Garden gal When I look those up the pictures I find are all very different but all say Pennsylvania Blue Stone. I guess I assumed "blue" referred to the color but maybe thats the style. So does it come in different colors? These are the pictures that pull up when I search Pennsylvania Blue Stone. The last one is more of what I was visualizing.

Lauren I can see that. Even in that third one I can see some green undertones in some of the stones. I realized after studying those pictures that the center one is grouted or has mortar between the stones and the first and last don't. I much prefer it without.

They come in various shades but typically a true PA bluestone is blue :-)) You just have to find the right supplier and pick out the pavers individually to assure consistent coloring.

Lauren when I spoke to a contractor about that when deciding whether we wanted to go stamped concrete or pavers he told me that they prep the ground in a certain way to keep weeds and grass out. Im not sure if that entails a plastic liner or what. I didn't get into too much detail.

@ Pink_Peony. Bluestone comes in a wide, wide variety of options, all meaning something different.

Terminology is fairly universal among quarries, distributors, architects and contractors. This is a comprehensive list to the best of my knowledge on what is available in the market.

Blue/Blue Thermal (this is the best and most consistent material)

Blue/Blue Natural Cleft

Full Range Thermal

Full Range Natural Cleft

Tumbled (distressed)

Lilac Thermal

Lilac Natural Cleft

Bluestone is sold in a wide variety of sizes. If you buy a piece that is 12"x18" that is considered nominal, meaning that it is not exactly that size, only close. You can also buy what is referred to as "full dimensional" meaning each piece is exactly as measured.

Then there is the installation method which also varies widely. It can be done on compacted gravel as a flexible system. It can be done in a permeable configuration. It can be installed on a concrete base. The joints can be mortared. The joints can be caulked. The joints can receive polymeric sand. The joints can receive old fashioned jointing sand.

You can buy it with a beveled edge, a chiseled edge or with no edge treatment.

You can buy bluestone stair treads as straight-faced, rock-faced, or bull-nosed.

So, looking at photos online can be a bit confusing because bluestone is widely variable even though it is quarried almost exclusively in Pennsylvania and a small area of New York.

Assorted bluestone styles https://www.houzz.com/projects/2794325/bluestone-patios

Blue/Blue Natural Cleft https://www.houzz.com/projects/199956/lincoln-park-bluestone

Blue/Blue Thermal https://www.houzz.com/projects/433808/bluestone-patio-new-lenox

Full Range Natural Cleft https://www.houzz.com/projects/1144026/bluestone-patio-st-charles

Bluestone looks good with contemporary homes, classic Colonial homes or with a bungalow built in the 30's. There is a bluestone for almost any application with an assortment of details to personalize it for your home and your tastes.

Good luck!! If you opt for bluestone or require additional information you are welcome to call our office and ask for John and I'll be happy to talk you through it, which might be more practical than long missives here. Again, bluestone is magical when the installation is right and the materials work with the home.

Here is bluestone with a clay brick border featuring a cairn constructed out of irregular bluestone. This is a dry set application with the joints butted nominally.

Here is an outdoor kitchen from an older projected I designed with colleague, Guillermo Rangel. It's full range bluestone on concrete. The counters are full range thermal. You can also see bluestone details in the fireplace.

Nothing against bluestone (except when it did a lot of spalling as one unfortunate OP wrote about in a thread not too long ago. I don't think a cause was determined) but neither have I anything against pavers or brick. Lots of nice patios have been built of these materials. General advice: don't go too light a color. The reflection can be blinding in direct sun. Don't use a blend that has a lot of color or contrast variation jumping visually all over the place. Too much of that and it can look hillbilly. Personally, I don't care too much for tans and browns. They look dingy or grimy to me. I like variations of reds and greys. I think they look cleaner and fresher. They go with each other and they go with a lot of commonly used architectural colors, such as the samples above. If I had a lot of greys going on with everything else (the house) I think I would explore the red category so as to get away from the "government sameness" look. Contrasting edgings (like piping) is one way to add interest and class. It can sharpen up and add interest to the scene.

