Of the brands you list I've had Miele and Bosch. I'm with you - my Miele was underwhelming for the $1600 price tag twelve years ago. Very happy with the Bosch 800 series I bought last year for half the price. I have a 15 year old Bosch at a second home and that also performs very well.

I didn't need a softener and not sure I'd ever have one again as the Miele etched all my glassware supposedly because my water was too soft. Ended up having to use the China/Crystal cycle only so the temperature was low enough to reduce the etching. So dirty stuff didn't really get clean and there's no way I would put china or crystal in the DW with the etching problem.

You'd think the DW softener had nothing to do with it as it was supposedly disabled by the Miele authorized service person but it certainly gave me a bad taste for the DW softeners when I have a whole house softener. It also gave me a bad taste for Miele as everyone I contacted there was clueless in terms of solving the problem. "Your water is too soft and too hot".

I have something similar to the Bosch you are looking at and am very happy with it. It was the next to top of the line so has one less set of tines that fold down and probably one less setting or cycle and a minutia less insulation. The basket is actually in 2 sections. We sometimes use one, sometimes none but very rarely use both. I liked this one so much that I suggested to my sister that we get something similar for her house before she sold it.

Fauguy, I've read the saga about your machine beginning with water inlet valve and the latest installment of disappointment. Maybe a mid priced 5-600 dollar machine would suffice. Probably would last longer due to simplicity of design and ease of repair. But likely not as quiet and a few other minor features missing.

Sometimes, you can be pleasantly surprised by moderately priced items that exceed expectations versus over hyped slickly marketed products that over promise and under deliver. Your experience is disgraceful.

For those of you with Bosch, does the stainless have a coating on it (similar to the Miele) or does it show fingerprints and smudges? My Miele has the Clean Touch finish on it, which was a selling point. The unit doesn't have the Auto Door Open Drying (only the LaPerla did at the time), but I know more Miele units have that feature now. I never had a drying problem (using the Miele Rinse Aid) expect for some plastic and Tupperware type of items. But I had read before that Bosch units can have an issue drying, and also with odors (again that's something I never experienced with the Miele).

When my Kitchen Remodel was done in 2006, I started off with a GE Profile in the $600 price range, and in the first year it had about 8 service calls. After that I went with an ElectroLux Wave Touch, and it had several issues over 3 months. After that I was without one for almost 2 years before going with the Miele. At the $1300 price that I paid, and the 5 year warranty, $150 install, I'm a bit disappointed the water intake solenoid failed at 7 years and then the circulation motor at 8 years. Granted, if you do the math, it's like $200/year that it cost. But now a similar featured Miele is $1600.

My standards are different than yours, in that I just want a dishwasher that actually gets the dishes clean and will last a long time. I only just got my Asko a few months ago from a local appliance dealer's warehouse sale, so I can't speak to how long it will last. However, it gets the dishes cleaner than any dishwasher I have ever owned. For instance, a knife with peanut butter residue comes out clean, as does an egg crusted skillet.

Good Housekeeping said the Asko is THE most efficient dishwasher on electricity and water usage.

My stainless steel front does not get covered in fingerprints, and I have little kids. It isn't coated, but the texture isn't as slick as usual stainless, so fingerprints don't appear.

Because we got it from an outlet, we were able to afford an Asko, but we got the 5 year extended warranty to cover the higher costs of repairs, should the need arise.

Our model does not have a third rack, but the newer ones have FOUR racks!

I LOVE my dishwasher. That being said, the repairman who came out to fix a minor thing said he would buy a Bosch and had a Bosch. I always ask repairmen what they have and would buy.

I went to one appliance dealer today (the one that I got my Miele from 8 years ago). I told them what happened and that I wanted to look at Bosch, Asko and Miele (in that order).

The 4 Bosch that they had, none were the exact SHEM78WH5N that I was looking for (no water softener) and had the Pocket Door, but he said the racks would be similar. After trying the racks out some, it doesn't look like it's laid out well. I'm sure that there would be some adjustment that I would have to make when changing brands, but the rack design just didn't appeal to me.

I then looked at the 3 Asko on display, two are being discontinued. But one of them had the hidden recessed handle on the front and the cutlery rack on the top, while the other model had the cutlery rack in the middle. The one with the rack on the top made better sense as it wouldn't be in the way and easier to get to. I also think the Asko racks were laid out better than the Bosch and had a smoother operation.

