As Elizabeth said, the ones in the PC and BWB are equivilent processing times. Folks don't normally want to PC tomatoes for a longer time. It is based on the "general" public. It is easier and faster to just add the acid. It would take a long time for the heat to penetrate the tomatoes in the pressure canner that most people would not want to do that. All the commercial tomatoes have citric acid added.Fruit fresh is only for color preservation, not for adding acidity. Do not use it instead. It must be citric acid or bottled lemon juice. The Minnesota guidelines are not safe to rely upon for tomatoes. One thing, most of us are not in Minnesota. Secondly, this is their own independent study. This is not the USDA standard testing.( The National Center For Home Food Preservation are the ones to rely upon. They are the leading authority when it comes to canning. Elizabeth Andress wrote the USDA guidelines.) Our soil will be different than theirs. If you grow the same tomatoes in your garden and I grow them in mine they ph level can be totally different. The canning times for the other veggies are based not only on ph, but density. It depends upon how the cells of the veggies absorb the heat in the pressure canner. Denser things take longer to process. For example, green beans in water will heat faster than a jar full of just packed tomatoes. Same reason the zucchini and tomato mixture is processed with no acid added. The juice from the tomatoes, the way they are diced, etc. all make a difference in heat penetration . Same reason tomato juice doesn't take as long to process as whole tomatoes. The juice is thinner and less dense. So, that is most of the reason behind tomatoes taking so long. We find that the crushed tomatoes result in the best texture, faster times, etc. There is a comparable time, but that is for tomatoes packed in water. Who wants to fill their jars full of water with tomatoes ??? If you raw pack them, then it does take 85 min. in the BWB canner. So, when we teach canning lessons we have them do the crushed tomato version from the NCFHFP. You crush and heat some of the tomatoes first, then keep adding the rest of the tomatoes to the pan and heat them all. The PC is supposed to have a higher nutrition value than the BWB canned tomatoes. If you think them too tart, some folks add a pinch of sugar. I don't even notice the tartness of the added acid to tomatoes. I hope I answered everything. If not, then ask me again. Things are CRAZY around here now ! Oh, and the thing about boiling them first before you eat them. Well, if botulism is there, think about you opening that jar, touching the lid with botulism on it. Then, maybe dripping it on the counter. Just not really that wise to use boiling as insurance in my personal opinion. Either you processed them correctly and they are safe or they are not safe. So, I suggest do it correctly and no risk involved.

well, that was certainly quick. Yesterday I used the link Carolyn provided and asked why lemon juice in apple sauce and not in the apple slice and juice recipes ... here's their answer "Dear Kay: Thank you for your message. What we have found through experience is that people make applesauce from the lesser quality apples  although we do not promote this, it is just a given fact. Thus, there is higher potential for mold growth due to the poorer quality apples. Adding the lemon juice to the applesauce is a way we found to help prevent that growth. With this being said, you can leave the lemon juice out IF you are using high quality apples and following our recommended procedures for making applesauce. In addition, we have found that adding the lemon juice enhances the overall quality of the applesauce. People who make apple slices and apple juice donÂt traditionally use poorer quality apples, thus not a need for the addition of lemon juice. "We recommend using natural lemon juice versus specifying bottled lemon juice because of the information provided earlier. In addition, we would like to note that majority of the people who make their own applesauce are doing so because they want an "all natural" finished product. Thus, they prefer to use products that are all natural. People donÂt perceive bottled lemon juice and citric acid as all natural. Thus, we used the "majority rule" for this recipe. "We hope this is helpful and appreciate you contacting us." Carol, looks like your ideas about the windfalls was right on the money.