John, sometimes you are a repository of technical knowledge and I am bedazzled.

John, I have many times over the years been referred to as a repository, though my content was not referenced so kindly as you just have. :) Thank you.

The spalling issue, which has been written about with some level of frequency, is probably due to buying bluestone that is too thin and has a lot of cleft in it.

Cleft is reduced in the quarry and even after a piece has been hand-chiseled it may still have undesirable cleft left that is subject to spalling. That stuff goes in the garbage pile at better quarries. Buying 2" material (actually 1 1/2") instead of 1" material (actually 3/4") is also wise.

For crappy pieces that actually make it to a job site, a good craftsman can look at the cross-section of individual pieces during installation, assess potential spalling issues and set them aside as not useable.

Not sure if you were referencing tans and browns of bluestone specifically, or tans and browns in general as something to eschew in a patio. If referencing bluestone I would agree that blue/blue is the more attractive option 90% of the time. That's a cogent thought for @Pink_Peony to consider. Too much tan can look grungy, but the Full Range/Natural Cleft does have it's place, usually in more casual settings.

@Pink_Peony. Normally, I wouldn't post progress photos but here is a good look at what Blue/Blue Thermal looks like long before anybody (including me) digitally alters reality. Basically, you get two or three color ranges with Blue/Blue. If you wanted it to be all one color, you could get that, but you would pay a premium.

Dry, during installation.

Hosed down after site clean-up.

As you can see from the photos bluestone could just as easily be referenced as Pennsylvania Graystone. As an FYI.......The stone pieces in the transoms at the top of the cedar panel are actually porcelain, not bluestone, because they weigh so much less.

Below is what I meant by looking at the cross section of individual pieces. What you see stacked there is all 2" material. There might be a bad piece in there somewhere that was rejected but I don't see it. The monolithic step is also bluestone. Buying quality material from good distributors or quarries makes all the difference.

Here is a blue/blue natural cleft installation that is about 7 years old. This is a rare case where we actually chipped the joints instead of sanding them.

Thank you so much John for taking the time to explain this all to me and post the pictures, which are stunning. My husband and I had the opportunity to attend a home show today in our area (NC). There were at least a dozen Landscapers there who specialize in pavers. It was interesting for us to see these materials up close and personal. I came home with huge catalogs of various products to comb over. After asking three different companies there about Pennsylvania Blue stone we were told by two that it wasnt the best product to use on clay soils. The other said we could do it but it would double our price on the project material. After asking those three we decided we would certainly need to be doing a lot more research. The catalogs I was sent home with are,

Newline

Pavestone

canyon stone

Cambridge Paving Stones (this one has some nice looking ones)

Belgard

Tremron

Of course I've no idea what any of this means. You can bet I will be pouring over these in depth. I'm assuming these are all man made pavers and the Pennsylvania Blue stone is a real quarried stone.

Does soil type play a large factor in the type of pavers we should choose? Our last home had extensive hardscape done in stamped concrete and we had major issues which we were later told was due to clay soil. This is why it was recommended for us to use Pavers this time around.

John, I love the variation in the colors of the last photos you posted here. I think its very pretty and adds a lot of depth.

Yardvaark, I'm certain that gray is the way I want to go. Im not a big Tan or brown person and I'm not a big red person either.

I would like to do something with the brick siding they are putting on my house whether that be in an outdoor fireplace or bordering the gray paver patio (not sure if thats possible) or the body of of our outdoor grill island. I'm formulating some other ideas n regards to another stone I think coordinates well with the brick too. I'll have to research the name and find a picture.

I’m thinking this Heritage Hamilton might be a possibility to use somewhere as well

@Pink_Peony

First, thank you for saying the work is stunning. Good field staff make all the difference.

Hmmmm.....There could be a construction driven reason why North Carolina clay is problematic for bluestone but Chicago clay is not. For the life of my I cannot think of what it would be. I would be very reluctant to accept that explanation without some engineering to back it up. Those contractors could be right, but I am suspicious of their simplistic response.