I then looked at the 4 Miele on display, it was the Classic Plus, Crystal, Lumen and Diamond (didn't have the Dimension). All were the SCVI Fully Integrated, which I prefer the Pre-Finished SCU with the visible controls on the front. The rack design on the Miele was the best and had the most adjust ability and versatility. They also moved as smooth as the one I own. But due to the Feb 1st price increase, all models went up $100, so the Crystal is $1600, Dimension is $1700, and Lumen at $1900. But he looked in his system and had 2 of the discontinued Lumen model G6560SCVI for $1350, which is a good price, but then would have to buy the Stainless Door and Handel for it which is $300, so would then be $1650 total for the G6560SCVI with stainless door and handle. Which is more than I would really want to spend, and would be about the same price as the (current) Crystal and Dimension. So at that $1600-1700 price, I'm wondering if it is better to go with the Crystal, Dimension, or discontinued Lumen.

After I left the dealer, I went to the actual Miele Showroom about 30min north.

They have all the models on display, even the Knock to Open, but again everything is integrated panels. But I could get a better look at the Crystal, Dimension and Lumen. I asked them about the discontinued G6560 Lumen, and was told the main difference was that some of racks don't have the yellow silicon spacers to hold the wine glasses, doesn't have the newer heat exchange tank on the side, and no WiFi. Those three differences aren't that major to me. But again, with Miele it's in the $1600-1700 range.

One thing I did find out is that Miele is no longer doing the Delivery and Install themselves. It has returned back to the dealers to install. So because of that the Miele $99 delivery and $200 install, is now a flat $150 for New York Minute to do it (which is the company that was used 8 years ago). I was also told the 2nd year warranty is also valid (but would want to call to double check), and the 5 year extended can still be purchased anytime within the 1st year of ownership.

So after today, I'm still liking Miele best (probably because that's what I've had for the past 8 years), but even at that the Asko and Bosch model I was looking for was not on display, so had to look at "similar" models.

So a bit of an update. The dealer I went to a week ago had said they have a new in box Lumen model G6560SCVI for $1350, but the stainless door and handle is $300 from Miele, making it $1650. More than I can afford.

I was at another dealer about 30min north of me today, again looked at Miele, Bosch and Asko. I know Bosch has a good reputation, but after using a Miele for 8 years, I'm just not liking the Bosch. The racks don't look laid-out well, are more difficult to move in and out, and the top cutlery rack is a poor excuse.

The few Asko models they had there are nicer, but again the model that I was looking at with the Water Softener is $1400.

Lastly I looked at the Miele, and I just think the racks are laid-out better and glide smoother than Bosch.

They did have two floor models they are selling, a Classic (no water softener) for $900, and a Crystal G5105SCU for $1100. That Crystal G5105 is pretty much an equivalent to my current (non-working) Diamante Plus, both look the same on the front, just different bottom rack and the 3D Cutlery rack. I'm going to call Miele next week to find out if I would still have the manufacturer warranty if I bought it, and if it would be eligible for the extended warranty. If it does still qualify for the warranty, then I may contact the dealer and see if we can work on a better price than the $1100 they have it listed as.

I had to replace my 9 year old Miele dishwasher about a year ago. I saved my old racks so I can use both sets if I want. You never know if something happens with the new ones or you like the old better. There are good points about both. I do love my new Miele better because of the 58 min powerwash program that I use the most.

Once you had Miele it will be hard to get anything else.

It's surprising to hear the MIeles aren't lasting even ten years. When I bought the one for the kitchen remodel in my last house part of the reason I paid the premium price was because I kept hearing it would last 20 years. It still worked without any repairs when I moved out after 12 years. Now hearing more and more about a lifespan that isn't any better than a dishwasher half the price it would be a tough sell for me (even if I hadn't had other problems with Miele).

So after doing some research today, it appears that the (new discontinued) Lumen model G6560SCVI that they have two of in-box for $1350 is an ADA Compliant model. So I'm not really sure if it would fit or not, since ADA stuff is made to be lower?

The height of my opening (measured from the floor to the bottom of the counter) is 34.5" (which is US standard), and my current Miele is at a top height of about 34.25".

