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apell2000

Facelift or Divorce this Kitchen?

apell2000
6 years ago
last modified: 6 years ago

Our house is 12 years old. We are thinking of selling it in the next year or so. Our neighorhood has lots of new construction that we would be competing against that all have the new bright white kitchens with shaker cabinets. Older homes with stained cabinets are not selling as quickly as the new homes. The kitchen is in sort of a u-formation with the cooking range to the left, the fridge, ovens and the island in the middle, and the black china cabinet wall to the right. The cabinets are a rustic knotted cherry wood. The black wall of cabinets is also knotted cherry wood that has been painted black with a slight distressed look (remember when that was cool?) Black hides the knots but not sure an all black kitchen is the way to go here because it would be very dark. What is not pictured is the kitchen table & windows which can stay as they are. What can be salvaged here? Would you rip out the cabinets and maybe save the Dacor appliances and Bosch dishwasher? We definitely would like a wider island all one level (no high bar). Do we divorce this kitchen and replace it with a new beautiful model? Or do you think a facelift might make us fall in love again? Help us Houzz counselors!






Comments (40)

  • Elle
    6 years ago

    Even though the natural cabinetry wood is pretty in its natural state, I would have it professionally painted off-white, particularly assuming the flooring is staying as is.

    apell2000 thanked Elle
  • Helen
    6 years ago

    You are not going to get back the cost of a remodeled kitchen if you sell in a year.

    Consult a realtor in terms of what FMV would be for kitchen in present condition versus remodeled kitchen.

    Your kitchen seems in good shape and you haven't pointed out any horrendous layout issues.

    It's not a style I personally would select but frankly a white Shaker cabinet with other cliched design elements wouldn't be the kitchen of my personal choice either and if I were buying I would rather move into an older kitchen that didn't need immediately remodeling like yours rather than into a spanking new kitchen that wasn't my style and which I couldn't possibly justify remodeling for the next 15 or 20 years :-)

    I'm currently remodeling but my kitchen is well past the expired date functionally and secondarily aesthetically. Spending the $30,000 to $40,000 for a remodel just because it was no longer fashionable isn't in my mindset. However I understand different strokes for different folks and mine is not necessarily the only way to approach remodeling.

    So there is the economic decision in which it probably makes no economic sense to remodel a kitchen which is going to be sold in a year because you wouldn't make back the costs in that time period. However, if you want to spend your discretionary income on a more aesthetically pleasing kitchen that's a perfectly fine lifestyle choice.

    apell2000 thanked Helen
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  • deegw
    6 years ago

    I'd paint and try to pry off some of the fussy decorative elements and leave it. You won't recoup all the expense but you'll enjoy the kitchen for a year and your house will sell faster.

    apell2000 thanked deegw
  • jhmarie
    6 years ago

    You won't be competing with the new builds unless you try to price your home as a new build. Even if you paint the cabinets, it still is not a new home with new systems - roof, heating, and AC etc. Some may question (I would) the durability of a paint job done to sell a home.

    I would probably do nothing but clean very well. If this is a neighborhood that people want to move into, getting into it at the lower price of an older but still attractive home will be a good deal to many. My nephew and his wife are looking for a new home and tired of the ubiquitous white / black kitchens they have seen. That might not be the case in your area, but pricing the home correctly is the best way to sell it quickly.

    I don't think there is a huge number of people interested in an all black kitchen. It can be stunning to some, but it takes a certain style to live with it.

    apell2000 thanked jhmarie
  • User
    6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    That is not a midgrade 64K average kitchen to redo. That’s a 130K average upscale one. To get 0 back in resale. You wouldn’t even get back the 9-15K that it would take for the weeks of sanding and prep to properly cost those cabinets with a professional grade conversion varnish. Even a hack slapping on house paint is gonna want 5-6K for that. And it would likely not be the best looking job by the time it went up for sale.

    http://www.remodeling.hw.net/cost-vs-value/2018/


    Theres nothing too objectionable about that kitchen that a new buyer would run from.

    https://www.curbed.com/2018/3/7/17087588/home-renovation-unnecessary-mcmansion-hell-wagner

    Clean it. Price it right. And move on to your next house.

    apell2000 thanked User
  • hollybar
    6 years ago

    Since you are selling in a year,no remodel. The cost of an excellent paint job won't be recouped,the cost of a mediocre paint job will hurt your resale. Do make sure of undercab lighting,a declutter, and a deep clean prior to listing.

    apell2000 thanked hollybar
  • mnmamax3
    6 years ago

    I agree with d_gw, try to remove some of the fussy elements... If you have a good cabinet person they could redo the twisty supports with nice solid posts and remove/re-stain where the swirls and designs are. We went from this...

    to this...

