A friend who used to foster large numbers of dogs had an area of her dog done in sand. It was messy in terms of tracking it in, but it drained well and was easy to clean up poop.

Not sure I'm up for that kind of messiness but thank you for the additional option.

My friend had artificial put in her yard, and last I asked her she was happy with it. Frankly, I wouldn't have it as it's too plastic looking. I also wouldn't recommend gravel or rocks because it would be very hard on their paws. How about asking at your nursery for a durable grass for dogs. OK, it will have pee marks, but you have dogs and it happens. Sand will drive you crazy as the dogs will bring it in the house. Just my 2 cents.

Definitely explore your options with a professional i.e. landscaper or gardening company. My friend has artificial turf and she hates that it retains "fragrances" as she eloquently calls it. Because we are in water-starved LA, hosing it down is not an option and it rarely rains. And, as socks says, it's not the most aesthetic solution.

Just want to say that I feel your pain (had two, then three, and now back to two dogs with a new pup who eats stones, digs up plants from the yard and pots, and does everything possible to destroy the house and yard/garden) and hope someone gives you a perfect solution that I may steal for here as well. Oh, and we have no grass left in the back, so I don't pull weeds since they are green and that is better than mud! ha)

I would get all of those river stones and gravel out of the yard ASAP. My family had a young dog who swallowed a stone (without us knowing) and it caused an intestinal blockage and killed him.

While my current dog is pretty hard on the grass, I still find grass to be the easiest surface to manage. Admittedly I only have one dog, but she only eats it when it gets long and if the area is large enough the pee-killing gets distributed and the clumps she tears up when she runs around crazy grow back in fairly quickly.

While we're down to just one (smallish - poodle) dog now, we regularly have a friend's two dogs (big collie mix + Boston terrier) for extended stays as well as BIL's big Airedale staying regularly. We used to have a Golden and a Lhasa Apso and regular visiting guest-dogs that included, Lab, Lab x Australian shepherd, Border Collie, Briard, and Bouvier. So we have had lots of dogs here and the backyard takes their needs into account! How big is your backyard? Ours is 75' x about 40'. Paths are a key part of the design as it gives the dogs a good exercise space - they love to run - and chase each other - along the paths (which helps keep them out of the planted spaces!). At this point the paths are just packed earth although we have mulched them with fine pinebark mulch in the past and some areas have drainage gravel in the base. The paths also satisfy the dogs' need to patrol the boundaries of their territory.

There is a lawn - that is always in rough shape after a winter with not enough snow cover to dilute urine (!) and there are always some dead patches in summer if/when we get lazy about pouring water on urine spots (When Inky and Loki are visiting, a regular daily event is: Cole pees; Loki pees on top of it; Inky pees on top too!) That happens several times a day! We usually over-seed the lawn in spring to help it green up again and then give up on it around now when the heat is causing it to go dormant anyway. The grass is also weak from the shade from the trees in the backyard. But the lawn is green enough to look OK from a little distance away and gives the dogs a good play space.

There is no loose gravel or river rock. Cole eats some grass (I can't grow any of the Japanese forestgrasses as he thinks they are dog candy!) and the others will occasionally eat lawn grass. Inky will chew any bits of branches that fall from the ash tree - but what she really wants is someone to throw a stick for her! Fortunately they have never really attacked any major plantings but most things are pretty tough out there and can take a bit of rough treatment!

So, I'd say pay attention to the dogs' exercise needs and be willing to live with a less-than-perfect lawn and you can probably find a way to have a backyard that meets both your needs and those of the dogs.

Some pictures:

Resident and regular visiting beasts now:

Approximate plan of backyard (the red Xs denoted trees dead or to be removed; the Ds were trees to add....:

The lawn doesn't look too bad in this picture (from early June after a rain) taken from the back porch, but up close you'd see lots of bare spots :-)

The first dusting of snow always shows the path network nicely:

Collie racing on the path around the lawn :-)

(You can see that the lawn looks a bit(!) patchy in the above early spring picture!)

So, as both a dog and garden lover, I'd say it's possible to combine dogs and a garden if you consider the dogs' needs (and do some basic training -' Leave it!' is a great all-purpose command that all dogs should learn. It means means 'whatever you're doing - or thinking about doing - stop it!' :-)

Have fun

That’s so impressive-a private dog park!!

Wow!!! Woodyoak Zone 5 Canada!!! That was exactly what I was looking for. I guess I can live with patchy grass. I love all the paths. My yard is 46' x 62' so a little smaller but probably doable. We do have quite a few trees and the land has a steep slope to one side where we put in a retaining wall and steps up it. I thought I added a photo to the original post but I'm not seeing it. Here is the yard currently:

and the yard in the spring (hope these load this time).

