Kitchen Remodel - Eliminating Peninsula but Stuck with Support Wall

6 years ago

I've attached the photos of our current kitchen (excuse the clutter) and the kitchen that inspired our new layout. You'll note that we cannot remove the 45" support wall that will remain at the spot where the peninsula is being removed. I'm struggling to figure out how to design around this wall without it looking random. Some thoughts I've had are using it as a bookshelf for cookbooks and/or coffee bar along the side closest to the windows. I've also considered continuing the counter space after the wall to butt up against windows but the cabinets would need to be shallower than standard and the ceiling in the window room is pitched. I'm not in love with any option I've been able to come up with and am eager for your ideas.

Changes we're making to transform our kitchen:
1. Flip flop location of range/microwave and fridge
2. Remove existing pantry and substitute with additional counter space and cabinets.
3. Replace desk area with standard counter space and cabinets.
4. Center fridge in new location and replace existing cabinets with full length pantry cabinets on either side of fridge.
5. Eliminate peninsula up to support wall.
6. Replace existing island with 4'x8' island including the sink and dishwasher.
7. Big farmhouse table in window room (to act as dining table as 'dining room' is utilized as a playroom).

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Anthony Perez

6 years ago

I think your plan is workable. here is a visual

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Comments (37)

PRO
Joseph Corlett, LLC
6 years ago
Kristina:

