Where did you buy this? Rogue Valley?

Whatever it is, it’s definitely not ‘Moore’s Striped Rugosa’, and in fact, it’s not any kind of Rugosa - it’s something from the Gallicanae section. You need to contact the merchant to get a replacement.

Hi Paul,

Thank you for such a quick response! I got it from Burling in April 2017. I never thought it would be a different rose till you mentioned it. Now I see the sepals are totally different from what I see on HMF. :-( Oh well, it's still so pretty and healthy, which scores BIG here with me in our blackspot rampant area. In addition, in this past frigid and extended winter we had in NJ, there was no dieback at all. I will reach out to Burling for a potential ID, but I plan to keep this beauty.

BTW, thank you so very much for all your brilliant work on rose hybridization! I have several of your roses in my garden, they are amazing and I simply LOVE them! I'm so honored to be able to say this to you "in person".

-Lin

Just reached out to Burling for a potential ID. Anyone here has a guess what this rose might be? Correction - the bloom is a bit over 2" across when fully open. The plant in its second year is pushing close to 3' in height at the moment and a bit wider than 3' in width. The canes are covered with small prickles from top to bottom. The bloom color shown in the third picture is fairly close to its actual color, not unlike the color of the Apothecary's rose, but maybe a tad deeper and more saturated.

Thanks much!

@Lin,

Depending on how the blooms age color-wise, my guess is 'The Bishop', based on bloom size, general coloring and petal count, and foliage type/growth habit. But there are quite a few Gallicas and Hybrid Chinas that look similar. Perhaps you can post more photos as the blooms age?

And thanks for your kind remarks!

Paul

I exchanged some emails with Burling regarding potential ID of this mystery rose. She said that she didn't have "The Bishop" in her nursery last year. So it may not be it. I checked her inventory for 2017 and looked at all gallicas she had listed there against HMF. There is one that looked promising, based on photos on HMF - Hippolyte. I don't have any experience with Hippolyte, and HMF doesn't provide the average size of the bloom. But, the petal count and the button-eye appearance seem right. However, there is a fading of color from mauve to white toward the center on many pictures of Hippolyte that I definitely don't see with my bloom. Can someone who grows Hippolyte comment on her bloom size and color(s) please? Many thanks!

The first picture below shows the same bloom as the third picture above. After a day in hot and humid high 80's weather, and overnight torrential rain, the color hasn't faded. The second picture below is the top view of the same bloom, showing sort of a button-eye.

Same bloom as above on day 5. The outer edge is somewhat faded. The second and third pics show newer flowers with interesting color patterns. We've had quite a bit of weather mix here, high in the high 80's almost 90 in some days with lots of sun and torrential rain in others, and low in the low 50' at some nights. The last pic is a new shoot coming up (3' tall as of today), covered with lots of little prickles.

Paul, does this look right for the Bishop? The pics on HMF look really similar to my mystery rose to my untrained eyes. But I can't explain around its absence in Burling's inventory.

Thanks much!

Linc, that might be Hippolyte. As Paul implied, those Hybrid Chinas/Gallicas can be a bit of a blur except for very specific and sometimes minute details. Did Burling have a suggestion?

Where do you garden? I've noticed that mauve HC/G blooms can be significantly affected by climate. Hot temps can throw them into pinker shades. The amount of white at the petal bases varies. Etcetera.

I'm sorry your rose is not as ordered. It's always a bit of a surprise when a rare, striped rugosa emerges as a pretty but stripe-less Gallica. On the up side, your mystery is beautiful in bloom, shrub form and health, and it looks fantastic next to your white peony! I'm a big fan of Gallicas and their hybrids. They are probably my favorite OGRs! Carol

In my experience, ‘Hippolyte’ has much more structured blooms, with a much less pronounced notch in the petals. The color isn’t right either, as ‘Hippolyte’ doesn’t make two-toned flowers like the second photo.

