The Holey Grail of Bread, thank you ann_t!
ann_t, you’ve been incredibly patient, teaching me – and others, to make artisan dough, pizza on the grill, bread baking on the grill, and grilling tips for other foods, as well as answering my many questions and offering wonderful tips – thank you! I’ve come a long way with your tutelage and excellent advice…
For artisan bread makers, the ‘holey’ grail are those huge cavernous holes in the crumb that ann_t is so amazingly and consistently successful with. Ok, some might argue it’s the unique slash marks, or the crunch of the crust, while ‘purists’ would suggest it’s the flavor… which of course, is what truly counts, but I think it’s all of those.
Somehow, by pure quirk of fate and happenstance, I managed to succeed in the much sought-after huge holes yesterday! I had ann-t’s high-hydration pizza/artisan dough (which I encourage anyone interested in Artisan bread-making to try) in the fridge but other meals planned, so decided to make a small batard, baking it on the grill (my first bread-grilling effort). After a nice 2nd rise with lovely air pockets I was preparing to take the bread to the grill and a pounding on the front door somehow caused me to roll the bread on it’s top, deflating the air pockets and my confidence. It was the ‘fill dirt guy’ for our backyard, so I had no choice but to transfer the dough hurriedly onto the grill, and tromp about the yard, sneaking peeks at the timer with anxious glances.
Long story short (ha!), the batard resembled a curved baked potato. I was deflated, as I knew my bread surely was. 2 hours later and a single slice with a sharp knife I found myself doing the Dance of Happiness, shouting praises to the bread gods, our grill, fate, the fill dirt guy, and ann_t! … Deep chasms! Airy voids! Crumb craters!
How? I’ll never know, but I’ve scheduled the fill dirt guy to drop by weekly.
Thank you, ann_t : )
Do you have the secret to Holey Bread?
Comments (32)
2ManyDiversions
6 years agolast modified: 6 years agoRelated Discussions
WANTED: On insight and caring across the net -- thanks AnnT
Comments (57)Another one that has one of those cool boards. I know you will love it Adele. I have a set of those cards too and just can't bring myself to use them either....I'm thinking framing and hanging in the kitchen. Enjoy it all! I'll be awaiting a recipe from the books too. Great package Ann! David...See MoreBread and Bagels, thanks to Ann T
Comments (16)Teri, it was the bread mix, the package says it makes batgels, pizza and pie crust too. Also has directions for cheese bread, whole "wheat", three seed bread, cinnamon bread and herb bread. The ingredient list says: Sorghum Flour, Tapioca Flour, White Rice Flour, sweet rice flour, brown rice flour, organic evaporated cane sugar, chicory root, millet flour, molasses, rice bran, sea salt, xanthan gum and yeast packets. So, it appears to be a gluten free flour mixture, although it does contain salt and molasses in addition to the flours. It has enough ingredients to make 6 loaves, I think, in the package. I didn't use the yeast packet because I didn't realize they was in there until I'd already measured in my own. LOL. LC46, I don't see any reason why your basic GF bread dough wouldn't make bagels, the directions for "egg free" bread are basically the same as the directions for bagels, except they get boiled for 25 seconds, then drained with a slotted spoon and baked on a greased baking sheet. Be sure to let us know how they turn out, because when I run out of this stuff, I'll probably buy something else, Elery got this on-line, I think from Amazon. Thank you David, I'll tell Ashley you said she's cute. (grin) Ann T, Cooper is smart and friendly and handsome, but what in the world did you do about all that hair? It's everywhere and I brush him every day. Annie...See MoreAnnT - French bread question...