The people here who know a lot more about kitchen design than I are going to want to see a detailed plan view (looking down from the ceiling) with measurements of the existing conditions before they'll be able to help.
PRO
Diana Bier Interiors, LLC
6 years ago
Joseph is correct--you need to provide more specifics, and realize that what you're asking will require a lot of work. Design work, with lots of details. You may want to inquire about a certified kitchen designer who can save you a lot of time and money with a detailed plan for what you want to accomplish.
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Round and round on what to do...very familiar ground for most of us here! About your layout above... I get that you want: More counterspace (and, I assume, placed where it will actually be useful for prepping) Keep some form of FR in the existing space - is that b/c of the fireplace? Keep the formal DR as-is b/c you don't want to knock down the load-bearing wall b/w the kitchen & DR Keep the formal LR as-is since you don't want to knock down the load-bearing wall b/w the kitchen/FR & LR Have table seating in the kitchen itself -- or -- Have peninsula seating But... You have very limited space to fit all that in - that's why you currently don't have a lot of counterspace. So, if you aren't willing to add more space (by adding onto the house or by merging existing spaces), it's going to be difficult to "have it all" The peninsula, as drawn, will not comfortably seat 5 people and seating inside the "U" puts people in the middle of the work space. That seat on the end is also in the aisle of what you have said is a busy path. So, are you willing to consider doing a few things such as: Move/change windows? Open a doorway in the LR wall to lead into the LR - not so wide that you have to do expensive load-bearing posts, etc., but wide enough for a doorway? Move the Powder Room to add that space to the kitchen? Move the closet? Eliminate the FR as a "FR" and merge it into the kitchen to add yet more space? Here's a layout that might work if you're willing to make the changes I asked about above. (Note: Your floor plan is missing key elements like the windows on the top wall in the kitchen and the measurements in the other rooms since they are not all the same size...I think I've got them.) General... The Powder Room and Closet have been relocated to off the Foyer. They do take about 6" off the FR/LR, but I don't think it's an issue(YMMV) The former PR + Kitchen have been merged into a larger kitchen The FR has been converted into a dining area that's completely open to the kitchen - much more comfortable seating for everyone for meals, visiting, etc. With it open to the kitchen, guests can easily sit there and enjoy your company + fireplace + comfortable seating. A 5' wide doorway has been opened b/w the former FR/now table space and the formal LR The formal LR has been converted into a Family/Living Room. You might consider a future fireplace (gas or wood-burning) in that room as well...if you're into fireplaces (I am, so if you are, I can relate!) The formal DR can remain as-is or it could be converted to a Library/Computer Room with a comfy chair or two that would be a quiet respite from the hectic day-to-day activities! Put a door at both entrances (Kitchen & Foyer) to close it off when needed - for either quiet or to keep casual traffic out of it to help keep it tidy. ...
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Hi Buehl, Here are the answers to your questions: "Has the garage door been moved in your layout (1st pic)? Your DH's drawing has it in the kitchen but your layout has it in the DR..." Yes, in Plan B - expanding into the dining room -- one of the proposed changes we depicted is moving the door to the garage a few feet over into what is now the dining room. That would free up space for a 36" fridge. Currently the door is still in the kitchen. "Can the wall b/w the Foyer and the table space be moved? Maybe 2' into the Foyer??" No because that wall extends well into the family room. There is also a hallway closet in the foyer that is right off the kitchen and behind our current pantry closet. "Would you consider switching the Kitchen & DR? Maybe make the table area the DR and then have a big kitchen? I don't know if it would work...I'm just throwing ideas out there! (I suspect those tall windows will be a problem, so probably not...but you never know!) BTW...the reason I asked in my previous post about expanding into the Foyer is that your first "IKEA" layout says the table area is 11'0" yet your 2nd layout & your DH's show 8'6"...so it looked like you expanded into the Foyer." Hm...switching the DR and kitchen..I don't think it would work since the eat-in area is right in the middle of the house and open on all sides. However, (now you've got me thinking!) I guess you could leave the table where it is right now in the eat-in area and then focus on expanding the kitchen area into the current DR by taking down part of the wall that separates them, maybe filling up the space in the DR with a butler's pantry along the one solid wall (as I have depicted in the Plan B layout), a larger island than I have depicted with some bar stools, and maybe some armchairs on either side of the tall windows and a small desk in the corner (depicted in black in Plan B). But would that look natural or totally contrived to fit the space? That's my worry...that if we make these changes it will look like some amateurish DIY job rather than something that fits the house organically. I just remeasured the table area and it is indeed 8'6" not 11'. Sorry for the discrepancies...the numbers may have changed a few times since I started this process! I hope I haven't confused you even further. It's frustrating that we live in a home that is plenty big for our little family (just the 3 of us) but that is so oddly configured that the space doesn't work for us. Anyway, thanks for sticking with me so far.
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Remove windows? Especially a nice bay that lets in a lot of good light (per the photos)? Never. No. No. No! I really can't imagine how this would be an improvement. I like benjesbride's idea. If you submit a floor plan with dimensions, something done by hand is fine, preferably on graph paper but not totally necessary if you don't have it/can't get it, there are many talented folks here who can help you out. I'm guessing there will be several places that lend themselves to a good pantry without having to close those windows up. Do me a favor, please. Pile up boxes or hang cardboard from the ceiling or something else that gives you the effect of the loss of space in that bay and the loss of light from those windows and live with it for awhile and see how it feels. Imagine the light on dark winter, overcast days as well as the current, probably sunny, days. I'm guessing you'll find it gloomy. I know I would.
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Thanks for the advice, Kristine! I moved some things around in the Ikea planner like you suggested. Your suggestion for the fridge location is where my fridge is currently located. I moved it in my original plan because I dislike how much it sticks out into the middle of the room. I could probably solve that issue by getting a counter-depth fridge. I need to do more research on that because I am concerned that we won't have enough fridge space with a counter depth model. I frequently put cookie sheets in the fridge and they take up the entire depth of my current fridge (a side-by-side model). I think I could fit them in a counter depth fridge if I got the kind with 2 french doors on the top and the freezer on the bottom. I moved the wall oven/micro over to the far left wall because I didn't want to make the peninsula any shorter than it already is. It is only 6 feet and any smaller seems like it won't be long enough. I would like to be able to have enough space for 6 girls to be working around it at one time and 6 feet will already be tight (3 girls on each side). I do really like moving the cooktop to the far left wall as well. It seems to give me a lot more bottom drawers for storage along the top wall which would be great. I was only able to fit an 18" cabinet between the cooktop and the wall oven. I'm not sure that is enough space on that side. I think I remember seeing that 24" of working space should be the minimum. I could get more space by using a range instead, but I don't really like that setup. I frequently use both the oven and the stovetop at the same time with 2 people cooking. So the person using the stovetop is always in the way of the person trying to open the oven. I would really like to have the 2 separated.
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PRO
Sina Sadeddin Architectural Design
6 years ago
If you can't remove that support wall I have to say it doesn't sound like your plan will work. But post the layout and all the other info and we can see if we can come up with something close. Also, hire a KD if you haven't already.
Kristina Dell
Original Author
6 years ago
last modified: 6 years ago
Here is the layout from when we bought the house and then here is a drawing of the revisions we'd like to make (island will be 4'x8'). Let me know if any more detail is needed!
sheloveslayouts
6 years ago
Have you thought about moving the kitchen into the playroom/dining room, making the present kitchen and dinette your dining room and making the morning room your playroom?

