Please don't plan on using your parents' home as your prep space. Their house has to be theirs, not yours. Even if they enjoy co-hosting family get-togethers, they will never feel like this is their house if it is your work area, and they will feel they are intruding on your turf. Also, as they age, they may wish to exit the party a bit earlier and retire to their quiet house, not a space filled with party debris.

I agree that the kitchen could be much more compact. Keep in mind that sitting at an island is not all that comfortable for the elderly. Again, this should be THEIR space, not your second kitchen.

With Mark's bubble diagram, the bedroom would be long and narrow, possibly with room at one end for reach-in closet space. I like the little vestibule for entering the bath and bedroom — little things like this can add a great deal of privacy.

Don't forget that, especially for the elderly, bathroom doors should open outward, just in case one of them were to pass out.

Is it at all possible to make the entire bathroom a wet room to avoid shower doors and shower thresholds altogether?

Are they gardeners? Be sure there is outdoor space for them to tinker with...and a secluded seating area where they can sit in privacy. Even when you love your kids, you don't want to always be with them!

My husband and I (not retired or elderly) live in a very small house, and critical factors making it the wonderful place it is include high ceilings and many large windows.

I would definitely talk to an architect, as good, efficient design is even more important in small spaces.

Instead of the current layout, I might try a u-shaped kitchen with peninsula and a kitchen table for entertaining. This might also give options for seating at the peninsula if that's what they prefer. Then you can also take space from the great room to make an accessible bathroom. While entertaining space is important, you definitely need to focus on their future needs, like bathrooms.

The place should either be used for overflow parties and entertaining, or a small house for your in-laws, not both. As others have said, while they may enjoy entertaining now, as they age, their needs may and will change.

I agree that instead of trying to design this yourself, to engage an ID or architect experienced in designing for the elderly.

Forget "ageing in place" ... all it takes is knee replacement surgery or a broken leg and they will be griping about that bathroom.

And what if an elderly parishioner needs to use the bathroom? Who is going to help them move from chair to toilet and back?

• 36" wide doors and hallways with turn space.
• A fully ADA-compliant bathroom.
• A kitchen that a person in a walker can use easily.
• A bedroom with enough room on both sides of the bed for a wheelchair.

Then see what's left of your space.

The bonus of a teardown is that you are no longer constrained by the existing dwelling's limitations. Only your city's rules on accessory dwellings and lot setbacks.

Appreciate the feedback. It's tricky within this small space trying to balance what they want now, what they may need in the future, and what someone else may want if we ever moved/just used it for ourselves. I tried to be a little cheeky in the comment that we'll use it for family parties, but that intent really emanates from my in-laws.

For example, I looked at a number of pre-fab designs in a similar space, but the kitchen is almost always much smaller than desired.

Do we need to make it ADA compliant now or perhaps we can make major decisions (like plumbing placement) that would allow us to do that in the future without spending too much money? How many homes are actually ADA compliant?

We are definitely considering a shower without a threshold. If we used a 6x6 bath as first proposed, we'd also consider bifold glass doors that can be folded out of the way entirely. Making the whole room a wet room is a good idea, but does that mean we'd have to move the sink out, or use an all-porcelain/metal one without storage?

Here's another option with a much larger bath, reach-in closet and separate dining area. The great room narrows by 4 ft, but seems offset by the smaller island and walkway requirements.

Where is the washer and dryer?

You don’t seem to get it. You’re not thinking home for a partially able person. You’re still thinking party room for you. And it will be way more expensive to retrofit later to accessible. Some of that retrofitting will be impossible to do at a later time, actually.

The only time you can do a standard 4x4 curbless shower properly is in a full gut, if you have room and do the structural changes needed. The way you’re thinking, it can’t even be done later without another full gut and rearranging of space again. You aren’t even giving the bathroom a single bit of real thought. It’s the most important room here for aging in place.

You have one chance to put your parents first, and they are losing out to your vision of a giant dream kitchen that should go in the main house, not an ADU. Playing with layouts is fun for you, but the results will be terrible for your parents. You need an architect. And to fix those skewed priorities that keep shoving your parents needs to the rear of yours. This isn’t about you.

