I've occasionally cooked (stewed?) brisket in tomato sauce, of course without meat. It really doesn't work. The tomato flavor and the beef aren't the best combination. I wouldn't try a roast though unless you can some real confirmation here or they're BOGO at the local supermarket.

I had totally forgotten this memory until right now. When I was a child, my parents would take us to a small, hole in the wall Italian restaurant. I can remember my mother talking to Nora, the lady who owned the restaurant. Nora told Mom two secrets to their spaghetti sauce: (1) they added grated carrots to the sauce; and (2) they cooked a roast in the sauce. From then on, Mom added carrots to her sauce, but she never tossed in a roast. Mother wasn’t an adventuresome cook.

I don't know if you're making it up or not, but I have tried a few "Italian" pot roasts and stews. It seems that the tomatoes make them Italian? Or perhaps the stew contained pasta, so that's what made it Italian? Either way, I do like the combination, and the meat has always been very tender. This recipe is in my "to try" folder. I've always had good success with her recipes.

I remember, in our spaghetti sauce discussions, one or two people talking about cooking a pork roast and something else in the "gravy" but I don't remember it being pot roast. The point, I think, was that the roast improves the meat sauce as it cooks.

It should work fine on a chuck roast (I wouldn't call it "pot roast" if it's not made with the carrots and potatoes and all. The veg get their flavor from the meat and vice versa.). The point with a cut with a lot of connective tissue is to go low and slow with acid and sugar, to melt down that connective tissue. That's why tomatoes or pineapple are so popular.

My own opinion is that unless you're making a big kettle of sauce. and throwing in the roast to cook while you're at it (which is the point of those I remember posting it--that the roast was part of the spaghetti sauce cooking, not vice versa), it's kind of a waste of spaghetti sauce since you'd need enough to cover the roast. It would be easier to make the pot roast and add the drippings to the sauce, if the point is to improve a smaller quantity of sauce. We always put some tomatoes in the pot roast, though it's not tomato heavy, because they do help so much with the tenderizing.

My in-laws were Italian and often cooked whole meats in the pot with the sauce/gravy. At Uncle Ratzi's house especially, you never know what you would find in the pot. Beef, duck, chicken, or pork. Usually though, the meat was cooked until it was "fall off the bone". There was never a roast you could actually cut. The bits that came off the roast certainly made the sauce thicker.

I wouldn't cook the entire time in spaghetti gravy, but would be willing to try it after it's out and drained and cut up, and then braised in the sauce. Tomato-based sauces break down too quickly, for my taste ... especially when you are doing long-haul beans ....

I grew up eating almost everything with an Italian flair as my grandmother was Italian, however, she did not teach my mother the language as she wanted her to be fully American but we knew how to make ravioli well.

I would cook the meat til falling off the bone in the sauce, but I usually use pork and pick out the bones. The meat is already incorporated into the sauce. Delicious!

Thanks all for the comments and suggestions.

When we make spaghetti sauce, we make a lot. DD has to cut my recipe in half because she doesn’t have a pot big enough to make an whole recipe. When I make a whole recipe, I have to use my 16 qt stock pot. Also, it cooks for *hours.* It isn’t a quick sauce.

DD is going to make a pot of spaghetti sauce and throw a roast in to cook. We make spaghetti sauce with ground beef, so I don’t know that cooking a beef roast is going to change the taste. She’s looking for the meat to be “fall off the bone” tender. And if a little of it falls into the pot of sauce, so much the better.

Bumblebeez, I have an excellent recipe for Pork Ragu, but everytime, I end up with some bone shards in it. Consequently, no one in my family will eat it, even though the flavor is fantastic. Your comment reminded me of it. I need to figure out a good cut of pork to substitute for the called-for ribs.

bbstx, I would use country style ribs. They don't have a bone.

https://www.thekitchn.com/what-are-boneless-country-style-pork-ribs-and-why-dont-they-have-bones-meat-basics-216740

Sherry, I thought that was what I bought last time, but I swear there were bone shards in them. Not bones, but small shards which were dangerous to have in the ragu! It was really weird.

Sounds like the butcher cut too close to the bone when he was cutting them into the "ribs". Maybe try a pork shoulder? My Publix cuts all the big roasts down into quite small ones.

Oh, to have a Publix here. Closest one is a 4 hour drive. I may give a shoulder a try. That is the same cut as a pork butt, isn’t it? The ones I see are like 340 lbs (I exaggerate, but they are huge!). I’ll see if the butcher can cut it into smaller portions.

Looking forward to hearing how wonderful this turns out, bbstx. I always thought that "Sunday Gravy" was an Italian phrase depicting what you were describing. I wish we had a Publix here too!

CathyinSWPA

The first, and probably most common, is Boston butt. Boston butt comes from high on the hog, above the shoulder blade, and has lots of juicy, marbled fat. This is probably what most people buy when they purchase pork shoulder in a grocery store. It's a versatile piece of meat that you can just as easily roast or braise. For home cooks, it's also very inexpensive.

Below the butt is the pork shoulder. This cut includes most of the hog's front leg quarter. Because the leg muscles work a lot more than the back, the meat is a little tougher here than the butt, thus requiring a bit more time to coax out tenderness.

A shoulder cut with the shank -- or hock -- attached is called a picnic ham. This cut is cheaper than most because it requires less butchering and has more bone in it. Picnic hams usually come straight from the abattoir in a clean, cryovac'd package, all ready to go.

It may be too tough for what you are wanting to make. I use Boston butts for pulled pork, but they are quite fatty.

ETA: I wonder if it would be better to get some baby back ribs. They have bones, but they are big and easy to see.