Comments (3)Petra, the original recipe calls for 3 1/2 cups of flour. I've always used four cups. You can get a great baguette using that recipe. BUT, over the years I've made adjustments, using a biga, adjusting the yeast, adding more water, leaving the dough in the fridge from two or six days, doubling and tripling the amount of flour, reducing the amount of yeast, etc... See Notes at the end of the recipe in RED. Basically bread is just flour, salt, yeast and water. It is easy to adapt and very forgiving. About the only thing you can do wrong is use hot water and kill the yeast. Or over proof a shaped loaf. French Baguette Julia Child 1 package dry active yeast (2 1/2 teaspoons) 3 1/2 cups unbleached flour (bread flour) 2 1/4 tsp salt 1 1/3 cups cold water plus 1/3 or so additional water Using Food Processor Place the flour, yeast and salt in the bowl of the food process. Pulse to mix. Add 1 1/3 cups of water and process until the dough comes together. If the dough doesn't form a ball, add a little of the extra water. Process for about 60 seconds, turn off machine and let dough rest for 5 minutes. Turn on the machine again and rotate the dough about 30 times under the cover, and then remove it to a lightly floured work surface. it should be fairly smooth and quite firm. Let the dough rest for 2 minutes and then knead roughly and vigorously. The final dough should not stick to your hands as you knead (although it will stick if you pinch and hold a piece); it should be smooth and elastic and, when you hold it up between your hands and stretch it down, it should hold together smoothly. Preliminary rise - 40 to 60 minutes at around 75°F. Place the dough into a clean dry bowl, (do not grease the bowl), cover with plastic wrap, and set in a warm place free from drafts. (note the French do not grease the bowl because they believe the dough needs a seat to push up from). This first rise is sufficient when the dough has definitely started to rise and is about 1 1/2 times its original volume. Deflating: Turn the dough onto your lightly floured work surface roughly and firmly pat and push it out into a 14 inch rectangle. Fold one of the long sides over toward the middle, and the other long side over to cover it, making a 3 layer cushion. Repeat the operation. This important step redistributes the yeast throughout the dough, for a strong second rise. Return the dough smooth side up the bowl; cover with plastic wrap and again set to rise. Final rise in the bowl - about 1 to 1 1/2 hours or longer. The bread should be 2 1/2 to 3 times its original bulk. It is the amount of rise that is important here, not the timing. To Shape, Cut the dough in half. Set one piece aside and cover with a towel. On a lightly floured work surface pat the dough into a 14 inch rectangle, squaring it u p as evenly as you can. Fold the rectangle of dough in half lengthwise and using the heel of your hand, firmly press the edges together whether they meet. Seat well. Pound the dough flat. Now repeat - patting the dough out again and folding it over and sealing the edges. Pinch the edges well and Rotate the dough so that the sealed edge in on the bottom. Repeat with second piece of dough. Cover with plastic wrap or loosely with a towel and let rise to more than double again at about 75°f. Place stone in oven and Preheat oven to 450°F. Slash three long cuts into the loaves and place on the hot stone. Spray loaves with water and immediately toss a number of ice cubes on to the bottom on the oven to create steam. Spray again two or three times, 3 minutes a part. Bake until bread is golden and has an interior temp of 200°F. Takes about 30 minutes. Making Dough in a Mixer or by Hand When you are making dough in an electric mixer with a dough hook, proceed in the same general way with the rests indicated, and finish by hand. or mix the dough by hand in a bowl, turn out on a work surface, and start the kneading by lifting it up with a scraper and slapping it down roughly for several minutes until it has body. Let it rest several minutes and then proceed to knead. MY NOTES: I use a Magic Mill to do most of the kneading. The Magic Mill can handle over 20 cups of flour at one time. I use 4 cups for a single batch and 8 cups for a double batch Plus the addition of a Biga. I prefer a wet dough so I add more water. I usually start this bread with a Biga (Italian)/Poolish (French) a pre-fermentation. Made the night before. Contributes to a more complex flavour and a better texture. 1 1/2 cups flour 1/2 teaspoon yeast 1 cup of water. Mix well. Cover and set aside. Other changes: I mix the Biga, Flour, Yeast and water together,without the salt, and let sit for 20 to 30 minutes to allow the flour to absorb some of the water. I add the salt after this rest, and then finish by kneading. This dough makes for a wonderful pizza crust. Place dough in fridge and leave it for two to four, even five days. Take it out early (three hours) to give it time to come to room temperature. Allowing the dough to have a long cold fermentation really develops the flavour and the texture of the bread. EDITED NOVEMBER 2012: I now reduce the amount of yeast called for in the original recipe. When doubling the amount of flour to eight cups of flour and 1 1/2 cups of biga, I use just three teaspoons of yeast. OPTIONAL: Add Cranberries and Pistachios...See MoreBread Question for Ann T. Please