This is such a nit, but sectionals are terrible pieces of furniture. They look great in floor plans, photographs and HGTV shows. But try to sit people on them. The seating capacity is very limited, since to put a butt on every cushion means people in the corners always have to play kneezies with one another. And the corner cushio is useless except for your adolescents who like to sprawl and put the feet up on the furniture.

Do you know any adult who likes to play kneezies?

Lose the island. If you change to a U-shaped with peninsula, there is still plenty of prep and storage space, plus better clearances for future accessibility. Lose the giant sectional, it overwhelms the living space. Apartment size sofas and armchairs/recliners would work better in a small space. Then you'll have enough room to expand the bathroom to make it accessible.

I like this plan way better. Don't wait on the bathroom. Make it accessible now, while you have the place open and ready. Why build two bathrooms? that's a waste of time, stress and money. One and done! Also, (and I've seen this happen more than once) once you figure out you need the accessible bathroom, it's too late and you wish you'd already done it.

I like that you have a dining space and a bigger bathroom. And that the bathroom is available to visitors. I still think the kitchen is a bit bigger than it needs to be, but that's not a sin.

Have your parents weighed in?

"Do we need to make it ADA compliant now or perhaps we can make major
decisions (like plumbing placement) that would allow us to do that in
the future without spending too much money"

Yes you can do that, but most of being compliant is the width of doors and space for traffic flow and access to facilities. Grab bars are cheap, unless you don't have walls built for them at the right distance from the toilet and tub or shower.

If you don't start with that in mind and design it into the plans, you will have doors that are too small and walls that are in the way and it gets very expensive to do anything.

I don't see anything in any of your plans that would make me comfortable putting my elderly father there. I agree with Sophie, you should really think about your priorities here.

"It's tricky within this small space trying to balance what they want now, what they may need in the future, and what someone else may want if we ever moved/just used it for ourselves."

I was struck by this comment. I think it displays that you haven't really thought through what it will mean to support your folks as they age. And to a certain extent, none of us can predict that with any degree of certainty.

There are some things we can predict. We will all age, until we die. So they aren't going to get more fit or better able to move about and care for themselves. There is absolutely nothing lost by making the bathroom and kitchen ada compliant now. I'm 36 and I prefer comfort height or handicapped toilets. They are just easier. Even my 3 year old can scramble up on them now. As a guest in a home with a beautiful yard and pool, I have no problem using a large shower (many people prefer it) and I can forego my bath for a bit while I stay with you. So there is no compelling reason not to make these compliant right now, and many reasons why you should.

Even though your in-laws still want to host parties, they don't have to do that out of their home. You can offer up your home, sit back, and let them do everything they want! All the storage they need is right across the yard so if they want to cook at their own home, no problem to truck it down the path a few yards. Trust me, I have put out thanksgiving meals for 20-30 out of a 10x10 mobile home kitchen. A good cook can cook *anywhere.* Not to toot my own horn lol.

As for those future buyers or your future guests, they are irrelevant. If you choose to invite someone to age in your home, that is a lifetime commitment no different from bringing a child into your family. If you were having or adopting a child you wouldn't plan the house around future owners. Same concept applies to housing your parents. This will be *their home* until it is no longer desirable/safe for them. However, building an accessible guest house could only be seen as an asset in my eyes.

My elderly father wouldn't need a full kitchen. Just a small fridge, a short run of countertop with a sink, and also space for his microwave, toaster, George Foreman grill, and coffee pot. There would be space in this layout for a full-size washer & dryer. The bathroom would need to be fully accessible, with grab bars at the toilet and in the shower.

His living room furniture would consist of a recliner, TV trays, and his computer desk.

He's 80.

@Sophie.... you may not have read my last post. I'm creating this ADU for my in-laws. They want to prioritize the kitchen and living space, but assuming we continue to provide for them so they can age in place, I need to figure out where to push back in the design - so we don't have to do this again. My comment on using it for parties was in jest, because my wife and I are paying for it, so clearly we should get to use it* *sarcasm, in case you missed that. In all seriousness, that's what my in-laws want now.

I am putting my in-laws first and can only hope you have a son-in-law with priorities as aligned as mine.

