Sharon, Don't give up.

I have no idea what the issue is. I use the same recipe for Boules as I do baguettes and I use the same dough for pizza.

Is this the recipe that you are following?What hydration are you using? I vary between 68% and 78%, put my favourite is actually 70%.

Are you still away in the USA? Because brand of flour also makes a difference. I know many on the various Bread Baking groups I belong to that use this recipe with no problem. The only difference most of them find is that they can't achieve the same shine that I get on the crumb, but I think that is because they don't have access to our Canadian flour.

Sharon, have you tried Ann's Italian bread recipe? I do a slight variation and get the crumb you're looking for. It's not as holey as Ann's current breads, but that's more to our liking anyway.

Thread: need-a-recipe-for-easy-italian-bread-please-and-a

I skip the oil and call it French. ;)

French Bread

Make a poolish using 3/4 cup bread flour, 1/4 teaspoon yeast, and 1/2 cup warm water. Stir for a minute then cover. Let rise overnight or start early in the day.

3 1/4 cups bread flour

1 1/4 teaspoons yeast

1 1/4 teaspoons salt

1 1/4 cups warm water

Add poolish to flour, yeast, and water. Mix together for 1 minute then sit covered for 20 minutes to allow the water to be partially absorbed. Add salt and mix for about 8 minutes (I use a hand mixer) till it comes together enough to finish kneading by hand. Knead by hand for about 5 minutes or until dough is smooth. Place in large oiled bowl (covered) and let rise until more than doubled (about 3 hours total). Remove from bowl after first and second hours. Flatten slightly and fold into thirds each time then return to bowl.

Pour out on to flour dusted surface and divide in 2. Shape one into a loaf (boule or baguette), cover and allow to rise on a flour dusted parchment paper lined baking sheet for about 90 minutes. Put remaining dough in fridge to use in a few days for another loaf, focaccia, or pizza.

Preheat oven with baking stone to 450°. Dust loaf with flour and slash the top. When sliding loaf into oven spray with cold water 3 times, 3 minutes apart. Lower heat to 425 and bake additional 20 minutes.

~revised version of Ann’s recipe

Ann, I know that you've been using your Cuisinart for baking the bread. Can you tell me what temp and setting you use? I'm very much a novice when it comes to making bread, but your bread looks so good I'd like to try!

(Sorry for the hijack Chase)

My only thought is that it is easy for me to overhandle and partially deflate wetter doughs. Well my other thought is I need to bake something...

And OT CindyMac how do you like that knife? My sister and I are making a round of them this month.

Ann, I brought Canadian flour with me and I use your 70% ratio. I well-being in the oven here doesn't heat properly or maybe I to bake longer . What temp to do let the bread get to before removing? Mine is very dense.....no holes at all

Cindy ,I use Ann's French Bread recipe weekly with no problems......haven't made it here though might try and see if it comes out OK ....of not may be an oven problem

chase, What yeast are you using?

Are you adding flour as you go along to make the s&f more manageable? I haven't figured out how to s&f wet dough so I keep adding flour from the counter which makes my bread more dense.

Sharon, I bake at 500°F in regular oven. 450°F in the CSO on the Bread setting because that is the maximum this oven goes too. I don't bother testing for internal temperature any more because I can tell by colour. But every so often I will check just to confirm that I'm right and it is always between 205° and 210°F.

The holes depend on good gluten development and hydration. Not sure how many stretch and folds you are doing, but it is all about feel. So sometimes it will take 5 or 6 folds rather than just 4 to get the right feel. I don't bother timing between stretch and folds any more either. Anywhere from 20 to 45 minutes between. Although I get holes even with a same day bake, you might try leaving the dough in the fridge for a day or two and see if that works better for you.

Ok.....I have to get in on this....
First of all, I can

't find the recipe for Ann's boule

Ann's Boule...is it different from the French bread?

And, chase does the dough show yeast activity before you form and bake it?
As I understand, ann's Boule is just a shape and the same stretch and fold 79% hydration she uses for French baguettes, batarda dna pizza.

chase_gw, seems like you're getting some great tips here, so I hope I don't add anything to confuse you! Don't give up! I'm going to elaborate a bit... I'm sure you know much, if not all of this, but for others that don't...

I can't get the higher protein flour, but use King Arthur's Bread Flour (and have used other brands, no issues) - I don't get that lovely shiny crumb Ann does, but as you've got the flour, you should : ) I use SAF instant yeast - it's the only yeast I will use now.

ETA: I mix the dough initially and gently in my mixer with a roller (dough hook also works, just gentle and slow speed). Allow it to autolyze as per Ann's recipe, add the yeast, and again use the mixer to mix in my yeast... otherwise I have great difficulty getting the yeast to disperse well - which is important!

I do 6 full stretch and folds - higher humidity here, so it's needed... like Ann, I don't time it except to make sure it's been at least 25 minutes. Afterward, I weigh and divide the dough, wrapping some in saran wrap and placing it in a baggie in the fridge for 4-7 days to make bread that week... it gently proofs a bit and looks nice and bubbly - here's some I have now straight from the fridge:

Photos for uploading · More Info

After the first proof, I flour my workspace, and shape. I'm neither gentle nor rough, but I make sure to get rid of the air bubbles. I shape, folding the dough and pressing the seams each time, about 12 times (see, I'm not gentle) to help the dough hold it's shape, and create some good surface tension at the end, then place it on parchment paper sprinkled with stone ground cornmeal. To help the shape, I roll a flour sack towel and wrap it around the bread, under the parchment. Cover, then back into a slightly warm oven with another bowl of boiling water.