Comments (7)Trudy, I would use the recipe that Linda linked to. You can make the baguettes, long or short, or make short fat loaves if that will work better for you. I often do double or triple batches of the dough and bake loaves of different sizes and shapes. French Baguette Julia Child 1 package dry active yeast (2 1/2 teaspoons) 3 1/2 cups unbleached flour (bread flour) 2 1/4 tsp salt 1 1/3 cups cold water plus 1/3 or so additional water Using Food Processor Place the flour, yeast and salt in the bowl of the food process. Pulse to mix. Add 1 1/3 cups of water and process until the dough comes together. If the dough doesn't form a ball, add a little of the extra water. Process for about 60 seconds, turn off machine and let dough rest for 5 minutes. Turn on the machine again and rotate the dough about 30 times under the cover, and then remove it to a lightly floured work surface. it should be fairly smooth and quite firm. Let the dough rest for 2 minutes and then knead roughly and vigorously. The final dough should not stick to your hands as you knead (although it will stick if you pinch and hold a piece); it should be smooth and elastic and, when you hold it up between your hands and stretch it down, it should hold together smoothly. Preliminary rise - 40 to 60 minutes at around 75�F. Place the dough into a clean dry bowl, (do not grease the bowl), cover with plastic wrap, and set in a warm place free from drafts. (note the French do not grease the bowl because they believe the dough needs a seat to push up from). This first rise is sufficient when the dough has definitely started to rise and is about 1 1/2 times its original volume. Deflating: Turn the dough onto your lightly floured work surface roughly and firmly pat and push it out into a 14 inch rectangle. Fold one of the long sides over toward the middle, and the other long side over to cover it, making a 3 layer cushion. Repeat the operation. This important step redistributes the yeast throughout the dough, for a strong second rise. Return the dough smooth side up the bowl; cover with plastic wrap and again set to rise. Final rise in the bowl - about 1 to 1 1/2 hours or longer. The bread should be 2 1/2 to 3 times its original bulk. It is the amount of rise that is important here, not the timing. To Shape, Cut the dough in half. Set one piece aside and cover with a towel. On a lightly floured work surface pat the dough into a 14 inch rectangle, squaring it u p as evenly as you can. Fold the rectangle of dough in half lengthwise and using the heel of your hand, firmly press the edges together whether they meet. Seat well. Pound the dough flat. Now repeat - patting the dough out again and folding it over and sealing the edges. Pinch the edges well and Rotate the dough so that the sealed edge in on the bottom. Repeat with second piece of dough. Cover with plastic wrap or loosely with a towel and let rise to more than double again at about 75�f. Place stone in oven and Preheat oven to 450�F. Slash three long cuts into the loaves and place on the hot stone. Immediately toss a number of ice cubes on to the bottom on the oven to create steam. Bake until bread is golden and has an interior temp of 200�F. Takes about 30 minutes. Making Dough in a Mixer or by Hand When you are making dough in an electric mixer with a dough hook, proceed in the same general way with the rests indicated, and finish by hand. or mix the dough by hand in a bowl, turn out on a work surface, and start the kneading by lifting it up with a scraper and slapping it down roughly for several minutes until it has body. Let it rest several minutes and then proceed to knead. MY NOTES: I use a Magic Mill to do most of the kneading. The Magic Mill can handle over 20 cups of flour at one time. I use 4 cups for a single batch and 8 cups for a double batch Plus the addition of a Biga. I prefer a wet dough so I add more water. I usually start this bread with a Biga (Italian)/Poolish (French) a pre-fermentation. Made the night before. Contributes to a more complex flavour and a better texture. 1 1/2 cups flour 1/2 teaspoon yeast 1 cup of water. Mix well. Cover and set aside. Other changes: I mix the Biga, Flour, Yeast and water together,without the salt, and let sit for 20 to 30 minutes to allow the flour to absorb some of the water. I add the salt after this rest, and then finish by kneading. This dough makes for a wonderful pizza crust. Place dough in fridge and leave it for two to four, even five days. Take it out early (three hours) to give it time to come to room temperature. Allowing the dough to have a long cold fermentation really develops the flavour and the texture of the bread....See More2ManyDiversions
6 years agolast modified: 6 years ago2ManyDiversions
6 years agolast modified: 6 years ago
writersblock (9b/10a)
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dcarch7 d c f l a s h 7 @ y a h o o . c o m
6 years ago2ManyDiversions thanked dcarch7 d c f l a s h 7 @ y a h o o . c o m2ManyDiversions
6 years ago2ManyDiversions
6 years agoann_t, you saw the shine! As my bread mentor, I sure wanted you do see my progress and am thrilled you popped in! I had a better photo showing the shine but didn’t upload it. I let this bread rise the same time, but the difference was the pizza stone and the grill – sure hope I can replicate it as we enjoyed in so much this weekend!