Love all the suggestions. I would like to hire an architect, but my wife has too much faith in me, thinking we can save $1500. Penny smart, dollar foolish?

@NJMon - We started the design with a "U" or "G" and will try to come back to that.

@Virgil - I feel the same about a sectional. Just dropped it in here because it looks good. In reality, two couches with a side table or a couple chairs will be the reality.

@homechef (and others) - we didn't add laundry because my in-laws will use ours, across the yard. The property is only 5400 sq. ft., so they don't have far to go. We figure the space is better spend elsewhere.

here's a pre-fab that's close to what we'd want/discussed on this message board, however it's 3 feet wider / 2 feet narrower than ours and has a much smaller kitchen than in-laws desire. Most importantly, the oven should not be that close to the sink.

I'll try to come up with some new designs.

A washer and dryer in house is very important. There's no way my dad (or any of my inlaws) could transport a laundry basket safely across a yard. Mine broke his hip tripping on an uneven brick carrying a yard tool. My MIL (who can RUN at 80!) broke hers tripping on a carpet and falling against a wall. These things happen COMMONLY, no matter how good a shape your parents are in today. So it's very worth thinking about and planning for, because you want to keep them mobile, independent, and healthy for as long as possible. But also, if you ever want to rent it out, or sell it, laundry there would make it much more appealing. It's more important than a dishwasher for an elderly person.

I think it is wonderful that you are making a place for your in-laws to live.

My parents have a wing/small house with us. In case it might help you here are some thoughts.

My parents chose a larger bath and smaller kitchen. We like to have family dinners together in the main house. If there is heavy cooking it happens in the main house kitchen -- my folks like to cook more than they like to clean ;-). One of the features my mother likes is that their kitchen area is in a shallow nook which is open to the living/dining area but still has a sense of separation. Same with the entry, it is small but there are shelves, pegs for coats and a cased opening to the living/dining area.

My parents do not have separate laundry (though could be added in their garage). We don't have a problem combining; actually I think it is easier for us.

If you add just a few feet of depth you will have much more flexibility, so tear down might be something to think about. Have fun and good luck!

my father lived with me for a few months - he had his own bedroom/living room/bath. I totally redid the bathroom for his needs, very low step in shower with shower chair, hand held shower 'wand', grab bars. He used a cane and a rollater to get around. He had a under counter fridge, toaster, and microwave. We shared lunch and supper (he did his own breakfast). He was 100 at the time, then he moved to assisted living (his and my brother's choice) a year later - he lived to be 103.

As a widow, living alone now, I do not cook big meals - if I were going to do so (for a get together/party) I would go next door to grandson's house and cook there. For just me, I use a 2-burner 'hob' induction cook-top, and a Breville (counter top) oven. You might want to research some of these 'smaller' and easier to use cooking options. I also have a microwave (counter-top).

I do not use a bath-tub, but a shower (my knees don't want me in a bath-tub!) As of yet, I do not require grab bars for anything. I am 'aging' in place, and hope to be able to live here (alone, although I miss having a partner) as long as possible - maybe another 5-10 years, if I am fortunate enough to do so. I will be 79 next month.

jobelsobel, my parents initially wanted much more in their kitchen. In the end they opted for a larger bath -- we put in a radiant mat for an extra luxury touch. They got to pick the stove for the main house kitchen, which is open to them any time. But I think what really sold my dad in the end was the idea that they could do their serious cooking/baking and leave the mess behind (though they always clean up)!

I'm not too sure which layout you were going with but I wanted to suggest a wood stove. On the posted layout I would say where that desk and table is between the kitchen and livingroom. On quiet winter evenings when someone doesn't want to just keep the TV running they are nice to sit by. As we get older we get colder and the newer ones require just only a hearth pad below and don't generate heat on the back wall like the older ones and many can generate heat and last for nearly the whole day on one load you would not need a large one for this space and the heater wouldn't have to be ran all winter, you can get one with nice features such as pedestal feet and gold framed door frame etc. it's also a nice spot so that your in-laws can keep hot water on top for humidity as well.

