I've been there - twice. The first time, I was younger, naive, and allowed my SS to move in w/ my DH and I for his last year + of H.S. It was not as bad as what you described, but there were a lot of similarities - an unmotivated kid with a huge sense of entitlement, no desire to ever work, etc. He ended up going to college so it eventually worked itself out. Last Thanksgiving (Nov.) my DH allowed his adult (24y.o.) DD to move in w/ us despite my protests that it wouldn't be a good idea. We now have three young boys and any of the 'big' kids in the house cause the boys to not want to keep on their schedules. DH turned a blind eye to all of DD's shortcomings, just as he did w/ his son (who after 6 yrs. of college, quit/failed out, won't work, stuck us for all his bills and me for his student loans that I was stupid enough to cosign for.) Anyway, things came to a major boiling point (see my April original post - the reason I came here.) I will say that no matter what I did or said, it didn't matter. No matter how I 'felt' in my own - DH just hid his head in the sand. We finally ended up in a huge argument. At least things were aired out (though he sat beside his DD despite her disrespectful tone towards me.) A few weeks later I said, "I think what we have is worth saving, but I don't feel like saving it right now. So, I'm going to a marriage counselor Tues. at 1pm (or whatever). You can join me if you feel you want to make a last attempt to work through things." He showed up and our lives changed. The counselor was impartial - didn't just side w/ me, agreed that DH was in a tough situation, etc. (We also have $ issues - his DD worked, but wouldn't contribute a cent and while we appear to be well off, have been in a horrible state of affairs since a fire 2.5 years ago that the ins. still has yet to cover.) The counselor basically told DH, "You're doing your grown children no service by continuing to foot the bills for all of their luxuries (cars, cell phones, ins.) You're actually undermining their confidence to be able to handle these things - as all adults do by this stage in their lives (skids are 22, 24, 26) and you're preventing them from establishing credit, learning how to budget, etc." We saw the counselor for a couple of months and it made a huge difference in our lives. I wasn't happy to have to pay that kind of money for a stranger to tell my husband what anyone w/ common sense could have told him, but it was valuable to me for him to hear it from someone who had no motivation to sway the truth. BTW, tell your bf that my SS was just like his son only was brilliant in school. I feel that because my DH never said what he meant and meant what he said, the boy is now a man who cannot stand on his own two feet. No work, no school for years - just living off his bf(they are gay, one reason I felt he needed to stay w/ us way back when as his mom was very condemning. I've worried about the suicide thing, too.) My DH would say, "Now son, you have to work for us all summer long, then we'll match what you've earned and help you get a car." Well, SS showed twice for work (at our office - we are dentists), both times in the late afternoon. I grew angry and bitter - felt like I wanted to hide at my parents when he was around - running from my own house! At the end of the summer, DH snuck out behind my back (we had our first baby at that point who was a newborn) and bought that kid a new car. I was furious. Now, DH realizes how stupid he was (or so he says) and how he basically asked for his son to turn into the bum that he is today by never having to work for anything. It was all handed to him. We finally just stopped (six mos. ago) allowing him to have the car we paid for monthly - we actually had a PI repo it. We can't sell it, and it's the new excuse SS gives for not working. He hasn't spoken to us since right after our fire - still pay for his cell just to know he's OK. We believe he's in another state from us these days, but he's pouting like a child and refuses our calls - even when his father nearly died last year! Amazing. Good luck. Get counseling. All parents get defensive when their child is criticized, so pointing out the kid's flaws will do no good. Have a counselor lead your bf. I always said that we needed the counselor to help w/ dialogue - how to tell my SD that I needed help around the house, and that she really needed to look for another place in X number of months. So, tell your BF that you don't feel SS is hearing you and that maybe a professional can help. Once you get him there, you can go through the issues and just ask the counselor's opinion as to how he/she feels is the best way to handle this or that. And, if he continues to bring illegal drugs into your house, you could be liable. Tell him you'll call the police - then do it! Dana

Imma - I don't understand!!!! How do mom's do this?? I don't understand why a dad would do it either but I can see that men (no offense) not all men.. Just a lot of men I know... Can be without their kids. They expect they won't have full residential custody, mom's have always kept their kids ... Ya know what I mean? It's becoming more common for men to have either joint custody 50/50 or residential custody but for my whole life I never knew mom's that didnt have their kids. When my dad left my mom, I was 2. My mom had to go to work. I went and 'stayed' at my grandma's for about a year but my mom called every day, many times a day and she got me on the weekends. My grandparents lived too far to just 'keep' me during the day and my mom couldn't afford child care at the time.. It took about 10 months for her to get on her feet financially and to start receiving CS in order to be able to afford it. She didn't walk away from me though. I've been told by my grandma and my brother and sister that it was the hardest thing she ever had to do but it was only temporary and she was THERE. She still provided for me and saw me etc. I would never blame my mom for the hard decision she had to make. I don't even remember it so that was probably the best thing for us at the time. But to move out of state and leave your kids, for another man, NO ONE comes before my kids!! I remember being faced with this same situation because of finances so I made the choice to move back home to my parents so I could still have my daughter full time. I could have let her stay with her dad, moved into a smaller place, paid a little CS which would have been no doubt cheaper than child care but the thought of it made me sick!! I don't get this Dad either. He calls his son every night to say good night?? That's an involved dad!! And to move 1000 miles away! Makes NO sense and if it were me I would be very angry because then I would have to pick up his pieces!! There are many many many times that I want to shout at my Dd 'your dad is an idiot!! He did NOT hang the moon! I hung it for him and I continue to hold it up for him!!' but the mere thought of my dd's heart breaking stops me every time!! If she knew the truth and she knew that her daddy isn't who she thinks he is, she would be devastated. I think most of us normal mom's know that and don't want to be the reason our kids are hurting. Which is what I'm sure your gf feels. Sounds like she puts her son first and his feelings. She has every right to be angry.

I am sure she will be greatly missed by many folk. It sounds to me like she really 'graced' this world with her life. My condolences to all of the family at this time.

>>They do not pay rent, my step son drives a car provided by my husband, he also has his insurance and cell phone covered by DH. We cover the cost of housing, Internet, utilities and most necessities. They buy their own groceries if they want something we don't normally keep in the house. Well of course they don't want to move out, who would in that situation? >>DH would like to retire soon but he's still providing for everyone plus paying off both his sons student loans.It's time to have "the talk" with DH. Gently point out that a) if he continues to support fully grown adults who should be capable of supporting themselves he will _never_ be able to retire, and b) it does fully grown adults who are capable of supporting themselves no favours to continue to support them. They need to learn to manage for themselves or when Dad finally drops off the perch it will be a very rude awakening. Once DH is onside you need to have "the talk" with your stepson and GF. Let them know it's time for these birds to leave the nest and become fully fledged adults. Give them a time line, say three months, when they need to have organised a place to live and moved in. Are the stepsons on student loans finished with their schooling and working? If so, time for them to take over their own debts and pay off their own loans.