If you don't need the storage in uppers on the range wall, then you could omit them. I didn't draw it, but I was thinking that the MW could go in a cabinet beside the fridge, since most microwaved items are taken from the fridge. Where would you put the MW? Drawer on the island?

bbtrix-- we can't really tear down any other walls. We debated moving kitchen to dining area, but I think that's as far as we'd be able to afford to move it to.

Here's the link--dimensions should be correct but I feel like sometimes the planner does wonky things. I'll double check.

http://kitchenplanner.ikea.com/US/UI/Pages/VPUI.htm?LoadDesign=01e0f2c92b1846f1ba2ef411f05a55f0&UIContext=SE_Menu&IsSharedDesign=1&Entry=Kitchen

thanks!

mama goose we were thinking MW on shelf in island. (Can't afford drawer, plus rarely use MW.) We currently have it on a lower shelf and it works fine for us. We usually take leftovers out of fridge, then put them in bowls/plates to heat up. So never really straight from fridge.

You are required to have a front door for egress reasons. You can’t just say that you never use it and eliminate it without adding a second at least 36” wide obvious entry point into the public spaces of your house. That’s not a back door.

And any renovation that involves moving a bathroom and a kitchen both, and adding a master suite, and rearranging what is left, is going to be so costly that it will never happen. Moving is a better and cheaper option. Or a teardown.

You are not dealing with one single real professional here if they haven’t brought these issues up. The permitting process for this should catch all of these complete non starters. Like should have happened if you actually had an architect involved to point them out before any design time was wasted on a plan that is not viable.

You need to put the brakes on and hire someone real.

We will have a main entry with 36" door, it just won't be centered in the middle of our house (which it isn't currently anyway).

It looks like you are plumbing for new baths. Is it feasible to move plumbing to the living room area? I’m guessing it’s about the same sq footage without looking at the planner yet. Since the entrance would be right next to the fridge in mama’s plan and so close to island seating, and the fact that you want better gathering space, swapping LR and kitchen can possibly give you better flow. Especially if you use your patio a lot. This would also allow you to keep the front door for egress. I could do some mock-ups if moving the plumbing is feasible.

The new main entrance enters into the mud room?

Yes the mudroom would be revamped to be a "nicer" entrance. It's a step up into the kitchen (we'd likely eliminate that door and just have an opening).

Unfortunately I think moving kitchen to LR would break the budget. LR is about 10x12 (with a fireplace). We are already close to max budget w/current kitchen plan

This looks like a very large remodel for a relatively modest house. Are you sure this type of investment is worth it in your market? Perhaps you should consider keeping the kitchen in its current location and just improving your finishes. Unless this is your forever home (it might be), there may not be value in such a complicated renovation. Removing exterior doors, moving walls, relocating plumbing, etc. for what return? So you can switch your dining room and kitchen locations?

I have major concerns with the master plan for this home. It wastes a lot of money to not end up with anything significantly better. You need to talk to a local real estate agent about your plans. And ask her to show you what adding the huge remodel costs of this project to the selling costs of your home would allow you to buy.

I also have major concerns that you are well underestimating the costs on these project. You are looking at 250K for this to be done, at a minimum, for builder grade results, in a low cost area of the country. Anyone who is lowballing you with any number lower than that, probably has plenty of change orders in mind to increase the costs on everything once underway. The high number could be well over 900K for upscale finishes in a high cost of living area.

I think you are paying someone a lot of money to decrease the value and appeal of the home. And this does not strike me as the type of home owned by someone who can afford to waste that money.

Kristin those are good questions we have thought about long and hard over the past two years. We have not been able to find another house that fits our needs, and we really like our location and have a decent size lot at the end of a desirable dead end street that backs up to woods. We are the smallest house on our street, so I don't believe we're pricing ourselves out of the market. We may not get a huge return, but we don't plan on moving until after our kids go to college (if then). Our priority was redoing the baths and getting an extra bedroom, and we were able to include a kitchen re-do in the process. Either leaving it as is or expanding into hallway seem feasible to me. Getting the extra room for social gatherings met the last need we felt like we weren't getting from this house. Thanks for expressing the concerns--they are good ones.