I imagine your kitchen feels a bit cave like with no exterior walls. Also, being in the center of your house it turns into an intersection of traffic paths so you can't utilize all the square footage for cabinets, etc. With no windows and a lot of traffic, I think that central room is better suited to a dining space.
enjoythejourney
6 years ago
If I understand your plan correctly, you are centering your fridge between two tall, presumably 24” deep pantry cupboards, where the stove is now. That will only leave you with 20 of 45 inches of support wall, facing the dining room. I’d imagine if you just hung a chalkboard or wine rack or some such, it would look fine.
Kristina Dell
Original Author
6 years ago
@enjoythejourney You correctly understand our plan! And thank you for those suggestions!! As basic as they sound, they are not options I thought of and might just be what I needed to hear!! :) If you have any other suggestions, no matter how simple/obvious they may seem, please let me know!
Kathi Steele
6 years ago
Kristina, the refrigerator needs to be where guests can get to it without being in the thick of cooking, prepping or cleaning. Where it is now is an awesome spot.

You need to rethink the desk area and make that a "drink station". We did that with our old 80's kitchen and I love it. Actually, our kitchen layout is pretty close to yours. We recently remodeled and used the same foot print. You just need to figure out how to use yours. You are welcome to visit my Houzz page and check out the kitchen remodel.
kathi_steele's ideas · More Info
Also, the plan you show has much, much more floor space between the island and your fridge and the island and your sink. You do not have that floor space to do that. You need a minimum of 42" between sink and island and 48" between fridge and island so that you can have good traffic flow and still work.

Remove the microwave from over the stove and move it to the pantry wall by your kitchen. You can have your pantry, counter top, microwave and fridge in the area where your desk, counter, and fridge are now.

It would be awesome if you could remove every single thing from on top of the cabinets and on the countertops and in the empty spaces and go thru a purging. Decide if you have to have this and where it should live permanently. As you can see from your inspiration picture, they have very little out. Knives are in a drawer, as are utensils, etc. IMHO, this makes for an awesome cooking environment.
Kristina Dell
Original Author
6 years ago
@Anthony Perez Thank you!!! I really appreciate you taking the time to make it visual for us. One question.. We had actually planned to have full pantry cabinets on the wall with the fridge.. In your images the fridge is closest to the support wall which is an option we've toyed with, but we've been leaning towards centering the fridge and having pantry on either side.. which would you recommend?
sheloveslayouts
6 years ago
Here are a few thoughts about your plan. (note: You should probably remove the personal data from the concept plan you posted.)

- You might consider moving the doorway to the dining room to the exterior wall. Otherwise a traffic path (red arrow) cuts through your cooking zone (orange oval.) I try to avoid that because I had that in our last house and with two kiddos underfoot it was nerve wracking sometimes.

-Speaking of cooking zone, I would make the aisle in the cooking zone < 48". Again, that old house of mine had a 60" aisle between sink and range and it was just a pain moving stuff from sink prep to range--drip drip drip--from range to drain something in the sink--drip drip drip. My aisle between sink and range is presently about 40" and I really appreciate that I just have to pivot between the two. However, in a perfect layout I would just choose continuous counter between the two.

- If you draw a line between the center of fridge and center of sink (blue line), the line shouldn't cut into the island more than 12" or it'll have the potential to become a hip bruiser.
Kristina Dell
Original Author
6 years ago
@benjesbride Thank you for all of your suggestions!

In regards to your initial thoughts, we did consider using the designated dining room as the kitchen and kitchen as the dining area as you suggested.. a couple things ultimately made us decide against that route: 1. The designated dining room has 2 bay windows that would minimize counter space
2. Cost to relocate appliances and other necessities (ie water)

In regards to your most recent input -- your advice is extremely helpful! We will definitely be sure to implement these considerations! Also, as I'm getting used to my new phone I didn't even catch that our personal info was on the drawing.. thank you for pointing that out.. do you know how I can edit my comment to correct that? I'm new to Houszz and am not figuring it out quickly on my own..
PRO
Anthony Perez
6 years ago
I prefer to have the refrigerator all the way to the right and counter space on the left
sheloveslayouts
6 years ago
If you look at your comment that has the image, there should be an edit link.
PRO
Patricia Colwell Consulting
6 years ago
FYI your inspiration kitchen design has many flaws too . Get a good kitchen designer ASAP and they can help make some of the dreams come true.
sheloveslayouts
6 years ago
last modified: 6 years ago
What are the dimensions of those bay windows? Width x height and distance from floor? I want to work out a plan that doesn't require changing them and a plan that just changes the one on the side of the house.