I don't seem to have a photo of the retaining wall and area behind the metal fence.

They do know leave it and I'm always watching them outside, but sometimes I turn away for a second then hear loud rock against teeth crunching. Once they have it in their mouths they are not going to drop it unless of their own accord. Yes, I'm dying to get rid of the rocks.

I've been wanting to add pathways as the dogs do seem to like chasing each other around objects so maybe having some durable plants in between pathways would be great for them.

Has anyone tried rubber pavers or playground mats for pathways?

Interesting.... I could see doing a variation on what we have here. But I think you'd need to remove those little walls around the trees at the back to permit a path along the fence - with short paths connecting that one to a path around a shaped lawn area. If you had a smaller, defined lawn space with a path around it, it would be easier to either spot water pee deposits - or water the lawn area with a sprinkler just enough to dilute the pee deposits sufficiently to prevent burns. A neighbour who has a long history of keeping large dogs has a perfect lawn because he keeps watering cans full of water in various places around the garden and immediately floods places where a dog pees! When rain is regular and reasonably generous, that can be enough to offset pee; at other times - when rain is insufficient, the dog-owner needs to provide the necessary additional water!

If you have a copy of your property survey, mark where the trees are, then pay attention to where the dogs like to/want to run (running the perimeter of their territory is always a prime need....) From that, work out a path/lawn/beds layout that would work for you and them.

Something like this:

Good luck.

Thank you. For the last few weeks, I've started watering the places the dogs pee immediately after they leave it with a watering can like your neighbor. That seems to have kept the grass from deteriorating further. I do pick up poop as soon as they finish as my girls have been known to roll in it during their play and I'd rather pick it up immediately than have them rub all over me with poop stuck to their sides or paw me with poopy paws. Yuck!

I'll have to get a copy of our property survey so I can start marking it. I was working on creating a diagram using graph paper but the property survey probably would be faster.

We just went outside and I watched them play. They definitely use up the whole grassy area with their play but also run around the trees chasing each other. So maybe I should keep the grass mostly the same area but add more pathways around the grass.

I took some more pictures outside as well. We plan to replace the deck and make the area under the deck open so the dogs have more room to run around. We also plan to take down the metal fence so the dogs have more room to run as well, but we might put the fence up at the top of the retaining wall and make that our garden area. We are also considering moving the deck over so it goes above the basement window and possibly door so we don't have to excavate the ground near the deck portion closest to the retaining wall as it is on a slope and the bottom of the deck to the ground is only 5'8", meaning many people would bump their heads trying to walk under it.

Here are the photos:

Panoramic

Deck

Area Between Trees and Back Fence

Retaining Wall and Deck

I'd really love to hang a stretchy rope and toy from the maple tree for my dogs.

Definitely get rid of as much of that rock as you can - the area in your picture along the fence would make a good dog path - if that rock wasn't there! What is the function of the pipe that is visible in that picture? What is your soil like? Here it is heavy clay. When we first changed the back lawn to the rectangle with the path network, we put down a mulch and sand mixture that was 1/3 'concrete' sand (a 'sharp'/angular sand that packs down well) and 2/3 finely shredded pine-bark. That gave a very natural look and was easy for people to walk on - and the dogs to run on. The pine-bark breaks down into the soil and the sand packs into the soil too. In 2014 we put down more of the mulch and sand mixture (simple mix - two shovelfuls of mulch; one of sand when filling the wheelbarrow; dump in small loads on the path and spread with a garden rake. Run a water-filled roller over it to pack it down if you have a roller.). This year we were feeling lazy and did not refresh the mulch as the paths were still firm and dry for walking - or dogs running - on. Weeds were removed as needed with a scuffle hoe. That has worked quite well so we'll see how long we can get away without needing to add more mulch to the paths.

Having things to run around makes it more fun for the dogs and keeps them active - here, they like to 'ambush' each other to make the chase more fun :-) The Border Collie (now, sadly, deceased) that used to be a regular guest here had energy to burn! He used to race around the paths at the slightest excuse and would take a flying leap over a garden bed to switch from one path to another! He did, though, leave launch gouges and skid marks in the paths that needed to be raked flat from time to time :-)

How much water have you been putting on the pee spots? Don't be skimpy! The neighbour dumps the whole watering can full on the spot - which is sufficient to dilute the pee from something concentrated that burns the grass to a dilute fertilizer that encourages the grass to grow! The pictures below are of his lovely big girl that died a couple of years ago and his current young (male) replacement dog leaning against me hoping for more cookies :-) The first picture I call 'cookie monster lying in wait' - she knew I always had cookies for her, but she also knew she wasn't allowed to leave her property - notice her front toes are just barely across the very end of the driveway as she waits for me to approach :-)

If the neighbour can have a nice lawn with these sorts of dogs, you can too!

