Google ‘lift and fold’. I love the end results of these high hydration doughs but they require different handling. I struggle with not instinctively kneading a ton of flour in vigorously.

Hi, I'm not ann_t, and I'd feel better if she answered, but since you're in the midst and I saw this...

I make ann_t's artisan pizza dough a lot, and it's supposed to be high hydration, i.e. very wet - so that's correct. It's too wet to knead in your mixer, you can add the yeast via mixer but then just use the stretch and fold method as Ann describes in the instructions...

Here's a video that shows it done:

Ann (and I, and others) typically do the stretch and fold in the bowl (just leave it in the mixer bowl). Do 4 stretch and folds (one on each quarter turn), then let it rest around 30 minutes or so, covered, then do another. I typically do 4-6 total.

I know you are in the midst of letting it rise, but go ahead and try to do some stretch and folds : ) Hope this helps!

ETA: This method is a different type of kneading.. it's just lifting the dough on the edge, pulling it up, and folding it, and turning the bowl a quarter turn, repeat until all 4 sides are done, let rest covered 30 minutes give or take, then repeat until it resembles regular bread dough. It'll come together without regular kneading, I promise! : )

LOL! Ann T sure has her share of happy apprentices!

How many others here on GW Cooking were inspired by ann_t to make this dough, I'm wondering?

Ok. I figured out what went wrong. I measured out 4 cups of flour by grams - 480 grams (I always measure flour by grams). Then I measured out two cups of water by volume. That was my mistake. If the dough is 70% hydration, then 480 grams x .70 is 336 grams. So basically I should have used 1.5 cups of water (not 2 cups). I think this is how you figure out how much water is required, right? Even with the extra water which made the dough impossible to touch, much less knead, I managed to make a really good pizza and a good focaccia! The dough was very much like Sicilian pizza - lofty, light and airy. It was very bready. Not at all like thin crust pizza. So, next time I make this dough, I will pay more attention to the math!

Sorry. Just got home from work and just seeing this. Looks like you got a lot of help though. Thanks Javiwa for posting the link.

Jerzeegirl , correct me if I am wrong, but if I am understanding right you measured by using a measuring cup and not by weighing. That will really throw off the recipe. The recipe is by weight. Everything is measured in grams on a scale. Different flours measured by cup will not be the same when weighed in grams.

As an example, I just went and weighed four cups of the flour I use and four cups weighed 610g. And I weighed 2 cups of water which was 460g. So if I was adding that to the flour, this would have been at almost 75% hydration. So I imagine that your dough was extremely wet.

If you don't have a scale, I would recommend getting one. They are not expensive. I use the OXO Scale.

I'm glad that your pizza and focacccia turned out well.

This is the recipe that I followed (but cut in half):

8 Cups Bread flour
1 Tablespoon Yeast
1 1/2 Tablespoons Salt
about 4 cups of water
2 Tablespoons olive oil. (optional)
. Mix flour yeast water and oil( Optional) (not salt) together for a
minute and leave for 20 minutes for the water to be partially absorbed.
Add salt and mix for about 30 minutes until the dough comes together
enough to be worked by hand. Continue kneading until smooth. Place in
an large oiled bowl and rub olive oil on top, cover and let rise until
more than doubled. Pour out on to surface and divide into the number of
loafs you require. Do not punch out the air. Shape into loafs, sprinkle
tops with flour and leave to rise on a flour/cornmeal dusted surface.
Heat tile/stones in oven to 500 degrees while bread is rising. Slide
loafs on to hot stone and spray with cold water, three times, three
minutes apart. Lower heat to 450° and bake for about 30 minutes. (I can
do two loafs at a time in the oven on a large stone).

I always use a scale to measure the flour, but I didn't use a scale to weigh the water at 70% so my hydration was off by quite a bit. In spite of being totally unmanageable dough - I couldn't knead it even if I wanted to - it really didn't matter. How interesting is that since the pizza came out great!

Thanks everyone, and Ann T, for helping me out1

You must have found that recipe on an old Cooking forum post.

I'm not surprised that your pizza turned out great. The recipe you used is one that I used for many years. It really is a wet dough. It was more of an Italian Ciabatta style bread. I haven't used that recipe since 2014 when I got into the stretch and fold method. And different hydrations. And I started to use a scale to weigh everything, including salt and yeast.

I hope you will give this other recipe a try. Makes great baguettes as well as pizza. And you can adjust the hydration to suit yourself.

I will definitely try the other recipe. I make pizza once a week, but I am definitely liking the focaccia too!

ETA: I like the stretch and folk method - I use it to make my whey boules.