I am in the process of remodeling a kitchen that had no access to the corner under the counter - like you have planned. It drove me crazy that I had no access to that space! Could you leave drawers on one side and have a door on the other so you can get into that space? I've seen racks that look like half a lazy susan that can help you access that corner.

you seem to have things under control. You express the situation and your feelings about it.

when garbage leaves your condo, where does it go to? A garbage chute to the basement where someone else takes care of it? A garbage bin outside?

i saw the several pages in each of your files.

i read your post. Know this: a lazy suzan is good, or OK, or so-so, at doing what it does, but is not as good as what I will propose. Nothing is gained by keeping corner cabinets, as they are not more efficient than straight runs.

you may have to explain to readers why you are not going with induction, or a bit of both.

consider these ideas:
to gain storage space (amount), to make storage more efficient, to get more counter and to have that counter more accessible too, galley-ize your kitchen layout. Turn its layout into a galley floor plan inasmuch as will be possible. During your simulation exercise time in the next few days, draw or think of two parallel counters that do not touch, so there are no corners to waste space. Do this first of all by turning the fridge to back against the laundry room wall.

Imagine:
Remove everything. Bare room. Make it a rectangle in a childish sketch. Later we add the real dimensions back in and adjust a tad here and there, but not now because now is a time for large-area thinking and not detailed thinking.

X and Y axes can be used to describe the two directions in grids.
The X axis is parallel to the short wall.
The Y axis is parallel to the long counter.
Make a galley following the Y axis. Two counters.
On the X axis there are no cabinets.
This is the mind-blowing part which may take time to get used to.
Make every drawer open into the one aisle between the two counters.
If the two counters were continuous, they would cut off all through traffic.
Cut the one counter where the fridge is to let traffic flow go through the kitchen to those areas like the laundry room
It's a cut in the counters, designed to appear to be narrow, but it isn't narrow.
It could be 32" or 36" -- which is huge for any two people passing each other if they aren't strangers.
No drawers open onto this "service cut".
It's a passage area about 6 square feet (not more) where the people have counter on both sides, not wall, not door frame. So this gives it a huge feeling compared to a doorway or a corridor.

The aisle between the two counters could be 39" to 42" for now, during this thinking and simulation period. That gives you counters that are 2'4" in 'depth' front to back, or 2'5". Then, drawers can be 26" instead of the standard 21".

The kitchen footprint rectangle is wider where the powder room wall is. Here is where you have options to do a number of things with this extra space. More about this later.

By having two parallel counters, you place the entrance into your kitchen in the center of the two runs; how this affects your family room is a factor that I can't see yet.

mcmjilly - That's a good point. I don't love the idea of losing all of that space in the corner. Perhaps drawers and one side and a door on the other would make more sense in this case.

davidro1 - You have blown my mind a little. I hadn't even considered laying it out that way. I'm not sure that I can fully visualize how that will work, so I will play around with it today. To answer your question about the garbage, currently it goes from under the sink to the garage which is adjacent to the laundry room.

Thanks to both of you for your suggestions and giving me lots to think about!

The upshot in this concept is your kitchen becomes something like 1/3 aisle, 2/3 other things that are productive, like fridge and countertops with drawers that extend unhindered-ly. Any other layout gives you more aisle (or more "floor") and less of everything else. There are other advantages.

By linearizing the floor plan, planning it is easier and building it is faster, more efficient and less cost. Installation cost is lower: it requires less fine-tuning skill and less fitting. It's easier to light also. A galley kitchen has convenient working processes. Your workflow is more convenient than if the sink were in a corner, or within a couple inches of a corner. Total storage space (amount) is large.

You get a longer main counter, which gives you more room psychologically even though the room is occupied by countertops and tabletops. You already have dishdrawers, which improve convenience, ergonomics and give you more linear continuity of drawers under counters. Under the sink can be a large drawer of the same dimensions as the lower dishdrawer, and another (special) drawer above that one. In this longer counter, consider having a bar faucet at a miniscule prep sink at the pillar.

You have more options to change your mind as you build outward towards the LR. For example, you can make it a seamless transition toward a table that is unfitted (not bolted onto anything), placed near the powder room wall.

To make the long counter shorter, you could have wall ovens opposite the fridge. One a gas oven and one a combination oven like Advantium, AEG, Miele, Gaggenau, steam-microwave oven, etc. Making this counter shorter makes it about 10' which is still a long run.

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After linearizing conceptually (on paper or in your mind), you can add details that make the plan subtler and more complex, which put the X axis to use.

Example #1: on the now-bare wall (X axis) you can have shallow pantry shelves. Both counter runs still butt up to the X end wall (or almost) but you use the wall productively, without interfering with drawer opening, and without hindering elbow room. In the gap that these shelves make where the fridge hinge corner is, you can have storage (if the fridge is next to the wall, then this storage is next to the fridge side wall); a cubby hole for brooms and other thin or tall things. Also, in the corner next to the wall ovens and the shallow pantry shelves, you can store cookie sheet, pans and flat things.

Example #2: if you are unsure how to end the long counter at the LR, because of a pillar at the end, you can make that last piece of counter out of wood (e.g. lagan, numerar, varde at ikea) for the first iteration in reality, and later have glass or stone made to fit once you are sure of traffic flow and integration with LR furniture.

Example #3: if you want to close the open part of the kitchen, or define it more as an end-point, you can hang open (glass, light metal) shelves and/or screens (on either X or Y axis). They can be very strong and functional.

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the things that people say they "must have" now that they know what they know now, are uninterrupted counterspace, induction, light, exhaust venting, drawers (for storage and for ergonomics), and at least two zones prep and cleanup, (with 2 sinks if possible). Nobody has ever said they must have corners or lazy susans... ; - )

Here is a link that might be useful: after it's all over, what folks think is a must

Hi Sebby,

Welcome! :)

Please don't let davidro1 push you around.