I'm not clear on where the retaining wall is and what the metal fence is about.... I find using the survey as a quick and easy way to doodle ideas on a scale d drawing and then you can move to the graph paper version once you have developed an idea. Maybe seeing the survey/drawing will clarify the retaining wall/fence issue - but IMO the more space you can integrate for both garden and dogs, the better off you'll all be!

Thank you for all the great ideas and info on how to landscape the way you have it! The retaining wall we just added last fall as the side of the hill was starting to cover a window over there and my dad (a civil engineer) said we needed a retaining wall to keep the side of the hill from becoming structurally unsound. The fence is there because that side of the yard is not dog proof yet and probably won't be until we rent a big dumpster for the yard renovation as the previous owners left a bunch of dangerous (to dogs) junk under those stairs. Because at the time we didn't have the time to clean up the yard, we just put up a fence and have just left it there as we have discovered the rocks and yard in general isn't working out well for the dogs anyways so we would have to redo everything.

I don't know what kind of soil we have. I've been planning to stop by the local Extension office to get a soil test kit to find out what the soil is like. There is a bare patch of grass near the deck stairs that has been bare since we purchased the house so I'm wondering if that part of the yard has something wrong with the soil. We have tried seeding that area multiple times with different type seeds and nothing ever worked.

You have me very excited about doing the yard now. I can't wait to remove all that rock.

airillusion, I highly recommend hanging a toy from the tree. I didn't feel like spend $50-75 for the pre-made tug-toy, so I made one myself. I bought a 2ft bungee cord with carabiners on both ends. I attached one end to the toy and the other to a rope looped over a tree branch. It really helps keep mine occupied.

No help to give in the yard problems you describe...but, your breed needs heavy duty exercise and mental stimulation. Perhaps you can find a not-yet-old-enough-to- hold-a-job teen willing to run & walk your dogs for an hour, 3 or 4 days per week. Ten USD an hour is attractive to a fourteen year-old, if he / she runs track...all the better. This helped immeasurably with a now deceased dog who ate (as in chewed up and swallowed) most of a chair.

Absolutely, chiflipper! They do get lots of exercise and mental stimulation. I actually only work 2-3 days a week and they are never home alone at this point, especially since they are both pretty young. The older of the two is actually fairly calm for a pointer, except in the morning and at dusk, and my husband is just waiting until the puppy's growth plates close so he can start running with her. We do nose work with the puppy for now which actually ends up being a lot of running, but on her terms.

Since this tread has come up to the top again.... I meant to say earlier that, if you are now watering pee spots diligently, it would be a good time to give all the dead/bare spots a good soak, use a rake or hand cultivator to remove the dead grass and loosen the soil, then sprinkle with grass seed and water it in. Keep the seeded areas watered gently. If the seed germinates, start mowing it along with the rest of the lawn when the new grass gets to 2".. It should fill in quickly and you'll soon get a good idea whether you can do the spot watering sufficiently well to keep the lawn in good shape.

What this thread needs is a picture of your beasties :-))

Thanks woodyoak zone 5 Canada! Here is the picture of my beasties:

And since the topic is how to design their yard so they can maximize play without destroying our yard, here is a video of them at play:

Aren’t they a pair of cuties?! They seem to have a particular path they follow - from the door, across the grass, behind the raised brick area / along the fence, and back to the door.... It might be worth considering reshaping where the grass is to give them a path across it to the door. That might save the grass from a lot of wear and tear. And give them lots of paise if the pee somewhere other than the grass.

Definitely get rid of those rocks if you can!

Most dogs patrol the fence line so I planted shrubs well away from the fence. I also don't plant in any areas with a beaten dog path, with the exception of lawn.

Unfortunately, there will be at least a small portion of the fence that they won't get to patrol due to a raised bed made from concrete up against the fence.

They will just patrol along the bed where it is the perimeter of their space :-) Just keep that in mind when planting there - i.e. consider their space needs when they are patrolling that area and adjust the spacing of the plantings as necessary to give the dogs room so as to minimize any damage they might cause when they are patrolling :-)