Zone 4 DAs in zone 4?
lkayetwvz5
5 years ago
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How do you hybridize trees zone 4-5 to zone 3?
Comments (7)>>I wonder If I graft the japanese maple onto a regular hardy maple in my climate?Grafting I'll use the example of roses here. Just like japanese maples, most roses are not hardy to zones 4 and lower. The are zone 5 and up. Hybrid tea for instance are not hardy but they are grafted onto hardy roots. Unfortuntely, this doesn't make them hardy in zone 4 and down, we have to protect them heavily so they will come back the year after and even then you run the risk of loosing them. Not because the root system is in danger but because the grafted part is. But even if you loose the grafted part during the winter, you still may have roses that will emerge from the root stock, below the grafting point. Of course, they wont be the same hybrid tea that you bought since that part died, but a hardy rose from the plant on which it was grafted. I would say the same rules would apply to japanese maples grafted onto hardy maple roots. You probably know the Explorer Serie roses. These roses are hybrids but are not grafted, they use their own roots to grow from and they are hardy to zone 3 and some to zone 2. I have 5 of them doing very well and they never needed any kind of winter protection and I never even thought about giving them any either (zone 4b QC, Canada). Why is this? The crosses were made between hardy species and/or cultivar from the the start and the breeding was done not to impart hardiness in the first place but to develop other caracteristics such as colors, trailing habits, short plants, diseases resistantce, etc. They probably used less hardy roses in their breeding program to bring in some new genes unvailable otherwise. Hybridizing If you cross two zone 5 plants like two acer palmatum, you'll end up with a bunch of other zone 5 plants. But if you cross a zone 2 plant with a zone 4 plant, you will probably end up with 80% of the plants hardy to zone 3, 10% hardy to zone 4 and 10% hardy to zone 2. Then if you take one of these new zone 3 hardy plant, roses for example and cross it back with a zone 2 rose, you may end up with a 50% zone 3 and 50% zone 2 stock. And if you cross back again one of these new zone 3 rose with a zone 2 rose, you may end up with a 75% zone 2 - 25% zone 3 ratio. These same rules would also apply to maples making crosses between 2 different species, one of them being the japanese maple for the first cross. The difference is here: in the example of roses I took, the desirable plant and the one used in every cross was a zone 2 and the goal was to bring a zone 4 plant to zone 2. With every cross I did I added some zone 2 hardiness to the gene pool. With the japanese maple, we would be working against the odds, the desirable plant and the one that should be used in every cross is a zone 5 plant and that would bring a zone 3 plant to a zone 5 only. And if I added more and more zone 3 maple, I would be loosing more and more of the japanese gene pool. Either way leads you away from the wanted result. And we haven't even said a word about what could be recessive of dominant in these crosses, which is also a very important factor to keep in mind. This can be observed in the new clematis hybrids that are reaching the market these years. Old clematis were hardy in zone 4, but crossing them to warmer growing one has yielded many new very desirable hybrids, but only hardy in zone 5, 6 or even 7. We have gained in beauty but lost in hardiness. In a word I don't think grafting would be successfull in the way you would want it to be. And breeding wouldn't work quite the way you would want either from what I understand from what you said. These are two of the reasons why I said that selection was a much better approach in your case. It is not an easier or shorter one way to do, only a safer one. Hope this helps!...See MoreWhat Zone 5 roses have you had consistent luck with in in Zone 4?
Comments (5)First, thanks Gary..I didn't realze I had a response on this because I've also been posting on the "antique roses" forum and got a bunch of responses there..I did get a bunch of roses at Sam Kedem. I guess it remains to be seen if any of them make it! Twohuskies has been responding to my posts there and we're in a very similar little microclimate I think. I'll definitely look into the rose you all have suggested. And yes Gary I agree that Sam is great. He has great info on roses and is honest about what he thinks will be hardy. Here is one of my roses that seems to come back again and again that I remember being a Zone 5 but don't remember the name. I had one possible ID on the AR forum as an Austin Rose, "The Dark Lady" I'm not sure if that's right or not..The name doesn't sound familiar to me. This rose is definitely my favorite in my garden and has come for 7 winters with only minimal protection. I've lost LOTS of others since then.. look familiar to anyone?...See MoreI am zone 5 RARELY zone 4 Jasminum x stephanense Hardy here?
Comments (2)I used to grow it in OHIO zone 6a I know for a fact it is hardy in zone 5b Ne Ohio "a friend of mine still has it there..... It survived for me -17F in Ohio and remained semi-evergreen at -8F... So if you want to grow it plant it on a sunny south or east wall or solid wood fence for protection and give it mulch in the winter in well drained soil and You stand a chance...See MoreTable grapes zone 4b/a - 2 trunks vs 4? 4 foot canes vs 8 foot?
Comments (0)I am growing seedless table grapes in zone 4b/a. My plants are in 50 foot rows planted 8 feet apart, 5 plants per row. The trellis is a Geneva double curtain (2 parallel wires, 4 feet apart @ 6 feet from the ground). Rows run North – South. Due to the cold I am growing multiple trunks to have backups in case of winter kill. I have the following questions: 1) Is there a benefit to having a fewer number of trunks in that energy more easily reaches roots? Eg. 2 trunks with 1 or 2 canes each. 4 trunks with 1 cane each. 2) Is it better to have fewer long canes or more shorter canes? Eg. 2 canes, 8 feet long each or 4 canes, 4 feet long each? Total cane lenght each (mature) plant of 16 feet. 3) General advice it to trim trunk at top wire and in next year grow a cane from trunk along top wire and then either cane or spur prune. Right now my trunk has grown up to top wire AND 8 feet along the top wire. Why can’t I just leave the whole thing as one long trunk as opposed to trimming and growing a cane to replace the potion of trunk I cut off. Something to do with the canes fruiting better right? I am going to experiment with different growing options and cane vs spur pruning. Given that I have multiple trunks I will probably try both cane and spur pruning for each plant as well as laying down the trunk vs leaving trunk exposed during winter. Now onto my training questions. I have several options. As metioned it is a Geneva double curtain running north-south with a east wire and a west wire. Option A) 1 trunk growing up to east wire and growing cane 8 feet north with other trunk growing up to east wire and growing cane 8 feet south. I would alternate plants, eg the next plant in the row will grow on the west wire. Option B) 1 trunk growing up to east wire and growing cane 4 feet north with 2nd trunk growing up to east wire and growing cane 4 feet south. 3rd trunk growing up to west wire and growing cane 4 feet north with 4th trunk growing up to west wire and growing cane 4 feet south. Option C) 1 trunk growing up to east wire with 4 foot canes growing north AND south. 1 trunk growing up to west wire with 4 foot canes growing north AND south. What do you think?...See Morelkayetwvz5
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