For a large remodel such as this, plan on going over your budget by about 20%. There are too many variables when you remove walls and relocate plumbing. You may not go over your budget, but you should still plan for it and make sure you have the reserve to cover the cost. And since you have not quite settled on a plan yet, your original estimate of cost may change once you have all of your final numbers in (do not start until you do).

Also, I believe you should design for how you live everyday, not for the occasions when you entertain. With your new plan, you have no sight line to the living space and no direct access to the backyard (do you grill, have a patio?). Your original plan allowed for a large island. This plan gives you a thin, off-center, out of proportion island.

I hesitate to give too much advice here, as there are many variables that are missing that, as a professional designer, I am obligated to understand before I jump into space planning. But just casually observing your plans and the dialog here, I think you may want to rethink your direction or hire a designer who can ask the right questions.

I can't see the full plan as I can't access the Ikea planner. Can someone post the house plan on here?

"I think you are paying someone a lot of money to decrease the value and appeal of the home."

I agree with live-wire-oak. And you are paying to make it less functional as well, as Kristin noted above.

I can see no circumstances where this would be a wise financial move. The end result is simply not good enough to justify the expense.

You need to work with an architect if you do decide to remodel instead of selling and moving. The sheer scale of the structural and functional changes is beyond that of a designer to help you with yet.

You have to get the big picture correct before you focus on the smaller details. Focusing on kitchen plans at this point is premature, because the whole home plan isn't yet workable.

I apologize if this wasn't clear--our current kitchen is in the front of the house. The crossed-out area on the plan w/kitchen at back was an idea we decided against (felt too small and smushed). So all we are doing is expanding into the hall next to the current kitchen. Our sight lines stay the same and access to patio stays the same. We have French doors in the living room out to the patio as well as a slider in the mudroom to the patio.

The whole home plan is in the original post.

I think you need to focus on what drew you to this home in the first place. What do you like about it? Right now your plans seem to suggest that there isn't much that you do like. I think you need to pause. Put any renovations at all on hold, and try to fall in love with it again.

A massive remodel is not the cure to you not loving a home unless you have a lot of disposable income. This isn't an "investment". It won't get you $1 back of what you spend. It is a cash outlay only.

You have to ask the old Ann Landers question, Are you better off with it as is, or without? And if the answer is Without, then your answer is not going to be a remodel.

We love our home and our location. We love our patio and yard and the fact that we can walk into town and my husband can walk to work. We love that we're on a dead end street where the kids can ride bikes and play. We also love our tiny interior and the fact that it has some character compared to newer homes. But our bathrooms need updating, and the only way to do that was to add on somewhere. We would have sacrificed all this if we had been able to find another home in our area, but nothing has come on the market in the past two years that worked for us. (And the general consensus among realtors, friends, neighbors etc. is that we would be crazy to give up our location.)

Our kitchen also needs updating--it's from 1954--and so in addition to new cabinets/countertop, etc., we thought we'd gain some extra space using the hallway. We were already planning to update the mudroom ourselves to make it a nicer entry, regardless of front door.

So while I appreciate the concern and input, we are not going anywhere.

I will continue to tweak the kitchen cabinets, fridge placement, etc. if anyone has ideas they want to share. I really appreciate everyone's willingness to help here.

cpartist here's the IKEA plan which has dimensions.

I would never buy a home without a front door.

As others said, I think you are devaluing your home which will not only be a cash outlay, but also make selling your home more difficult. We added square footage, a 3rd bedroom and new bathroom. We spent several years talking about what we wanted, then took it to an architect. The designer came in later.

The architect will look at the forest. The designer will look at the trees. What you have is an impending forest fire. Stop, think and take the entire plan to the architect. Worry about where the cabinets go towards the end stage of the work.

While mama goose's plan gives you more aisle space, it creates two problems that I have in my current kitchen layout that I really want to solve when I remodel. First (and most annoying to me) is having the stove between the fridge and sink. This means you will constantly be crossing through your cooking space when you are prepping. In your kitchen the distance between fridge and sink wouldn't be as large as it is in mine, and if you are usually cooking solo it might not bother you, but it's something to think about. If you are cooking with someone else it would definitely be annoying, especially with narrow-ish aisles.

The other issue is that putting the fridge on the same wall as the range means the range will be quite close to the corner. My range is currently just one foot from the corner and while it's not horrible, it can be a little annoying, and it definitely makes me use that side of the stove less frequently than I otherwise might.

