You don't have a design, so you don't owe a fee. this stuff gets determined up front and is not a forced fee via your gc. i had several designers/sales people provide me with bids and some drawings. they were crap so i did my own. i didn't pay for their time. much like when i was in banking...i spent hours working out deals. i won manyand lost many. thats the trade :) this person obviously knows that or they'd have charged you from the get go.

you're paying your fee (which could be hidden in the pice) to the person who eventually dd your kitchen work. thats enough. i'd fire a gc who took funds of mine and applied them to someone else for me ny the way.

If there's a fee due, it's between you and the kitchen designer and it should have been discussed up front. People often do provide bid/proposals/estimates for free - that's a very valid business model. It's really not up to the GC to withhold your money and give it to the KD. It sure sounds like there's something going on between the two of them!

I agree with the others. Your GC is totally out of line. If your KD requires a fee, he/she should have discussed that with you beforehand. A couple of KDs I met with told me they have design fees if I take their design elsewhere. Fair enough. But it doesn't sound like you did this in your situation.

But either way, it's not up to the GC to decide.

I have a kitchen design done by a kitchen designer, that I contracted with. I took that design and shopped it around for cabinets and 4 of the 7 or so I talked to went ahead and ANOTHER design for free. Granted they just tweaked what was there, but they never mentioned money. I think this sounds fishy as well. I'd be upfront about it with the contractor and let him explain himself. No contract/agreement = no money in my book.

It kinda sounds like he feels bad because he initiated the work and his friend it not getting any money out of the deal that he started. He definitely has a vested interest in thie relationship to be so concerned over her/him.

i agree that you're not obligated to pay the KD. however, if you strongly value your relationship with this GC, i'd consider throwing the KD a bone.

if you choose to go this route, don't ask them how much you owe. tell the KD and the GC that since the terms weren't stipulated up front, you could simply walk away, but since you want to leave everything on good terms, you are willing, out of the kindness of your heart, to pay the KD a dollar amount of your choosing.

give them a check, thank them for the time they spent, and request copies of everything they did.

just one option...something i'd consider if i strongly valued the relationship with the GC.

I agree with igloochic and weissman. Stand your ground. This to me just sounds like the GC trying to curry favor with "his" KD

Under no circumstances would I pay the KD a fee. It sounds to me like your GC was getting some money for the cabinets from this woman. If there was a design fee, that should have been discussed up-front. To decide after the fact that you should pay her is just nonsense.

I worked with a KD who is part-owner of the custom cabinet company we are using. She spent hours with us, both in her store and in our home. She didn't give us detailed drawings until we'd placed the order, which is understandable, but if we'd walked away we wouldn't have owed her a dime.

And as for him deducting a fee for her from your kitchen allowance, if it's not in the contract you have with him, why on earth would you agree to it? I'd sue him before I'd fall for that. If he's got some kind of relationship he's trying to improve with her, let him pay for it.

The fact that HE is suggesting on subtracting from your kitchen allowance for HER work is very fishy. Even if isn't "making money" from the arrangement, there is definitely something going on between the two of them. The KD is his wife's friend or some other relation, she gave him a discount on cabinets for his personal kitchen in return for referrals, whatever.

How far along are you with this guy? Are you happy with him? He sounds a bit shifty to me. I'd tell him that a fee was never discussed and you aren't going to pay it.

I was curious for an update on this thread. What happened about the design fee?

Thanks.

I'd ask the contractor for a meeting on a Friday. Tell him to bring all outstandig invoices ect....Get a fir # on what you owe today., Tell him to bring lien waivers for all trades/supplies on Monday, when you'll have his payout. Tell him thanks for his hard work, but you can no longer deal with "shakedown artists". Do not pay the kitchen designer. No waivers - no check! This will get his attention.

I appreciate all of your feedback. So far I am still having work done with this contractor as per our contract.

Everything is moving along well and there are no further conflicts thus far. However, after the unpleasant discussion regarding the kitchen designer and her never-agreed-upon-fee, the contractor expressed his plans to "remove $500 - $1200 from my kitchen allowance". I did not agree to any amount and though HE received her technical drawings I never did (except for the pictures and discussions regarding the possibilities).

Turns out the kitchen layout I decided upon with the new kitchen person is similar to her design but not exactly the same... therefore I would like to compensate her in SOME way but not to the tune of $500 - $1200 as insisted by the contractor! You all have helped me to develop some backbone. I would like to be fair...I just haven't decided what fair equates to in dollars.
Further discussion with the contractor regarding this topic has died down. The son, who is the project manager, has made some comments here and there about how they have to "change the way they do business by informing homeowners of the retainer fees of their vendors" and I should know "no one works for free", and that it was unfair that the person they recommended (according to him) "had her designs stolen".

I believe the subject will rear its ugly head once again during the final payout. My husband feels we do not owe the designer a dime and the designer should have told us about her fee.

I asked my present kitchen designer his opinion. He said he would gladly sit with a client, discuss what the possibilities could be, show them a few layouts, but once they get to technical drawings he presents them with a $500 retainer contract. Of course he doesnt release any technical drawings without the retainer. In my case, the technical drawings went to the contractor...not to me. My present designer said this is truly between the contractor and his designer.

I have other "allowances" for flooring, granite and tile with my contractor. Of course the contractor has made recommendations of places to purchase these items however I am free to go to any place of my choosing. At this point I am hesitant to choose any of HIS recommended places because I am concerned that the materials I choose will (at this point) deliberately exceed my allowances. I just have a feeling, one way or another, he is going to somehow try to squeeze the kitchen designer fee out of me. It's not based on fact, its just based on a feeling. Therefore I believe I am going to purchase my materials elsewhere or at least do some comparison shopping.
Any further thoughts are greatly appreciated.
Thank you
Melanie

By the way, speaking of "allowances", I DO have to say that the project manager has also made comments as well about the OTHER vendors I have chosen for other work not related to the kitchen i.e., "the electrician was slow in finishing his work", "the painter's work wasn't the best job but you saved $600 by not using my guy". I am anticipating "some noise" when my cabinets (from the other designer) arrives. Stay tuned.

Melanie, I rarely post here as my project has been delayed severely while we go through the process of losing a family member. But I am de-lurking to put in my 2-cents worth.

Aside from the money issue with the Designer's fee, there is another issue of basic respect, decorum, and boundaries.

You must remember that these people work for YOU. Hell would freeze over before I would put up with a project manager, or anyone for that matter, snarking about the vendors I chose, if I were happy with the job that those vendors had done. This is just Junior High sour grapes and it is EXTREMELY unprofessional. I would tell them to either cool it, or hit the road.

I think we all understand that it's a PITA to find a new contractor mid-stream. But believe me, there are other fish in the sea. You don't always have to be "nice" and you certainly shouldn't pay someone to mistreat you. In my experience, people will treat you with the respect they think you will accept. Please step back and ask yourself why you are allowing your contractor and project manager to treat you in this way.

Cass62,
I am sorry to hear that you are losing a family member.

One can fret about which sink to choose, what layout is best, the daily dealings with a disrespectful contractor, etc., however it all seems to fall into perspective when there is an impending loss. Thanks for taking the time to write.

This entire experience has been an eye opener for me in many many ways...from dealing with all different types of people, to making decisions, to being fearful of making expensive mistakes, to being more assertive, to appreciating the kindness of complete strangers who are so willing to offer advice or share their experiences. Thanks for writing, I will take your advice. I wish you the best. Thank you.
Melanie