There used to be very few landscape material distributors but now they are a common site. I mention this because those distributors typically sell manufactured concrete pavers as well as an assortment of natural stone.

If you call a distributor that sells both manufactured and natural stone products, ask whether there are issues with bluestone or natural stone in your area. If they sell both types of paving products then they do not have a vested interest in selling modular brick versus natural stone. I suspect that the negative contractor responses at the show on bluestone are driven by the skill of their work forces, not an issue with clay soils, but perhaps not.

Of the manufacturers you listed I am somewhat familiar with Belgard and Pavestone. I took a look at the Cambridge stones you mentioned. Yes, Cambridge does have some very good looking product and they also have a trademarked face mix technique called Armor Tec. That casting technique is a real plus in my mind. Of all the modular products on the market I am most familiar with Unilock but I'm not sure if they are in the Carolina's.

If you do have distributors in your area ask them who the three best contractors are locally for you. What you will get is probably 1) Their biggest buyer, 2) The best installer, 3) The next best installer. :)

Great advice again John. Thank you! I’m wondering if maybe they didn’t do Penn Blue stone so they just said that. I’m notoriously suspicious by nature though LOL so will have to research this!

If the contractors specialize in pavers - and many do - then they tend to be reluctant to recommend natural stone or are unfamiliar with what's available and how to install. I find the best info comes from stoneyards or landscape supply outlets that feature both :-)

John, second guessing your repository comment had me chuckling.

thanks for mentioning the likeliest cause of bluestone spalling. I didn't remember coming across it in the prior thread where it was the main subject. I might not have caught the end of the thread.

I wasn't referencing tans and brown tinges of bluestone. Just tans and brown of pavers and everything else manufactured ... including and especially paint. Florida is 98% tan and brown. Saw huge amounts of it in California, and Oregon and Washington last summer. Enough already! Move on, people. There are better, less grimy color choices.

That is super handsome work in those photos!!!

Thanks John!

One more bluestone project to encourage you @pink_peony. Here's the before on day one with the designer pondering whether to add more cream to his coffee.

After, one year later.

Traditional Landscape · More Info

Traditional Patio · More Info

EP Henry makes very nice pavers that realistically resemble cut bluestone. They are available in VA & NC.

https://www.ephenry.com/photo-gallery/patios/

Also, I have used actual Bluestone in Virginia without incident...the photo below is full range bluestone:

Note: slate, which is different than bluestone, is very slippery when wet. Bluestone & pavers are not slippery.

Good info for her, Doug. Their Devonstone pavers, treads and coping look pretty sharp.

Beautiful pictures again! you haven't shown me one thing I haven't liked!

Don’t anyone panic. This is what i pulled from our building set backs file. Then made notations on. No architect yet. Still trying to visualize what we want. Low maintenance (part of the reason we’ve chosen to get a small lot). We’ve always had a built in kitchen to house our gas grill etc. As we get older we’ve come to realize we don’t need or use all the bells and whistles of an outdoor kitchen. So we want to do a small island (no seating) to house the grill. Hubby doesn’t want to face neighbors on either side when grilling. He also doesn’t want to walk all the way to back corner to grill. Would like it closer to the house. I can’t wrap my head around a grill island sitting in the middle of the yard. ???

I would like a free standing pergola with a sitting area /patio under it. We both are still debating an out door fire element. He wants a pit and i want a fireplace. Done with the smoke chasing me around a fire pit. He doesn’t want a gas fire pit. Sooo. It’s a small lot to max out but we don’t need expanses of lawn as our kids are grown and our dog is an indoor (mostly) dog. In fact she won’t even know what to do with a fenced in yard as she’s never had one. Our last home had approx. 1000 plus or more square feet of terraced stamped concrete patios and walk ways , stairs knee walls. We obviously are not going to do nearly that amount in pavers here.