After 1 - 1 1/2 hours it's typically ready to pull out of the oven from proofing... Do you check your proof? I put my finger in water or flour and poke the dough gently (on the side). If the indent stays for a while, it's proofed, if it fills in, I give it more time or I get no holes, flat, dense bread. The very first of this video shows the proof test:

I uncover the dough while the baking sheet and oven are heating to 500 degrees for a good 30 minutes minimum to help it form a skin - it's such a high hydration I have trouble scoring it if I don't (use an oven thermometer to check you temp). And don't score until just before it goes in the oven, of course.

I find an easier no-fuss method of baking is to bake in my dutch oven (although I get the same results using ice cubes tossed into a hot roasting pan underneath, or cold water poured in) with just placing the bread on a baking sheet. I put the dutch oven in the oven while it's heating, and when ready, use the parchment edges and just lift it and place inside (minus the shaping towel underneath the parchment, of course!)

At 500 degrees, I find 22 - 24 minutes about right. If I use the dutch oven, I uncover it at 8 minutes and let it continue baking. (I don't use water or ice cubes as the lidded dutch oven allows moisture from the dough).

I never take the temp... but go by look. When the top crust looks good, I pull it out, and give it a thump for the hollow sound on the bottom.

Photos for uploading · More Info

Photos for uploading · More Info

Gosh, that's a long post, sorry I got so wordy!

lindac92, here is the link to Ann's artisan dough, and yes, it's the same for pizza, boules, batards, and baguettes. LINK

Linda, I use the same recipe for bread shaped as a round/boule as I do baguettes. Since 2014 I have used the stretch/fold and autolyze method. See link above.

agmss15, my husband loves it. He's the bread eater in our house. Occasionally, he has to use a regular serrated if my bread is too wide.

Do you sell at art shows? Online? We gave the knives as Christmas gifts one year to his siblings. They all love them.

sharon, the only think I can think of is you are not allowing the bread to rise enough before making. If one shape works but the other doesn't?? Same recipe?
2Many, I have ann's whole cookbook on my hard drive, but saw no different recipe for a boule.
I have one of those saw blade knives....wonder where it is? It really does cut through a hard crust, but it can do a number on a bread board if you are not careful!. My favorite bread knife is the Chicago Cutlery one...in fact I wore the serrations clean off of one!!

Linda , it's not the same recipe . I use Ann' s original French Bread/ Baguette recipe to make bread. Have been for years and is always perfect.

This year's I tried her 70 % hydration, pinch and fold method because I don't have my KA with the bread hook here in Florida.

I have tried several times and always a faliure. I measure carefully, feel realtively confident about the consistency and the rising.

I have risen and baked....risen , refrigerated then baked ...have never let the entire rise happen in the fridge. No matter it comes out very dense

Maybe I'll try jacking up the heat and baking longer....then I' lll cry uncle

If it rises....it shouldn't be dense....have you proofed your yeast? Maybe something about damp florida and the yeast doesn't work....
But really....if the bread is puffy when it goes into the oven, It should have holes in it when it comes out.

I have made "vacation bread" quite a few times...one time with yeast found in the cupboard from the previous occupant. I was stuck in the house with a sleeping toddler while everyone else was on the beach, and I only let it rise once and baked it. I had no recipe and "thought" I remembered....and it was delicious.
If it rises, it should have bubbles and holes inside.

lindac92, either I misunderstood your initial question, or you misunderstood my response, but Ann's cleared it up, so all is good.

ann_t - I should have waited for you to answer any questions on your bread recipe... my apology for jumping in. You know, I've dubbed you the Bread Goddess... and honestly, haven't we all?! : )

chase, a few years ago I tried and tried to make artisan bread... it was awful in every way, every time. Then I tried pizza, and it actually got worse with each time! I just hate to see you cry uncle!

ann_t: I'm among your legion of internet fans who are ever so grateful for your generosity, sharing your recipes, time and tips. This weekend, I'll be treating my family to week/round 4 of the best pizza we've ever had! :)

2Many: I just sat down and retyped your very helpful tips. What?! Apologizing for a wordy post? Pffft! (I could've just copy/pasted, but typing word for word helps me picture all the steps in my head.) Thanks so much for doing this.

The original recipe yields six small boulles -- how small are these boulles (or how large would three boulles be?)? Size may be more crucial if I decide to bake in my 10" dutch oven vs plopping onto a cookie sheet. TIA!

I think high hydration bread depends on a screaming hot oven and a screaming hot stone or dutch oven for "holey" success.
And Sharon, you can make Ann's French bread without a dough hook...look at those things at the ends of your arms....dough hooks!! It works just fine hand kneading....and it's only about 7 or 8 minutes and it's a good work out!

You have gotten such great advice here, Chase. Can it be change due to Florida temps? Even change in flour temperature? Is it possible that you're underproofing or overproofing? If you google can you find some pictures of what your "dense" looks like and share?

I'm not schooled enough to help with diagnosis, but I can commiserate (classic underproofer:)

Cathy in PA

Javiwa, Thanks for your kind words.

Is your question about the size of the small boules directed at me? If so, you can get 6 nice size rounds/boules from a 1000g batch. About twice the size of a large kaiser roll. If you wanted just bun size, you could get eight from a 1000g batch. If you are baking in a large dutch oven, than I would just divide the dough in half to make two.

Perfect, ann_t -- thanks! I put the question out there for whomever had the time to get to me first. :)