Your current plan moves your sink, fridge and range. It's not much more work to move those things into the room next door. Moving water and electrical 11 feet wouldn't keep me from a better kitchen and overall improved home layout. If you like a kitchen-to-dining room plan, at least get an estimate to compare.
Kathi Steele
6 years ago
My 2cents worth.....The layout that you have now is very functional in that the island is perfect for prepping, the stove is not in a traffic zone, the fridge is accessible to all and they are not in the way of the cooking and prepping.

I disagree with benjesbride, I have 52" between my island and my stove and I would NOT make it smaller. I have people in the kitchen that like to "help" and the extra space gives them room to move and not bother me!!

I would center your range on the wall it is on now, so the upper cabinet on either side is the same width. I used the lower, smaller space as a tall cabinet to put cutting boards and cookie sheets.

I am not sure why you want to eliminate the bar area and add seating at the island when the kitchen table is 5' away? You are losing wonderful countertop space.

Here are some great articles you should mull over...

https://www.houzz.com/discussions/new-to-kitchens-read-me-first-dsvw-vd~4306041

https://www.houzz.com/discussions/things-you-added-or-removed-that-you-love-regret-in-your-kitchen-renov-dsvw-vd~4273188

I am trying to find Sophie's article about 32 things you should consider, but I'm having trouble!!
sheloveslayouts
6 years ago
http://starcraftcustombuilders.com/kitchen.design.rules.htm#.WqKyd5Pwb6A
Kristina Dell
Original Author
6 years ago
@Anthony Perez Are your preferences about the placement of the fridge and counter space aesthetic, functional or both?

@Patricia Colwell Consulting Do you mind elaborating on what flaws you see?

@benjesbride I've tried logging in from both my phone and iPad and neither is giving me the option to edit as you show.. Are you logging in from a computer or do you have any idea why I wouldn't see these options?

In terms of the windows in the designated dining room -- I misspoke when I said the designated dining room has 2 bay windows. In fact, the living room has 1 and the designated dining room has 1 and then each room has flat windows too. The bay window in the designated dining room is 17" off the floor, 64" tall and 80" wide; the flat window along the other wall is 17" off the floor, 64" tall and 70" wide. The wall between the designated dining room and living room has a wide open doorway barely dividing the two rooms and the only remaining wall is the wall dividing the designated dining room and current kitchen with the standard doorway... all of this leaves very little room for counters and appliances without taking out the windows... does that make sense?

@Kathi Steele Just to make sure we're on the same page the only space we are 'eliminating' is the peninsula which will be absorbed into a much bigger island. The problems we are trying to solve for are:
1. The kitchen area currently feels congested and disjointed from the dining area, and the dining area already feels tight with just a moderate size table where we would like a large farmhouse table to be able to host family gatherings.
2. Though you say the island is perfect for prepping, the prepping space actually feels rather limited as the island today is pretty shallow and the width gets sucked up quickly with mixing bowls etc leaving limited space for cutting and placing prepped food to the side.. we would prefer more counter space on either side of the stove in addition to the island for prep.
Does that make sense?
sheloveslayouts
6 years ago
I’m able to edit all comments on all devices. If you’re logged in as the user name on the comment, I have no idea why you don’t have an edit option. I’d email tech support. That’s weird!

Is the dining bay window on the side wall or the back yard wall?
Kristina Dell
Original Author
6 years ago
@benjesbride The bay window is along the side yard and the flat window is along the backyard. The wide doorway into the living room faces towards the front yard.
Jamie Ludwig
6 years ago
I like your concept the way you have it drawn. It should look very close to your inspiration photo!! I really like all the pantry storage around the frig in the inspiration photo. That is a great idea! Please consider a under the counter microwave so you can do a nice hood over your stove! That can be a real center piece for the wall where your stove is! Are you upgrading the white appliances to stainless steel??
Jamie Ludwig
6 years ago
A statement hood over your stove can really give your kitchen that "High End" custom look (you can just see the under the counter microwave in the first photo):