I think you’ve done an amazing job at describing the uses of the pockets/holes, the flavor difference, texture difference.
dcarch, as always, your words are so kind – thank you. I agree, a bread with only massive holes would be useless. It needs ‘pockets’! I admit, I am proud of this loaf.
Ricky (fawnbridge), I’d never heard of ‘voonge’ but clearly I do it, a lot! We used this loaf to voonge gravy and bits from beef tips : ) Thank you for the kudos!
Photos for uploading · More Infomamapinky0 – wonderful descriptions of ciabatta and artisan breads – makes me hungry for it right now – and how blessed you are to have a bakery to make it for you!
I like all breads – white and whole wheat sandwich for our lunches, and eggs on toast, savory for cheese and herb breads, uber-soft Hokkaido for melt-in-the-mouth dinner rolls and decadent French toast – and yes, even bread pudding. DH and I love the crust of artisan, the pockets that hold flavor, and the ability of this bread to hold up to moisture over regular sandwich bread – but the flavor is also quite good. We all have our preferences : )
Hi chas045! Seems you’ve been following posts! The credit really goes to ann_t, who in her recipe (link above) explains the entire process and includes wonderful photos. I thought it was the grill – my first pizza on the grill had nice holes and pockets accompanied with an excellent crust, but the 2nd was like my cast iron in the oven pizza… I suspect it’s the wetter dough, among other things.
As with my first attempts decades ago with white bread, there came a point when it was muscle memory while kneading – it just felt and looked right at some point. Hopefully I can attain this over the next year on a consistent basis with artisan.
annie1992, thank you! I’ve seen photos of your breads – and your bread always looks better than mine (and while it’s not about looks, when bread looks right, it tastes right) – and you explained it so well also, the artisan is chewier and more substantial. Chewier does not equate to ‘tough’ in case anyone who hasn’t tried it is wondering..
I started making artisan bread a few years back, but it was rather tasteless and touch, rather than chewy. The crust was like concrete also – and my pizza could not hold up to sauces, so I just stopped all attempts. ann_t’s tutelage and recipe have improved my recent efforts to the point we prefer this over sandwich breads now. I’m hoping others who want to try artisan breads will be encouraged to! I’ve learned some wonderful lessons in bread-making, but the biggest lesson which ann_t taught me: Don’t be afraid of the dough – it can take a lot!2ManyDiversions
6 years agowritersblock (9b/10a)
6 years agolast modified: 6 years ago2ManyDiversions thanked writersblock (9b/10a)2ManyDiversions
6 years ago
ann_t
6 years agoFor those that asked about the holes, here is why I love this style of bread.
Yesterday's bread
All those little craters for the butter to seep into.
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sleevendog (5a NY 6aNYC NL CA)
6 years agoI don't get the 'bragging' bit. That is just sharing some success glee. I just took some dough out from making three big boules last weekend. We shall see. : )
A link upper left is a 'general discussion' where many from other sections in Houzz will "post peep' and comment. I prefer to stick to 'what's for dinner' for the most part as the 'peepers' rarely comment there.
Holey Easter Boule Batman. We rushed it making so many and still ended up exactly what we wanted, using it for charcuterie. Two halves on the sideboard and family just tears off bits needed. Made two different Bagna Cauda.
Even with some added whole wheat we got good crumb and crust for dipping.
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6 years ago2ManyDiversions
6 years ago
mamapinky0