‘I’m no longer sure it’s ‘The Bishop’ either - the pompon shape makes me think it’s more aligned with the ‘Cramoisi Picotee’ group. Some of these Gallicas are hard to ID because 1) many look very similar and 2) many are mislabeled in collections, so nobody knows for sure which is correct, and 3) spontaneous seedlings often appear that get discovered and then mistaken for a named cultivar. It happens more than you might think!

Hi Carol,

Burling suggested it might be another hybrid rugosa that she carried in her inventory, Therese Bugnet. But I don't believe it is. I have a Therese Bugnet (from Heirloom) in another flower bed. Her flower size, growing pattern, and many other characteristics are very different from this Mystery.

I'm in zone 7a in central NJ. The temperature has been fluctuating like mad. I wonder whether that temp fluctuation contributed to the funky color patterns seen on the newer flowers? These bloom stay really well on the bush. We had a thunderstorm with torrential downpour a few days ago that dumped well over 1" of rain overnight. The flowers all kept their petals. Pretty amazing!

I was disappointed when I failed to see any stripes on the first few flowers; I've been looking forward to having and seeing the beautiful flowers of Moore's Striped Rugosa for quite some time. Plus, all my flower beds are full now. With that said, I truly love this mystery rose, as it's so healthy, vigorous, and stunning! It's turning out to be quite a pleasant surprise, so staying it will be! :-)

--Lin

Hi Paul,

I went through Burling's 2017 inventory and checked against all her gallicas and hybrid chinas. None of them looked right to be my mystery, except some resemblance between it and Hippolyte. Can our weather fluctuation have led to the multi-color pattern seen in the new bloom? If Hippolyte isn't it, it may remain as a mystery, a beautiful one nonetheless. My daughter helped me plant this bush as a tiny band last spring. Bet she will be intrigued by the mystery around it.

--Lin

No, I'd agree NOT Therese Bugnet.

The pompon shape of the blooms is really pronounced! I see exactly why Paul is leaning away from Hippolyte and toward other heavily multipetaled roses like CP. Paul, have you ordered from Burling? I am embarrassed to say I am not familiar with her stock.

Lin, as your HC/G matures, the secrets may unfold. Young roses are so changeable. Please post more photos as time passes, and PLEASE hang around on the forum and continue to share in gardening exchanges! It is lovely getting to know you. Carol

Hi Carol,

I will definitely post more pictures as the bush matures. Thank you so much for the warm welcome! It was a bit intimidating to take this first jump. I've been reading the posts on the Forum for several years, but never posted before. I fell in love with OGRs because of the Antique Rose Forum :-) and started collecting them. I now have several representatives from many of the OGR classes. I'm truly grateful to have learned much from you and countless others on different cultivars, care instructions, pruning techniques, and lots other useful information!

--Lin

I could be far off, but one of your photos reminded me of The Shell Rose. Does she carry that one?

Alana, it DOES look a lot like the rose called "Mary Lawrance's Shell Rose." I was thinking along the lines of "Old Red Runaround" ("Little Red Runaround") since Burlington is in CA. Lin, you might check out those two on HMF. I was just in Paul's garden, but I can't remember if he grows either of those. Jeri and the other Californians would probably recognize "ORR" ("LRR"). Carol

Hi Alana and Carol,

Based on pictures on HMF, the pompon blossoms on my mystery rose look like the Shell Rose/Mary Lawrence as well as Old Red Runaround. But, my buds' sepals are more intricate than what I see with Old Red Runaround. They resemble more those of the Shell Rose. However, Burling didn't have either listed in her catalogue (the one that I received via email last year showing 2017 availability). No idea whether the absence of these roses on her list equates to absence in her nursery though.

--Lin

Have to say for a second year youngster from a tiny band, this is pretty impressive! Name or no-name, this sure is a keeper!

I agree!

I would love it to be a found rose! I only have one "found rose" in my garden, Fa's Marbled Moss, and this will be the second. Question - does the petal count reported on HMF vary regionally? There are pictures posted there with semi-double blossoms (also as seen in the description) as well as very fully double ones. Is that common? Could that be from self seeding leading to genetic variations? Thanks much!