't survive more than a few days in the vermiculite. The leaf just rotted away. In the turface, it slowly rotted up the stem towards the leaf, but then rooted from the remaining piece of leaf and now has a lovely little plant growing: What these results say to me is that, for my horrible, neglectful treatment of these leaves, the turface was a better growing medium. I'm sure Al or Kevin/ewwmayo would have the correct terms for the properties of the two media, but I would say it seemed like the vermiculite contributed to a less stable environment - it went from a soggy mess when I watered to very dry, very quickly - and the turface was much more stable and allowed these poor things to survive despite my neglect. I've read some of the very lengthy threads about the properties of the various gritty mix ingredients and it makes sense to me that a plant like an AV that doesn't like to dry out but also hates being soggy would appreciate the turface's qualities of holding water but allowing for drainage and air movement through the medium. I think from now on the turface fines will be my preferred method for starting AV leaves (and likely other similar plants like episcias or begonias). I also moved two other AVs (a standard and a mini) into a modified gritty mix (1:1:1, but perlite in place of bark). So far nothing meaningful to report, though neither plant has bloomed and the mini seems to be happier than the standard. But with my neglect of the plants lately I don't think these results are meaningful, beyond saying that AVs can actually survive in the gritty mix even with an inconsistent and sub-optimal care routine. If there's anything interesting to report as these AVs continue to grow and I pot them up (likely into a gritty mix of some sort), I'll be sure to come back with an update. I would happily accept comments/questions/criticisms of my results, but please be kind in your criticisms of my care routine. I might be bad with my plants, but this little one is thriving: Thanks everyone, Melanie

Tomato David, Congrats on your new property! Sounds like you will have some very nice soil by next year. My wife is looking forward to having a big chunk of wildflowers all around the house. Being Japanese, she is not as into having a patch of green grass as I am (although I just want a little one). 'Pup, I was thinking about the weeds, and decided totake a number of different approaches. One is to thin by cutting most of them off at the base and leaving them to rot in place. A second is to pull and mulch the desirable plants near them. The third is to cut, carry, and compost them. I am not too worried about bare ground, the vetch and other plants are spreading like wildfire. Now I have found some serious bamboo coming out of a few roots that got left behind. They are all pencil thin whips this year, but I don't want them to get established where they are now. I have a space set aside for them at the bottom of the hill, surrounded by a 50cm ditch. On the other hand, I have harvested a lot of cucumbers already! It was fun, walking around, then seeing a beautiful straight eight cucumber hanging from a vine climbing a lambsquarter! I found a lot more after that. But you really have to look for them in all that jungle. Eric in Japan Here is a link that might be useful:

ewwmayo, thanks for the detailed info. Guess I was sort of wishing that perlite would somehow turn out to permit less water to evaporate than bark. For this batch of classic 1:1:1 every component was screened to between 1/4"-1/8" which probably reduced retention, and for bark I'd used a sample of supposedly super-long lasting Orchiata (wonder if it holds water differently than standard untreated pine, or even fir). After reading about water usage in the bottom-heat Sans threads, maybe shouldn't have been surprised that a dry 85˚F environment would require more irrigation, but the many root-rot posts made me hesitant to water even a gritty mix. About roots establishing over time, originally had expected from Al's mega-thread to have to keep the root zone watered until that point, and since have followed the progression or roots in other plants in the mix, but - unless it's somehow me or these culture conditions - this particular tiny Sans just doesn't seem to grow deep roots. rina, interesting thought about a fan, as I have a small USB fan not being used, and probably an old USB phone-type charger lying around that could power it ... thanks.

Is this a valid concern? Enough to either switch to standard pots instead, or increase the ratio of calcined products even further? I'd say it's a valid concern, given the evaporative surface is probably in the neighborhood of trebled. I can't tell you what to do because it sort of depends on how much you're willing to water. I suppose it you're willing to water daily if that's necessary, a try at upping the water retention with the added water-retaining products is a good bet. Regardless of what you try- why not also try at least one variant container type with a regular mix (if you use 1 pot) or a super soaker mix if you use the fabric bags. - And just out of curiosity, if the unscreened Turface/DE doesn't affect aeration why do you (seemingly) prefer perlite? Cost- or weight-related? I use perlite because I don't want or need the additional water retention afforded by products like Turface or calcined DE. I don't particularly like to water, but my plants appreciate me making soils that require frequent watering. I have at least 200 containers, so I have to make the watering rounds daily (unless it rains) anyway, because I have so many bonsai pots that have 1/2 cup of soil or less. Some plants only need watering every 5 days or so (like pines & junipers), but the little guys demand close attention. That's not the soil's fault - it's related almost entirely to my choices that limit soil volume. Should I water based on the volume of the media with 5-1-1, or should I water based on the size of the plant? Both of those considerations are part of what you use to decide when to water. A well made 5:1:1 is quite forgiving when it comes to the potential for over-watering, so common sense usually carries the day. After a planting is established, you might wait for a weekend when you know you can watch a plant carefully. Water on Wednesday or Thursday, then watch carefully for the first sign of wilt to give you a better idea of where the limits are. It won't take long before you'll be factoring light levels, wind, humidity ..... as a matter of course into your determination of when to water - it'll become almost reflexive. I hardly even think about what I'm doing as I water - usually thinking about something else. If you're in doubt about whether or not the plant will be ok until your next opportunity to water ..... you can usually water w/o ill effects because of the nature of the soil you're using. - Would you recommend the seedlings in an intermediate pot before they go into their final 15gal homes? Personally, I wouldn't bother, but I WOULD be mindful of making sure I keep the soil moist where I think the roots are. IOW, if all the roots are in the top 3" of soil, you better water so the top 3" is moist enough to satisfy water demands. As noted, if you run into this issue at transplant time, you can set the fabric bags on the ground (to take advantage of the earth's wicking action, or set things up so an actual wick is keeping the lower part of the container from staying soggy - say if you have to water daily immediately after transplanting. Don't worry about asking questions. That's what drives the forums. If I can't answer, there are a lot of smart folk here who can help. Once I'm a part of as thread I usually follow it until it fades away, so if you're getting replies from others (say on this thread) and I seem to have gone missing, it's just that I agree with what's being said & there's no need for me to add anything to 'their' able advice. If I think you're not getting good info, I usually offer some sort of input that will make whoever's following the thread view what was said in a light that shows it might not hold up to more than casual scrutiny. With the number of messages I get from people who actually make a point of saying they are totally confused by conflicting information, it's probably as GOOD thing for everyone if we make it more of a point to hold each other's feet to the fire so people can rely on what's being presented as good advice. That's my story and I'm stickin' to it. Thanks for the kind words, BTW. Al