Being elderly does not automatically make you forgetful, or slow, but those are some of the possibilities. I would never put a wood burning stove in an apartment specifically made for aging. Wood fires can be dangerous. We use our wood stove every single night all winter (59 years old). Sometimes, the smoke gets out of hand because the fire won't start right away. I'd hate to think of my very slow moving parents panicking as smoke takes over the room.

I actually know a woman who burned down her house because she cleaned out her fireplace and there were live embers in the ashes. She cleaned the ashes into a cardboard box. She'd owned the house her whole life and was never considered stupid or absent minded. Just that you get a little less sharp as you age.

The fireplace is a great idea! But I think I'd go with electric. Even gas can be a hazard. We can't start our gas fireplace when it is windy out.

Here's a new thought: why don't you add a new "bump-o" addition to the existing footprint for the living area? Make the other spaces fit into the existing footprint...

Regarding including a laundry. Accidents begin to happen. Your parents may not want to share with you the results of these accidents. It always seems to happen in the middle of the night. It doesn't mean they are ready for a nursing home. But, it's embarrassing for them. It's a dignity thing.

Everything you do in your efforts to make this work has to start with an awareness of their safety, dignity and independence, in that order. This is why you need an expert. You don't know what you don't know.

Have the in laws hire the architect or actual designer. One with a CAPS designation. It won’t be $1500. And renovating a ramshackle building won’t be a 100K project either.

Beyond not knowing what you don’t know, you don’t listen either. Not to experts, or even to the older people themselves who tell you how behavior and needs change as you age.

Do you really dislike your in laws so much that you would deliberately plan a pseudo accessible dwelling that cannot be retrofitted to deal with their needs in the future? Because that’s how it’s coming across. You really don’t want them living there. You want your party room. You just want them to pay for it, find it unsuitable, and move elsewhere.

It doesn't sound to me like you don't like your in-laws or are wanting them to end up moving out. It does sound like you're focused on planning for now, rather than looking to the unpredictably future. And it's emotionally hard to think of our parents/in-laws suffering significant physical or mental decline, with all the indignities that come with it. That's another reason to hire a professional - they can and do deal with these realities all the time, and are perhaps better prepared to predict and face them.

It sounds like your wife is the one resistant to an architect, so I would just have a frank conversation with her. How much is she willing to think about and research the potential complications of aging? Does she want to plan for her parents' incontinence, for example? How about one of them being confined to a wheel chair? Or one developing Alzheimers? These are painful things to think through. All of them aren't going to happen, but whoever is going to design the house needs to be willing to think through everything that could happen. And I suspect everyone involved would feel better with a professional being involved, rather than these being conversations between parent and child.

>>>I suspect everyone involved would feel better with a professional being involved, rather than these being conversations between parent and child.

I think it is useful to involve someone with experience designing these kinds of spaces. But I also think if folks are going to live in such close quarters it is very helpful for parents and children to discuss this kind of thing in advance, and to have the kind of relationship that doesn't hamper discussions of this type in the future. YMMV!

First I do think it's quite admirable that you're creating this space for your in-laws. They're lucky to have you.

I would like to hire an architect, but my wife has too much faith in me, thinking we can save $1500. Penny smart, dollar foolish?

Very much penny wise and pound foolish. So far you've proven you don't know what you don't know. You need to work with someone experienced with ADA requirements and stop playing with a CAD program. Having a CAD program doesn't make you an architect anymore than owning a stethoscope makes you a doctor.

we didn't add laundry because my in-laws will use ours, across the yard. The property is only 5400 sq. ft., so they don't have far to go. We figure the space is better spend elsewhere.

And how do you think they are going to in their golden years be able to shlep laundry across to your house? There is a reason when building houses for the elderly they put the laundry NEXT TO the master bedroom. To make it easier to do laundry. Unless you're planning on carrying their laundry back and forth for them?

As others have alluded to, that can become hazardous.

I agree with the others who suggest you hire a professional to have these discussions with you and your in-laws.

Wait... How old are your in-laws? How healthy and active are they currently? What's their current living situation? If they are independent and healthy, they might not be ready to think about aging in place for a decade or more.

A well thought out small house is a very hard thing to design well. A sky scraper is actually easier where there's a lobby floor and 50 identical floors above it.