Here is a link that might be useful: Thread: Tiny Kitchen Layout

Welcome to Kitchens!

Do you need the peninsula? Is there a reason for it?

Have you considered an "L" with the range on the "top" wall and the sink on the right wall (using the drawing w/dimensions to determine left/right, top/bottom)?

Here are some ideas. I tired to keep the plumbing as close as possible to the original location.

Oh, in all except Layout #3, the counter run along the right wall is 27" deep with 15" deep uppers. This gives you a bit more workspace on the counter and quite a bit more storage in the upper cabinets. You'd be surprised how much of a difference those 3" make in upper cabinets!

The cabinet above the sink is farther off the surface and could be a dish rack for both utilitarian as well as aesthetic value.

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This one is probably my favorite...

Plenty of prep space, plenty of room around the range, decent pantry space, and more open.

I'm of two minds concerning the MW. It could be put in the corner as I show it, but it could also be a MW drawer in the 24" cabinet to the left of the range. In the corner, it gives you the full height of the 24" cabinet for storage. In the drawer, it opens up the counter completely and is more open.

(That cabinet to the left of the range must be drawers. If it has doors, you'll need around an 1" of filler b/w the wall and cabinet so the cabinet might have to be narrower...assuming full-overlay or frameless cabinets.)

Here it is with the primary zones marked (I put a MW drawer in this one so you could see it):

Why a double-bowl, 36" wide sink? Because (1) it allows you to use one bowl for prepping and one for dirty dishes and (2) the larger bowl can be 21" wide...approx the same width you would get using a single-bowl, 24" wide sink base.

Here is a link that might be useful: Read Me If You're New To GW Kitchens!

Just realized I put in a regular DW instead of DW Drawers! They're the same width, they just won't stick out as far.

sebby, welcome and have fun. You are not sugarcookie. In the interest of keeping her remarks in context, I'll link you to her first thread.

Here is a link that might be useful: thread from early January

Hi Sebby,

No worries... buehl is a layout guru around here, as you can see. You are in very good hands. :)

GardenWeb is a wonderful place with wonderful people. But once in awhile, things go unchecked because people are too nice to say anything.

I didn't think my remark (singular) required an extra "context"; the extra thread (150 posts!) really only serves as a distraction. If you are at all interested, read the post of Tue, Jan 18, 11 at 8:12 from below, and let the words speak for themselves. Then YOU can decide if more "context" is needed, which was provided by the post's author.

I hope your kitchen will become everything you dream. :)

Here is a link that might be useful: Thread: Tiny Kitchen Layout

SugarCookie - Thanks for the warm welcome. Sounds like you were in a very similar position as me not too long ago. I hope to be able to learn from your experiences. :-)

davidro1 - Still working on your ideas. DH has been somewhat resistant to the galley idea, but I think only because it's such a change from what we have now. We definitely have not ruled it out and are considering all options at this point. I still think that it makes a lot of sense.

buehl - You are awesome. Thanks for the welcome, and for providing so many incredible layouts! This will take me some time to digest, as well as discussing with DH to get his feelings on all of it. To answer your questions, we don't necessary need the peninsula. The main reason for keeping it was to extend the countertop/work area and to provide some separation between the kitchen and family room. I had not considered putting the range on the top wall, but that does appeal to me as I'd rather be looking at the range from the family room instead of the fridge (as we currently have it.) One thing that my original drawings did not make clear is that our fridge is not counter depth. My plan was to recess it into the wall if it stays on the same wall that it currently is, but if that could be avoided by moving it somewhere else, that would be preferable.

I'll post back once I've incorporated everyone's ideas and come up with our next plan. Thanks again!

Refrigerator: In layouts #1 & 4 it doesn't matter if your refrigerator is standard or counter-depth. The 60" aisle would be reduced a little to maybe 54", but that's still a plenty wide enough aisle.

You could make the 9" pullout into a side-opening, 9" deep pantry cabinet with shelves. The deeper refrigerator would give you a wider pantry.

In Layouts #2 & 3, it will matter...unless you can recess it into the Laundry Room wall and even, possibly, into the room itself a couple of inches.

Well, well, you are welcome too; i was glad to be able to display ideas and develop them. You may reject or keep any fraction of any idea without consequence.

In your condo, maybe you have enough storage space nearby. After all, you have a garage. So, it could be that you do not need ideas I wrote out, which were based on storage as a requirement. My question about garbage is similar. In my kitchen, after lots of planning, we decided to minimize our trash bin size in our renovated kitchen. This is because we have a place to take trash to, very close by. So, we now remove trash from the kitchen a little more often than we used to. Smaller quantities, more often.

One hard to handle question is how to separate the areas, LR and kitchen. At the moment, it's an openminded time, thinking about how you will use the space you have. In my case, we saw another condo where the new kitchen took a larger footprint and we said no to that. It was all about the views, i.e. wanting not-to-see certain things. (this is one of the attractions of a deep sink, btw, because it removes from view many items that are going to be washed later.)

My using the present indicative tense is a way to keep the talk simple. Were I to put verbs in the conditional tense it might meet the requirement more, for certain readers, but this is not to be. One thing I've learned, and changed, after that interaction last January (referred to above) is to get the big subjects out right at the beginning. Buehl dealt with these subjects too; I'm not unique in this. Some ideas take a lot of time to become accepted as normal or desirable, so it will be a time of shifting sands for a while.

My small kitchen reno managed to fit into the same footprint (not expanded into the LR) and give us a whole lot more than we had before. Hope yours does too.