Pork neck bones with some meat on them make a fantastic sauce! Many places offer them for free or next to that. When done. put to bones in a bowl and set that on the table for everyone to really clean them off.

bbstx, I often buy boneless country style pork ribs to cook low and slow in a particular sauce I like for them. They're extremely tasty and fall-apart tender. I think they'd be a good option for the Pork Ragu. They're also cut/sized in a convenient way.

bbstx, I still think you got a poorly cut package of country ribs. I haven't ever had any shards of bone in any I bought.

I printed your recipe. I going to try it. I haven't cooked polenta before, any hints?

Also, when you cook the roast in spaghetti sauce, is that just taking the place of the hamburger usually used here? It is then served over pasta?

I was thinking the same as Sherry regarding poorly cut. I've never found shards in any that are boneless. OTOH, I've bought bone-in country style ribs that have bones vs. shards.

Sherry, the Pork Ragu is excellent. DH doesn’t like polenta. I served the Pork Ragu over cheese grits. As I understand it, grits, polenta, and cornmeal are all the same thing. The difference is in the coarseness of the grind.

I hope you are right about the shards. I might give pkramer’s neckbones a try. I’ve seen them at the grocery, but I’ve never bought them.

The roast in spaghetti sauce is an experiment in the making. DD is going to give it a shot this week. I’ll report back.

I just googled “Sunday Gravy.” The consensus seems to be that it is spaghetti sauce with whole cuts of meat cooked in it. The sauce is served over pasta with the meat served separately, but it appears to be eaten with the pasta.

I was taught by a "real Italian" to always start my sauce with a big piece of pork quickly browned before you add the onions, garlic etc...because it's so easy, I often use a pork chop rather than ask the butcher for 1 1/2 pounds of pork shoulder.
Now my daughter is married a "real Italian" and I find out his mother doesn't know what I am talking about...I guess it depends where in Italy your traditions lie.

OH! I thought you were talking about making pot roast! Since you're talking about making spaghetti sauce, by all means, throw in the roast! I'll look forward to hearing how it goes for your daughter.

Re your Sunday gravy definition from the 'net, I think that fits with what I remember being discussed here. That the roast was cooked in the sauce then removed and served. As opposed to meat that's put in the sauce to be part of the sauce. It might have been in the "what is gravy" discussion, rather than the spaghetti sauce threads. I think the point was that the sauce was called gravy because the meat was cooked in it, it's where the drippings were, etc., so gravy was the appropriate word as much or moreso than tomato sauce.

As to the pork ribs, I'd use them on the bone. Bones have so much flavor and nutrition (at least, I assume pork bones do. Beef bones do). If that's going too far, but you like the flavor of the cut you've been using, why not tie it up in cheesecloth or one of those silicone mesh soup sacks?

plllog, I think the goal for DD is to get a couple of seemingly-different meals out of it: (1) a roast to eat with separately prepared vegetables and (2) a pasta sauce. Sorry I wasn't clearer. Sometimes in the desire for brevity (which I rarely achieve), I leave out important details.

For pot roast, I use a recipe that is at least 20 years old from the newspaper. Among other things, it calls for a can of tomatoes, like you mentioned in your first response. I never realized that was to help tenderize the meat!

I don't have a favorite cut for the Pork Ragu. I'm still floundering about trying to find a good one. I've never heard of a silicone mesh soup sack! I'll have to investigate that!

Lindac, when we were in Italy this spring, we were told they use a lot of pork. Our guide said they especially use cinghiale (wild boar) because there is a constant struggle to keep them from taking over.

"Among other things, it calls for a can of tomatoes, like you mentioned in your first response."

bbstx, my two favorite pot roast recipes call for canned tomatoes and red wine. One from the Silver Palate and one from Ina Garten. Lots of great pot roast recipes out there...with or without tomatoes and/or wine.

This topic's making me hungry! :-)

Oh, dear! I fear in Texas, as here in California, that boar's name sounds very naughty!

There are also cloth mesh soup sacks. No need to suffer with pokey bits getting into the food. :)

I see where you mentioned the veg. So... If it's a matter of cooking the pot roast and sauce at the same time for ease and maybe energy/heat of kitchen conservation, it sounds to me like the potatoes and carrots (and onions and celery if your DD wants to serve them) can go in soup sacks as well, and right into the sauce. Pot roast carrots are so much better than regular carrots for being cooked in the juices. It's just a matter of figuring the timing.

For the connective tissue it's acid and sugar, so think about what's in barbecue sauce, too. :) Wine generally brings acid. Even in dry rubs, there's usually a sugary component, and sometimes something that'll go acidic when dampened. These recipes are traditional because they work. :) Plus, tomatoes bring the umami.

Pillog, I think this thread has morphed into several things (as most do). I had never heard of spaghetti gravy until GW, I cook spaghetti (ground beef browned with spaghetti sauce over spaghetti noodles,OR pot roast (beef, potatoes, carrots, and maybe onions(no tomatoes). Served with rice and beef gravy (cornstarch or flour with water). The ribs over polenta was also completely different.

Here is the genesis of my Spaghetti Gravy. I’ve made some changes as the years have gone along. I do all of the simmering in the oven. Otherwise, I scorch it.

Chloebud: That recipe sounds like what the Italians I've been around call gravy. What meats do you use for the 1# of mixed meat?

lizbeth, I've used pork, ground beef and veal. Sometimes veal can be harder to find. If so, you can use a half pound each of beef and pork...or any ratio you want. The recipe's very tweakable with good results.

I guess I'm just a snob ... but am told that on almost a daily basis ... go figger.