    Ours was already mostly painted (and I would NOT suggest painting yours, your wood is beautiful!) but I'm pointing out what new hardware and some minor changes can look like. They redid our crown moulding and all the wood-tone cabinetry in the center (though they could have just rebuilt the columns to remove the fluting.

    You have beautiful granite, great appliances, neutral backsplash and what appears to be a good layout. Don't waste the $!

    apell2000 thanked mnmamax3
  • OneRidgeOff
    5 years ago

    I’m with Helen on all points- I’d rather buy your house in it’s current state than pay a premium for someone else’s vision of their dream kitchen. I also wouldn’t want to live with the weeks/months of chaos of kitchen Reno for the relatively short time you plan to live there.

    In fact, I think your cabinet wood grain is gorgeous and wouldn’t change it. Would be disappointed to see it painted! Outside of the Houzz bubble I know plenty of people who still prefer stained cabinets to painted.

    apell2000 thanked OneRidgeOff
  • friedajune
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    I am with the people who say leave it alone. I wouldn't even remove the "fussy elements" because that will be a slippery slope. The removal of, say, the scrolly corbels - but you still need corbels there for support so what would you do. Or removal of the curlicue decorations, but then you'll need to sand and refinish those spots, and they'll look different from the rest of the finish. Painting all the cabinets properly would be a huge and expensive undertaking; painting them on the cheap will look exactly that. I'd leave alone.

    You don't know what a potential buyer might want in a kitchen - they may want an ultra-contemporary Poggenpohl kitchen, or a cottage-y kitchen, or they may think your kitchen as is looks fine (not everyone is kitchen-obsessed like the people on this forum). You'll never recoup money you spend on it, since it looks fine. You should SEE some of the gross kitchens we see on here by comparison.

    Regarding concern about your neighbors' kitchens - if they spent $40-100k to re-do their kitchens, they may get a portion of that back in re-sale; their homes will sell for higher than yours (assuming all else equal) which they deserve for the expenditure of the new kitchen. Your home will have to be priced accordingly lower than that. But then you won't have spent all those thousands, not to mention the stress, aggravation, and months of renovation, so are you really worse off.

    apell2000 thanked friedajune
  • RaiKai
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    Nope. Price it right and it will sell. And you might actually be able to walk away with some cash instead of with nothing after factoring what you need to spend on a kitchen reno.

    12 years is not at ALL a long time for a kitchen. I imagine it is in good shape (looks to be) and it looks functional. That style may not appeal to many *today* (admittedly it is too fussy and heavy for me) but it was also very popular at that time: dark cherry wood, dark granite, etc...it reflects what was “in” at the time just like in 12 years today’s white shaker cabinet kitchens will (including my own in my new house, lol). I remember well when something like your kitchen was THE desired kitchen. I also toured quite a few new homes that still had traditional kitchen styling and dark cabinets - all of which sold - so it is not like there is NO market for them.

    A good professional repainting will cost $$$ and you won’t likely get it back as you still have the more traditional style. And you need to live through that hassle for no real benefit. Again, price right and new owners can repaint if they want.

    ETA: Honestly if it were priced right I would happily live with your kitchen for many years. I might as a new owner paint the stained cabinets an antique white, but I could not justify completely taking out beautiful and still in great shape/functional wood cabinets even if not my usual style! I am a believer that the house dictates what is right for it, and trying to force something different makes everything seem out of sync. Oh and I WOULD fix/replace that crown molding piece in first photo to be flush as it would drive me nuts ;)

    apell2000 thanked RaiKai
  • PRO
    Patricia Colwell Consulting
    5 years ago

    IMO you will waste money that will never be recovered ,list knowing that that kitchen is dated beyond beleif and any buyer will make an offer that reflects that. Get out and enjoy your next home without trying to fix something for that imaginary buyer.