Hinsdale Renovation · More Info
The hood in the top photo can be made by the cabinet company to match the cabinets you choose.
Castellina 1394 · More Info

Here is another "cabinet" hood option:
Orono Custom Home · More Info
kariyava
6 years ago
You have a lot of good input. I have a couple suggestions (1) post this in the kitchen forum -- you'll get additional input there, and (2) please don't put your fridge next to a wall -- you'll find it hard to open the door next to the wall all the way.
Kristina Dell
Original Author
6 years ago
@Jamie Ludwig Thank you! We will be updating all appliances that aren't already to stainless steel. Additionally we are considering a pull out drawer style microwave for the reasons you state.. if we do this, where would you suggest we put the microwave drawer? The island is already maxed out with drawers, a pullout garbage, and the sink with cabinets under it.
Kristina Dell
Original Author
6 years ago
@Jamie Ludwig Thanks also for the hood examples!
Jamie Ludwig
6 years ago
last modified: 6 years ago
I would put it to either side of your range (not across from your dishwasher so opening them will not conflict). Here is the one I got from Lowe's:

Sharp 1.2 cubic foot. Love that there is no handle to bump into!!!
Opens and shuts with a push button. I did put mine in the island since my sink and dishwasher are not there.
Jamie Ludwig
6 years ago
Here is what my hood will look like:
sheloveslayouts
6 years ago
last modified: 6 years ago
I enjoyed trying out this idea. It's just for fun. It's based on most new homes having a quiet "away space" such as an office at the front of the house and a "great room" situation at the back of the house.

I closed off the existing dining room/living room opening to create a great room style open kitchen-dining-family room. The dining room is about 13'4x13'4 which is quite a nice size for a dining room.

Depending on what's going on outside that rear-facing window, I thought it would be cool to change the window to a sliding glass door and create a grilling porch there off the kitchen.

Anyhoo. Here ya go...
Kristina Dell
Original Author
6 years ago
@benjesbride Thank you for taking the time and attention to put this together! It will definitely give us something else to consider!
Kristina Dell
Original Author
6 years ago
@benjesbride Thank you for taking the time and attention to put this together! It will definitely give us something else to consider!
milennka
6 years ago
Kristina, back to your fridge placement. I had a kitchen where the fridge was next to a wall. It was not functional as the right door had limited space to open. Very frustrating.
PRO
Anthony Perez
6 years ago
@Kristina Dell, I prefer to have the refrigerator next to the wall because it gives more counter space, in your case it gives you the opportunity to have maybe a coffee station or a wet bar, if you feel like you have enough counter space and you need more storage, the option of the pantries to the left will be a very good one as well.
In Reference to the comments about the Refrigerator next to a wall, I have done it hundreds of times, all you need to do is to have the spec of the refrigerator when you plan and make sure you follow the clearance recommendations, they vary depending on the model. Look at pictures of ( not integrated)refrigerators between a run of cabinets versus pictures with refrigerators at the end of the run. If you don’t mind that sticks 6 or 7 inches maybe you can opt for that option
I hope you find the information helpful
Kathi Steele
6 years ago
We planned our wall and fridge placement so that the fridge could be next to the wall.
kathi_steele's ideas · More Info
If it is done correctly, you don't have to worry about the wall.
valeriepritchard_1
6 years ago
Many fridges are designed to open beside a wall, and have a mechanism which enables them to open the door in a flush manner. I have a fridge with this feature.

You also may want to consider a wall oven/microwave combo, I absolutely love mine. You could put your cooktop on your island( I choose an induction cooktop so there would be no burns).

Please show us your finished kitchen!
sheloveslayouts
6 years ago
IMO, the greater issue with putting the fridge against the morning room (exterior?) wall is the path from fridge to sink. Not only are you walking greater than 9 feet from fridge to sink (<9’ is the NKBA recommendation) you’re also walking around an obstacle.

Every kitchen has compromises. If one has no other choice, 9+ feet around an island could be understandable, but there are better choices here.
Susan Davis
6 years ago
This is late to the party but the support for this wall/roof is the beam in the ceiling above the pony wall.....I think the beam is supporting the the ceiling and the pony wall can be removed for a whole opening? But you will have to move the plumbing and the electrical to do it, but hey, it can be done.....you might have to give up some of the dream kitchen ideas, but you can remove that peninsula wall plus the plumbing and the electrical....it isn't that much money in the scheme of a new kitchen.