If this is intended to be the last place they live (unless they need to go to a facility for more extensive care) then they are "aging in place" from the moment they move in!

I would like to hire an architect, but my wife has too much faith in me, thinking we can save $1500. Penny smart, dollar foolish?

Yes! Check out the cost of assisted living. One mistake that has them moving to assisted living even a month early will cost you many times the design fee.

I fell in the tub last summer and sprained my knee. It was a good four months before I was to the point where I could exercise it and start rehabbing it, and I used a rollator walker once I graduated from bed rest and a bedside commode. We had to take our bedroom door off the frame for me to be able to get the walker through at all, and the bathroom required I use the vanity to support me while I pulled the rollator in sideways! I needed it, though, to hold onto to get into and out of the bath for a shower and to sit on while at the sink.

I have been planning my aging-in-place bathroom remodel for years now. I then added widening all bedroom doors to 36" to the project! This will mean moving two walls, as one bedroom does not have a wall I can use to get a 36" door, and I will have to have a diagonal wall made in between the two short walls to get one long enough. My builder came up with the idea of making the opposite bedroom door at the same angle, instead of simply putting it on the wall opening onto the main hall. It will keep its privacy, and "look like we meant to put the doors that way."

My point is that, despite planning for the past three or four years to make a roll-in accessible shower and bathroom vanity, I still had not worked out all the bugs. I ended up tossing my plans for the vanity sink and faucet that I already had bought. Luckily, I can use the sink and faucet in the half bath. The vanity, I am going to have to sell. Instead, I am designing a vanity with my contractor that will meet my unique needs. I can't be having a wall-hung one here as I have terrible knees that need replacing (and may not be able to be replaced due to my anatomical issues) and I tend to grab walls and furniture to hold my weight when they fail me. I will not have wall-hung anything here.

The vanity will be open on the bottom so that I may pull up sitting on my rollator now or in a wheelchair someday. I can slide under the sink to use the sink and faucet, or go next to it and have a shallow counter (the vanity counter is only 16" deep to allow enough room for that 36" entrance door) for doing my hair.

I am not putting a 5' perimeter around the toilet. In my mind, the ADA is written with only wheelchair users in mind. I have been stuck in the ADA bathroom before in an arena where they made one in a former closet. Damn. There was nothing, absolutely nothing within my reach to help me get back up off that commode! THAT is the ADA standard. Strand the crip with bad knees. I need something to push off of with both hands. I have since learned that the top of the plumbing in a commercial style toilet or a tank lid in a regular toilet can give me one point. The toilet seat often has to provide the second, though it helps to have something like a counter or doorknob to grab when I have gotten halfway up. When the standard calls for a 5' empty circle around the toilet, just how is someone without functioning knees supposed to get up off the toilet? In my bathroom I do have room for a 5' turn in one direction. Three of those feet are in the shower, though! However, between the floor space in front of the toilet and the shower beyond that, there is room to turn a wheelchair. If I am using a wheelchair, I will have to slide from the chair onto the toilet at a 90 degree angle. Or use the commode chair.

I hope that my experience helps you to see how a simple accident can change your plans and needs with no warning.

Just for reference per Summit's point, we pay almost $8000 per month (this does not include the cost of Depends or Medicines, which are separate) for assisted living for my MIL in a decent memory care center in the Greater Boston area (there are a lot of gross ones out there too). I'd expect to pay anywhere from $4000-10,000 per month depending on cost of living, around the country. We started at just under 6K/month about 2 years ago. It goes up every year and every time they need new services added. Aging in place is what I will plan for myself, and I will go as far as possible with it on professional advice. Not necessarily ADA compliant, as nancyinmich is smart to point out.

ADA standards, like building code standards, are MINIMUMS! And, by necessity, they are generic, since there are so many illnesses and disabilities. they are a good place to begin. But they, and any other design solutions must be developed using intelligence and good judgment base on individual circumstances.

We are all different. Good design is based on that.

One mistake that has them moving to assisted living even a month early will cost you many times the design fee.

And assisted is not covered by Medicaid or Medicare.

Assisted can run anywhere from $4000 a month on up to $8000 a month depending on where you live and what services you need.