    apell2000 thanked Patricia Colwell Consulting
  • K Laurence
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    If you’re thinking of selling in a year or so just leave it alone. A silly waste of money. Who knows? Maybe a prospective buyer will love it. You can’t predict what will sell your house. One of my previous homes sold because the husband LOVED our very upgraded oversized garage! Every buyer in my neighborhood remodels the kitchen after ( or usually before ) moving in anyway.

    apell2000 thanked K Laurence
  • apple_pie_order
    5 years ago

    Leave it alone. Bring in a stager when you are ready to sell in a year. She'll suggest changing the pendant lighting and the accessories, not painting the cabinets.

    apell2000 thanked apple_pie_order
  • Judy Mishkin
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    jhmarie said it succinctly:

    "You won't be competing with the new builds unless you try to price your home as a new build."

    leave it as it is, folks can buy it for less than a new build and make it their own, either with some paint or with $100K redo.

    apell2000 thanked Judy Mishkin
  • deegw
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    If it would make YOU happy to paint the kitchen, I would do it.

    Based on what you said about your market, it sounds like a painted kitchen would be appealing to buyers. The upside is that you will enjoy your newish kitchen for a year and your house will sell more quickly. You won't recoup the painting costs.

    apell2000 thanked deegw
  • OneRidgeOff
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    Right on Friedajune. Dated beyond belief? Hardly. Patricia would have a stroke in my real estate market, where people are still installing honey oak cathedral arch cabinets, realtors call it updated (because it is! Compared to what it replaced) and home buyers buy them! This is not an urban legend lol I can think of two recent homes that sold like this in my market.

    Not to say this is the case in the OPs market. No matter your stance on painted or stained cabinets, I think the main point made by most in this thread is a kitchen Reno doesn’t make economic sense in this case.

    apell2000 thanked OneRidgeOff
  • K R
    5 years ago

    I agree! A year is not long enough. Price it right and either you find a buyer that likes all the 'fussy' custom elements (they do still exist!) or someone will come in and make it their own. I have 3 years to go before my last kid goes off to college and we are going through a remodel now, but I really had to convince myself of it and decide it was more for my enjoyment than a future buyer's.

    apell2000 thanked K R
  • tackykat
    5 years ago

    I think the cabinets are beautiful on their own and painting would be a waste. I don't understand all the cabinetry above the cooktop. Seems like it would be in the way. If I bought that house, I would investigate removing all that, because it would open up that wall a lot, but I could live with everything else.

    apell2000 thanked tackykat
  • User
    5 years ago

    Since you're going to sell in a year, I would leave it alone. You won't get your money back from whatever you do in that kitchen and like others have said, I would rather have a kitchen I can remodel (if I want) than someone else's "ideal" kitchen.

    apell2000 thanked User
  • mark_rachel
    5 years ago

    I wouldn't spend very much if you are selling in a year. I would think about replacing the ornate corbels with something more simple.

    apell2000 thanked mark_rachel
  • Rita / Bring Back Sophie 4 Real
    5 years ago

    I for one am grateful for pros who bother to come to this forum and share their knowledge with me. Finding people willing to do good work these days is a challenge and I for one can use all the education I can get in order to be more effective in my dealings and decisions.

    I appreciate writing that is clear and entertaining. One need not agree with everything a pro says. Disagreeing with how a pro modifies the word dated though- yikes folks- the kitchen is dated- an example of what happens when people chase trends whole heartedly- and I don't even hate that kitchen, btw- it holds a strange appeal to me- but it is dated- and the adverb 'horribly' is hardly offensive to my sensibilities.

    apell2000 thanked Rita / Bring Back Sophie 4 Real
  • PRO
    Urbilis
    5 years ago

    I vote for paint the cabinets and remove decorative appliques/moldings when possible. A fresh coat of white or off-white, new pulls and stools will make a huge difference in the appearance of an otherwise solid kitchen!

    apell2000 thanked Urbilis
  • mjlb
    5 years ago

    Piling on... Leave it alone. But if I bought your house, I would have same impulse as tackycat... I'd remove the bulk over the range, and possibly repaint the black cabinets. No way would I make major changes to a recent high-end kitchen.

    apell2000 thanked mjlb
  • apell2000
    Original Author
    5 years ago

    As the author of the post, I just wanted to let you know that I appreciate everyone's comments. No offense is taken. I have occasionally called my kitchen a few names too. Based on the comments so far, it sounds like a divorce (remodel) would be too expensive and I would not recover the money. I appreciate the comments about new pendant lighting and accessories. Anything else? Should we do new backsplash or counters? Are those fine too? Or is a lower price that reflects the age of the home ultimately what you feel will help it sell? Thank you to everyone for all your advice.