Humic acid is a principal component of humic substances, which are the major organic constituents of soil (humus), peat, coal, many upland streams, dystrophic lakes, and ocean water. It is produced by biodegradation of dead organic matter. It is not a single acid; rather, it is a complex mixture of many different acids containing carboxyl and phenolate groups so that the mixture behaves functionally as a dibasic acid or, occasionally, as a tribasic acid. Humic acids can form complexes with ions that are commonly found in the environment creating humic colloids. Humic and fulvic acids (fulvic acids are humic acids of lower molecular weight and higher oxygen content than other humic acids)are commonly used as a soil supplement in agriculture, and less commonly as a human nutritional supplement. As a nutrition supplement, free form (unreacted) Fulvic acid is found in a liquid form along with mineral colloids。 Fulvic acids are poly-electrolytes and are unique colloids that diffuse easily through membranes whereas all other colloids do not. Fulvic acid supplements consisting of a neutral pH are very weak fulvic compounds and do not deliver the benefits of free form fulvic acid (fulvic acid that remains unreacted with other substances or unboundto minerals) that exhibits a much higher concentration and lower pH[citation needed]. Fulvic acid branded as “ionic” is not free form fulvic acid, more accurately they are fulvic compounds or fulvate salts. According to the International Humic Substances Society all fulvic acids are colloids. Formation and description Humic substances are formed by the microbial degradation of dead plant matter, such as lignin. They are very resistant to further biodegradation. The precise properties and structure of a given sample depend on the water or soil source and the specific conditions of extraction. Nevertheless, the average properties of humic substances from different sources are remarkably similar. Humic substances in soils and sediments can be divided into three main fractions: humic acids, fulvic acids, and humin. The humic and fulvic acids are extracted as a colloidal sol from soil and other solid phase sources into a strongly basic aqueous solution of sodium hydroxide or potassium hydroxide. Humic acids are precipitated from this solution by adjusting the pH to 1 with hydrochloric acid, leaving the fulvic acids in solution. This is the operational distinction between humic and fulvic acids. Humin is insoluble in dilute alkali. The alcohol-soluble portion of the humic fraction is, in general, named ulmic acid. Gray humic acids (GHA) are soluble in low-ionic-strength alkaline media; brown humic acids (BHA) are soluble in alkaline conditions independent of ionic strength; and fulvic acids (FA) are soluble independent of pH and I. Chromatography and liquid-liquid extraction can be used to separate the components that make up a humic substance. Substances identified include mono-, di-, and tri-hydroxy acids, fatty acids, dicarboxylic acids, linear alcohols, phenolic acids, and terpenoids. Chemical characteristics of humic substances Example of a typical humic acid, having a variety of components including quinone, phenol, catechol and sugar moieties A typical humic substance is a mixture of many molecules, some of which are based on a motif of aromatic nuclei with phenolic and carboxylic substituents, linked together; the illustration shows a typical structure. The functional groups that contribute most to surface charge and reactivity of humic substances are phenolic and carboxylic groups. Humic acids behave as mixtures of dibasic acids, with a pK1 value around 4 for protonation of carboxyl groups and around 8 for protonation of phenolate groups. There is considerable overall similarities among individual humic acids.[4] For this reason, measured pK values for a given sample are average values relating to the constituent species. The other important characteristic is charge density. The molecules may form a supramolecular structure held together by non-covalent forces, such as Van der Waals force, π-π, and CH-π bonds. The presence of carboxylate and phenolate groups gives the humic acids the ability to form complexes with ions such as Mg2+, Ca2+, Fe2+ and Fe3+. Many humic acids have two or more of these groups arranged so as to enable the formation of chelate complexes.[6] The formation of (chelate) complexes is an important aspect of the biological role of humic acids in regulating bioavailability of metal ions. Here is a link that might be useful: Saint Humic Acid

I don't mean to hyjack this thread any further but I'd like to quickly share something that I found fascinating since we're talking about leg braces. The leg braces that were made decades ago were mostly made of strong steel/metal and leather for durability. They were quite heavy to wear. Although, growing up wearing one, I got used to its weight. Currently, the leg braces are constructed with light and strong materials such as titanium alloys, plastic, etc.. It all began when this material was used for aerospace. Basically as I was told, it started when titanium alloys was used for the space shuttles. Being light and strong, titanium alloys began to be used for medical products such as wheelchairs, arm and leg braces. What a break through. When I first wore the new model leg brace, I had to learn how to walk all over again. Being so light, I didn't need to kick or use as much effort to walk with the new leg brace. LOL, I had to keep having to adjust my balance. It was certainly a heavenly moment for me. Plllog, you've heard about the connection between women and shoes? Well, when I learned that I could use any shoes I'd like (well... not all types), it opened up a whole new world on me. It was like a heavenly door opened up and an endless shoe styles shining from one end to the other. I went nuts about shoes for awhile and learned which shoe style worked and which didn't with the leg brace. Then, it was the colors, and which outfit should they be worn with, and etc., etc.. It was fun and frustrating at the same time... but mostly fun. Seriously, being disabled isn't all bad. I can write a whole new books of fun & learning experiences that happen to people with disabilities, or with a challenge, and wouldn't normally happen to people without. More than enough to keep me out of feeling pity about it.