In 2006 - 2010 my F-in-L paid caregivers $14/hour, plus Social Security plus unemployment and disability taxes (insurance) for care from individuals without a nursing service behind them for back-up. This was so he could stay at home with us while we were away at work. His three adult children divided up evenings and weekends so that he was never left alone after he went suddenly blind and had other medical issues happen at age 91. He was lucid through it all, and remained an insightful, funny, and fun guy to be around. He spent only short stints in the nursing home, and caregivers and family kept their shifts going there. He still managed to get C-dif and MRSA!

It's about $25-30/hour now (here) for unskilled (babysitter type) care. Skilled is a different animal.

I keep forgetting to ask, are your parents going to have driveway access to their home? They will need it. Don't expect them to walk across the lawn after any debilitating event.

Almost no one want to plan for their lack of mobility and strength. After all, who really wants to think (or actively plan) about being in a wheelchair?

But it happens. It when it does, it often happens without a lot of prior warning. It really isn't that great a difference between planning for a walker and a wheelchair. But it's a world of difference if one is in a wheelchair and there's insufficient space!

If this was my house, and my parents, I'd plan for a wheelchair and simply not mention it.

50s and 60s -- geez, they're younger than my parents! Of course they are going to prioritize the living and socializing areas over planning for a possible wheelchair-bound future! I would seriously consider tearing down this building and starting over with a larger footprint. That way they can enjoy the next 10-15 years and also have structures in place to support them 20+ years from now.

I agree with Virgil. Anything less is just burying your head in the sand.

I tell the story over and over about my parents. When Mom was 54 and Dad 56, they sold Mom's beloved style of home (a colonial) and moved into a ranch. Granted it was larger and on more land, but it was still a ranch. I asked my Mom why. She said, "We're not getting any younger and we want to plan to stay in our home for as long as possible." Now this was from a woman who went to the gym 5x a week and used her treadmill or walked on the days she didn't go to the gym, ate healthy, never smoked, etc.

Smart woman. At age 72, Mom developed Parkinson's disease. Because she had planned well and created a house that could handle both a walker and wheelchair, she was able to live in the house up until the last 6 months of her life at age 84. The only thing that didn't work well was the showers were not curbless. But back when she remodeled the house back in the mid 80's, I don't think anyone was doing curbless.

You better check before tear down! In our city, if it exists now, it is grandfathered even if setbacks are not to current code. (Distance from lot line, distance from house, ect.) If you tear down and rebuild even using the same foundation and it is not to current code, you cannot build. My son's neighbor was rebuilding an old shed and is unable to rebuild the shed. If he had left just one wall, it would of been considered repair, not rebuilding, and would of been allowed.

Downtown, a developer rebuilt an apartment complex. He left just one wall of the building (no roof left) and was able to redo the entire unit without complying with current setbacks. It was considered repair, not rebuilding.

A good designer / consultant can make an ADA house not "look" like an ADA house if they don't want the threat of aging in their face. Alternatively, they can provide a easy path to wheelchair access with small modifications (things like tucking the plumbing up high under the kitchen sink)

An efficient kitchen and greatroom can give you the feeling of spaciousness. I think you have to have access to the bath from the short hall - maybe even with 2 doors to isolate the bedroom (maybe even a pocket into the bedroom proper and a closing door to the bed / bath combo) just to keep anyone visiting out of the bedroom.

as stated, a small house is really hard to design well. Add in some of the requirements here and you need the skill and creativity of a skilled Architect / ADA consultant, etc. Also as stated - it's an investment in the future.

My 36" doors are for my walker to get through. I am 59, though I have had a bad hand dealt to me with genetically-based disorders. My cousin, the track star, is the same age and has had both hips replaced. She does not have my disorders, she just kept running even after she graduated and stopped competing in collegiate sports.

I may be way off-base here, but...

If your parents are only in their late 50s/early 60s, are they truly ready to give up their independence for a granny flat in their kids' backyard? Or would you go to the effort and expense, only to have them to feel suffocated and move into an apartment for another 20-30 years?

I'm 60, and I'm still not mature enough to have kids (at least of the human kind), let alone be stuffed into a retirement pod!

I apologize if I'm missing something, but unless they have health problems, they're awfully young for this.