  • Judy Mishkin
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    price can be everything. there will be shoppers who have a particular dream kitchen in mind... and will be delighted to buy an otherwise great house that does NOT have someone else's newly done dream kitchen already priced in.

    case in point: when i was house shopping 9 years ago there was a house with this AMAZING icy green and white kitchen. looked like from something on the story side of houzz. and i hated it. so i didnt buy the house, instead bought one $35K less that had a dowdy kitchen which needed a total demo.

    (and made it my own.

    you can see why i didnt like the icy green modern kitchen.)



    i'm completely sympathetic with you, and it will be tough for you to price your house below the new builds, but thats the nature of the beast. not even a total redo of your kitchen will make your home just like a brand new one.

    your backsplash is not offensive to me, its no worse than the rest (and to me, better than the rest.) i'd leave that $2K in your pocket.



    apell2000 thanked Judy Mishkin
  • OneRidgeOff
    5 years ago

    I say no new backsplash or counters- that’s another minefield of trying to guess the future owners taste.

    apell2000 thanked OneRidgeOff
  • User
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    If you are just itching to make changes, then I would remove the entire hood building and exchange. It has its own zip code. Put up a great looking metal hood. Maybe copper. With some bands. Ask the cabinet guy that does that about the frou frou posts on the range top run. It might be able to be modified with a simple spice pullnout covered in sheet copper to match the hood if he has some skills.

    And those corbels under the overhang might be similarly changed. Maybe. I wouldn’t sweat it if not. It’s the hood that is so overwhelming. And the black hole cabinets. But those can be fixed with more lighting.

    Change the pendants. Add under cabinet lighting. And be done.

    apell2000 thanked User
  • Helen
    5 years ago

    mnmamax - And indeed different strokes for different folks because I actually prefer the warmth of the kitchen in its original iteration to the after shot. The original isn't to my taste but I would not pay a premium for the remodeled kitchen. I would prefer to pay less and live with a kitchen for which I could justify adding my own finishes as I would dislike knowing I was paying more for a new kitchen not to my taste and which I couldn't justify changing in any substantive way and for which remodel would be so far in the future in terms of economic justification, that I would have to live with it for the foreseeable future :-) Not that the end result is an ugly kitchen and many would like it - just underscoring that spending money in the hopes that a mythical buyer is going to love it isn't necessarily the best economic option.

    Of course there is a market for flips - in my building people will buy truly outdated units at a price that reflects their condition - and which objectively do need a major remodel - and make a profit. However, these people are able to do it wholesale so to speak since they are experienced remodelers who have connections with the trade and their end product reflects the impersonal nature of their design choices - everything is what is currently on trend and therefore is going to appeal to that segment of the market which wants to move right in without hassle immediately. Other people buy the fixer uppers in my building and remodel to their own taste - while the cost of the unit might reflect the condition of the unit, it's less of an economic decision since in that situation someone isn't looking to make a profit as soon as the remodel is complete but is remodeling to suit their tastes and needs for a longer term.

    In terms of OP's question regarding changing counter, it's difficult to tell from the picture if there is something objectively horrendous about it or whether it just doesn't reflect your personal style. I would prefer to pay less and either live with the counter or know that I could afford to swap to the exact style I want - or I might actually like the counter and want to spend money on either things - or just invest the savings.

    Of course, a real estate agent is the one to consult regarding what relatively inexpensive changes should be made so that the house shows as well as possible and for which the cost can be justified as a rational economic decision.

    apell2000 thanked Helen
  • tqtqtbw
    5 years ago

    Is there lighting over by the black cabinets, ceiling and under the cabinets onto the counters? Your kitchen is nicely done.

    apell2000 thanked tqtqtbw
  • PRO
    BeverlyFLADeziner
    5 years ago

    I'm sure there's a market for a home with a kitchen that might resemble one by Paula Deen. See below. Maybe instead of thinking of the kitchen as a problem, market it as something unique in the neighborhood.