Anyway, with regard to your uppers, I agree with you about the visual clutter of open shelving near the window - it's not what I would choose either, it was just an idea to get the open shelves away from the stove. Have you considered doing upper cabinets only on the short sides and leaving the window wall completely open? Or coming around the corners with angled upper cabinets but stopping the uppers well before you get near the window on either side? In my kitchen I have one angled corner upper and one corner where the run ends with a flat cabinet in the corner and I find the angled corner upper MUCH more useful. I am 6' tall and even so I find it difficult to reach things in all but the lowest shelves of the flat corner cabinet. I like the angled corner for oddly-shaped or long and narrow items where you can take advantage of the extra depth.

Thanks biondanonima. Good to know your experience with similar layout. I don't love an angled cabinet but I can see how it would be more useful. I also thought about just coming around the corner with one more single cabinet and leaving rest of wall open.

With all due respect, we *have* worked with an architect, and we *have* thought about this for years, and we did not hire a designer until everything else was figured out. The architect was in fact the one who pointed out--for an extreme example--that Frank Lloyd Wright preferred off-center doors. We will have a front door. It just won't be the one we currently have.

I don't love the look of angled upper cabinets, and when we bought our current home I thought for sure I would want to get rid of mine asap. My old place was a galley, so no corners to worry about. However, now that I have had a year to use it, I realize that for me the angled cabinet has big advantages that outweigh its look (which I still don't love). I wonder how an angled cabinet would look with open shelving instead of a door front? Might be a way for you to work the open shelving look into your design.

I understand your starting point. We bought a 1948, original condition, 2 bedroom 1 bath ranch. Everyone thought the solution was a major addition, but we worked within the existing footprint and are happy to have a 3/2 that makes sense and doesn’t look jumbled and added on to.

Can you post a drawing of your existing layout? I’d like to think on your project from your starting point.

Our county is very particular about front doors and front elevations. I’d make sure the door change is code compliant before planning around it.

Not trying to offend.....as someone who has put out over $200k in cash over the past 10 years on our home, I'm just offering experience. We moved our kitchen as well. The addition required some compromise with the new bathroom being directly off the smallest bedroom. Its just the two of us and we prefer separate offices and bathrooms as opposed to a master suite. In addition, we prefer living space to sleeping space.

So as part of the work we did with the Architect, the plan allows for someone with a preference for a master suite to easily wall in our library space, move the closet and reconfigure the smallest bedroom into a full suite with access already off the hall and leaving the flow of the footprint easily workable, albeit not ideal for our lifestyle. THIS is key to a successful plan for the future of this house well after we leave.

If you want advice about your cabinets, I'll tell you we put glass cabinets on two of three walls in our kitchen to lighten the space and give the illusion of more windows. Fortunately that room is south facing, so it doesn't feel dark an heavy. It cost a lot more than solid doors, but was worth it. So we just have to be neat with our dish storage.

Working with a bad architect is almost worse than not working with one at all. But I doubt seriously if you are working with an actual state licensed architect. Off centered doors are one thing, but off centered doors into a casual messy family area are not. Even the neatest of children will leave that an area more fit to be cleaned with a fire hose and floor drain than one fit to receive your ministers grandmother.

Presumably you have a crawl space, so moving plumbing is not a huge deal.

If that's the case, how about this: knock out the wall by the front door, but leave the door in place. Make the current kitchen space into the dining room. You can add cabinetry to the dining room (on the mudroom wall) for storage - sideboard, china cabinet, or pantry storage for less-used appliances and large dishes - whatever your need happens to be.

I think your 10' x 10' space is adequate for a nice L-shaped kitchen plus island with a sink. I would put the fridge by the mud room door (close to dining), and the range on the patio door wall.

Thank you benjesbride. This is the bedroom end of the house currently--trying to find one w/measurements. Those bathrooms are both about 60x65. So in the new plan above, you can see the outline of the current main bath, and the current master bath is right behind it.

What are the dimensions of the mud room? Is it attached to a garage? Is there a crawl space or basement?

mudroom is on a concrete slab. 114 x 132. attached to garage. Steps up into kitchen.

