I'm sorry to see your lawn did not take. Before you get into a renovation, what do you think the problem was that it did not work the first time? I'm thinking November was a little late, but there might be more to it. What kind of grass seed did you use? How did you water it? When did you use weed n feed? Do you have any of the target grass left?

"BTW - history completely contradicts your belief in soil testing. Almost nobody gets soil tests now and they weren't even available to homeowners until recently. Like a lot of modern technology, it can be a useful tool. However, people got along just fine without them in the not to distant past." What does that even mean? History contradicts your belief in soil testing? How does history contradict a belief in soil testing? That sentence is an example of making up something that sounds intelligent but has no basis in fact. Soil testing is an extremely important part of all the crops growing in this country. If we had a better understanding of soil science earlier in the 20th century then the dust bowl probably wouldn't have happened, or at least it wouldn't have been so bad. Turfgrass, like any crop, has its ideal soil conditions. The closer you can get to the ideal, the healthier the grass. How would you know if you need lime? Let's say you need lime, which one would you use? What about a phosphorus deficiency. Most fertilizers have little P, so are you supposed to guess if you have deficiencies? Andy's plan is the right way to do it. Sure you can do a renovation by omitting steps, but if you want the best results you will do it the right way. Rushing it will usually result in doing it again next fall.

Thanks to all who replied to my question. I read both the WS FAQs and SS thread. I honestly never thought I had to cover anything I planted outside when the weather was nice - just let Mother Nature do her job. Now, I'll put the stuff I had inside, outside with a cover. I especially liked the FAQ "Poster Suggestions for Flats from Recycleables" and also, the suggestions posted to this thread regarding containers. I needed to know what to start saving now in order to WS as economically and environmentally as possible. What wonderfully invented ideas people had. I had asked about coffee cans a few months back but did not get a resounding "Good Idea" so I guess I'll put those in the cycle bin and stick to the more widely used plastics that light can get through. Great to hear from my New England and Canadian neighbors - we can all commiserate together about all this rain (what was THAT last night?). Also, thanks to all for the "Welcomes" to the forum. I appreciate your time and thoughtfullness in helping me out. I'm sure I'll you'll be hearing from me again with more stupid questions! Zahzeen

Scarlett, heavy mulching and direct sowing don't mix. The mulch is going to prevent weed seeds from germinating, will feed and help to condition the soil, help prevent compaction in your beds with heavy fall and winter rains but its going to inhibit germination of desirable seeds you might sow too. Its not going to smother aggressive or perennial weeds that have already taken hold - no way around it, you're going to need to pull those getting the roots out too so they don't resprout. There are a number of type weed seeds that will germinate in Fall and Winter here so mulch applied before Fall rains begin will cut down on your coming season chores, weeding. It looks like we share our zone. What time of year you apply your mulch isn't as critical here (looking your post in the soils/compost forum)...ground doesn't really freeze to any depth in a normal winter. I will try to do my major cleanup and mulching in Spring but for a number of reasons this year I'm finishing up now. We're still restoring beds (year two in this location) and I've just now finished spreading 8 yards of purchased compost as a top dressing as my mulch for this year.....beds had been long neglected and were overrun run with alder, blackberry, ivy. If you'll look above at FAQs, you'll see that the type of winter sowing done and discussed here is accomplished in pots or recycled containers outdoors in winter....most use recycled, while I use pots (have hundreds over many years). That would work for you with the seeds you would like to start - you could do your bed cleaning and mulching now. In Spring when you have seedlings and young plants, you can pull back the mulch in the areas you are working, plant your perennials from the containers they have germinated in, push the mulch back into place around them. So, my shorter response is, get those weeds under control and your beds and its soil in shape - then concentrate on planting. There really is not a good way to both at the same time, and you'll benefit from doing the preliminary work first more than you can know. Soil and weeds first, permanent plantings later.