    The only issue I see in your kitchen is that the kitchen looks like you spent $150k and the pendant lights look like they cost $25. I would up their appearance to complete the look.

    apell2000 thanked BeverlyFLADeziner
  • DrB477
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    Agree with sophie. If you want to do something, get rid of the monstrosity over the rangetop and replace it with a nice looking metal hood. it would make a big difference. Maybe swap out the posts and corbels if it is easily done, but they won't be that bad if you could address the hood. the pendants could be easily swapped out too.

    or do nothing and get your kitchen divorce in a year... that would be fine too.

    apell2000 thanked DrB477
  • PRO
    Anglophilia
    5 years ago

    Do nothing! Your divorce from this kitchen will come at house closing. Price it right and it will sell. No one wants to pay for someone else's remodeling dream.

    apell2000 thanked Anglophilia
  • miss lindsey (She/Her)
    5 years ago

    Both my husband and I would choose this kitchen over the current 1000 shades of grey, or even stark cold white on white on white. It wouldn't be my first choice, but it wouldn't be a deal breaker either.

    So I'm in the do nothing camp.

    I'm no real estate expert, but it sounds like lots in your area are getting built up quickly. Soon, space to build may be gone but the neighbourhood will still be desirable. The older homes may be more in demand as space to build runs out.

    apell2000 thanked miss lindsey (She/Her)
  • mnmamax3
    5 years ago

    Helen - I understand your point and agree that I would rather settle for something on the cheap, than pay extra for something I don't like. I was trying to illustrate a big change for a small cost - like the lighting upgrades people are suggesting. I really like all the finishes in the OP's kitchen (wood, counters and backsplash) and they work well together.

    I think being able to remove some of the "fussy" details would help make the home (soon to be for sale) appeal to a wider variety of buyers. That said, cherry darkens with time and it's possible newly exposed wood or rebuilt elements would not match existing cabinetry. A reputable cabinet shop could help the OP decide if the cost and variation is worth changing up the wood parts at all.

    apell2000 thanked mnmamax3
  • lucky998877
    5 years ago

    I would add white on the back of your black built-in (in the glass areas), and add the same tone white as your trim as a back splash. It will give it more dimension and life.

    The whole hood wooden box is too much.


    apell2000 thanked lucky998877
  • artistsharonva
    5 years ago

    It's a sellers market in most places.

    I'm a real estate agent.

    Many agents will suggest remodeling for fast sale for a fast commission. But what matters is the seller's net return. Most the time seller's never recoup their remodel for sale. It's an unnecessary stress & waste of $. Just take off a little if asked. They might not even ask if the demand is high.

    Just make sure to get your home on MLS where the buyers agents look. Always offer the going commssion rate to buyer's agent,so they'll show the home.

    Save your $ for your new home.

    apell2000 thanked artistsharonva
  • Tosca Necoechea
    5 years ago
    If you are selling in a year, you might be really busy for that year anyway, especially if you don't already own the property that you're going to move into.
    apell2000 thanked Tosca Necoechea
  • User
    5 years ago

    I recently bought a house from 1980 that had been well-maintained, but not updated. There were several houses also from 1980 in the neighborhood that had been updated and were selling for much more money. I purposely chose the "older" house so that all the updates would be my choosing. The updated houses generally did not reflect my likes and style. I paid less for purchasing the older style house because the owners of the updated houses expected me to pay for their updates that I didn't want. The older style house became a blank slate for me. We gutted all the bathrooms and kitchen and put the "savings" from the purchase price into the "updates" that I wanted.

    I'm doing the same for the house I am selling. Not updating and will sell cheaper than my neighbors. Buyers get to choose what and how they update.

    apell2000 thanked User
  • OneRidgeOff
    5 years ago

    Exact same scenario that Nel described above, 1982 house well maintained just original kitchen and baths. Well below the price of the updated homes in my neighborhood. I chose for the same reason, remodel to my liking.

    One other thought, my area has a severe skilled labor shortage, all of the good contractors have lengthy waiting lists. And kitchens always take longer than you think, even if your contractor is ready to go now.

    I still say, clean, de clutter, repair anything non-functioning, sell as is.

    apell2000 thanked OneRidgeOff