The plan I posted is very similar to my kitchen, except where I drew the shallow pantries I have a long baking counter, which doubles as a buffet counter. I have a door into a family DR in the area which would be to the left of your DW. There is an 18" drawer base between my range and the blind corner, and two 18" drawer bases between the range and fridge. In addition, I live with narrower than recommended aisles.

I have almost everything I need to cook or prep organized in that L, but that's because I have adapted my cooking style--it's very easy to take butter, eggs, or milk out of the fridge to add to a pan already on the range. I do most of my cutting/chopping prep in the corner, and a lot of baking/pastry prep on the end of the island counter across from the sink. My stand mixer is in the corner of the baking counter, where someone upthread suggested you could have an appliance garage.

I usually cook alone (by preference), but my daughter and son-in-law often cook together, with two small boys running around in the kitchen. It works for us. I wouldn't give up my baking counter, but I would love to have full-height shallow pantry cabinets--storage without having to move items in the front to get to items in the back. You need to make sure you have a wide drawer stack to store pots and pans, and large items, or you could store them in a super susan between the range and sink wall.

Do you have a whole house drawing with dimensions? Or—if you don’t— what is the current house footprint; 25’ X ?

26x44 is the footprint. I can't find a whole house drawing.

Is your laundry currently in the basement?

yep. It's two-thirds finished. In finished area is our family room and a play/craft room and unfinished is laundry and storage. That will get finished someday...

Do you think folksuse the mudroom entrance just because it’s closer to parking?

I suppose--there's a sidewalk from driveway that goes to that door, or you can keep on walking and go to front door. It's not like that's a grand entrance or anything. I can send you photo if you want (rather not post it here).

Oh, that's okay. I was just wondering if the lack of front door use could be changed by landscaping. No one uses my parent's front door, but it's because theres a back door closer to the parking area. People just tend to take the quickest route.

No one comes to our front door, except the UPS driver, who leaves packages on the porch, and runs (literally) back to his van parked on the road--although our driveway extends to the back of the house. Even our mailman comes to the back when he has a package too big to fit in the box. (He just opens the back door and leaves the package on the dog food can.)

Since you have a second egress via the patio doors, I think making the side entrance, which is more convenient to everyone--including visitors--the main entrance, and enlarging the kitchen, is a good idea. Leave the current front door header, and a folder of 'before' pictures for a future owner, so that he can restore it if he wishes. Maybe stash the door in the garage, with the folder of pictures attached.

The following quote, by GW member Magnaverde, was once posted at the top of the GW Home Decorating page:

"Decorate for the way you live, not the way you wish you lived."

Without dimensions, this is my best guess of how you can work two full baths into an efficient, more open floor plan.

The addition plan in your original post wastes space with no true increase in living area. Depending on your lot, I'd rather see you add a family room off the back of the plan below than stick a master bedroom off the back of what you have.

Nice Benje.

Thanks, Benje. I really appreciate the time and thought you've put into this--very generous of you.

I like your ideas. I guess the biggest difference with this is that we lose the fourth bedroom/office. When we bought the house, we planned on one kid, but--twins! My office is currently the small bedroom, and they share a room, but we'd really like to give them their own space. So our plan helped us get there (without losing my office).

You've raised some interesting points, and I will show this to my husband so we can think it all through.

Many thanks again

Can you establish your office in the mud room?

Or the basement?

ak - can you sketch the mudroom with dimensions and door/window locations?

Since you have a garage, a mudroom and a full basement in addition to your 1200 square feet, I'm even more convinced that an addition is not a good idea. I have 1200 sf. That's it. Oh, what I could do with all your extra space!

Here are a few 3ds to give you an idea of what my suggestion might work out to. Keep in mind that the closet in the hallway could be all pantry storage if needed.

And if you need a high cabinet for ovens....

With mudroom becoming main entrance I don't think I'd want an office there. But basement is possibility

If your living room is at the front, you don't need to eliminate your front door.

Have you considered eliminating the mudroom door? People follow the path of least resistance. Your family can still enter through the garage. Your guests can walk the extra 14 feet to the front door.

It would be excellent if you could eliminate the mudroom door on the front of the house, add a window and move your laundry room up to the main level. 11x9.5' is a lot of useful main level space for mudroom/laundry room.