3katz4me

My 9 year old dishwasher had more then 10000 hours on it. I have had heavy use. Cook and bake alot and lots of house guests. I dont think that is bad at all. An cheaper brand would have been dead along time ago and does not hold as much as the Miele does. There are a youtube video were they compare 2 other brands to a miele and the Miele holds alot more.

But as with most things today even the very top brand do suffer from lesser quality then years before. I had a Miele dishwasher from 1982 that came with my old house and it were replaced due to being an energy hog in 2005 and after takeing it out the hozes were rather dry.

I recently (as in a few days ago) purchased a miele because of everything I've seen and read. I can honestly say I am not disappointed. I had a bosch benchmark in my previous house that I put in with a kitchen remodel, and this house had an 800 in it when we moved in. While the benchmark was fantastic at getting the dishes clean, it did nothing to dry them. My only complaint was the complete lack of drying on anything plastic (we we have a lot of because we have kids). This new miele is a beast, cleaning far better than the 800 it replaced, and as good if not better than the benchmark. That said, IT DRIES! I'm very impressed with it so far. I also really prefer the racks, including the third rack. The third rack is far better because it has it's own spray arm. The only thing I miss about the bosch is the indicator light, but that wasn't exactly a necessary thing.

Eric, which model Miele did you buy, does it have the Auto Door Open at the end of the drying cycle? Mine from 8 years ago does not, but only some plastic items come out a tad damp, but not a big deal since everything is cleaned well.

Fauguy, I got the Dimension Ecoflex. I got mine from AJ madison (no tax, free shipping, and right before the $100 increase) for $1599. It does have the auto-open feature, and everything that isn't placed incorrectly comes out dry as a bone, and as clean as I had hoped for.

Ok thanks. It's too bad Miele did a $100 increase Feb 1 on all their dishwashers. The Crystal, Dimension, Lumen and Diamond all have the Auto Open Door for extra drying.

How did your purchase though AJ Madison to? Delivery or install?

I just did delivery as I find things like installation rather easy. That said there are a few pieces left over that I'm not sure what they do and I posted on this forum for help (but I still don't see my post)... lol

I find the installation instructions rather lacking.

https://www.gardenweb.com/discussions/5141430/miele-dishwasher-not-sure-what-some-of-these-pieces-do  Link to that discussion that can't be found on the forums...

Link not working...Maybe post it again?

Since I've had my Miele pulled out twice, put on it's side, and with the bottom removed for me to access and remove the Circulation Pump; I'm sure I could install a brand new Miele if it were shipped to me.

Fauguy, I think the average person that wasn't afraid could install the Miele. It's easy enough that I would NOT pay to have someone do it.

Since you said you got the Dimension model, is it th one with th visible control on th front or with the controls on the top. If it's the top controls, I believe there is a red led indicator light located next to the left Power button that turns on when running?

Yeah, top controls. That said, there's a little plastic piece that's supposed to be mounted under the counter and I don't see the purpose or how it's supposed to work.

I think that price is to help protect the underside of th counter from heat and steam when the Auto Door opens at th end of the drying cycle. Also the led indicator light reflects better on it.

The big metal piece is meant for non-solid surface counters, and the plastic, I suppose, is supposed to make it more reflective. But the directions say to mount on the opposite side of the indicator light. Like I said, it's easy to install but the directions are serious crap.

Lots of information on here already, not sure how I could chime in here and provide any new information. Couple of things: I would avoid last series floor models, as the racks on the current models are far superior, to me they are worth the increase in cost. Also, if you are in South Florida, where are you living that water softening is needed? Almost all of my clients do not require salt, the municipal water here in Broward (unless your on well water) is usually soft enough for the machine to run without issue. When you turn on the machine it will ask for salt for the first couple days until it finally tests enough loads and realizes it does not need salt. After that, the Salt request goes away.

For me, the new racking system on the Miele is the best available on the market at this time. No other dishwasher comes close. I've had Blomberg, Bosch, Asko, and the previous model Miele. The new Miele racks are really great. I did a video review on the new models when they released last year, if that helps you in your decision at all: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mG6q3mvMKds

Anthony

Appliance Buyer's Guide

Anthony,

I am in Northern Broward. I did two water hardness tests, several years ago and was between 8-11, which is what Ive had my Miele set to. But this past year I've noticed an increase of water deposit residue on bathroom faucets that hadn't happened before.

The Crystal floor model G5105 (with pictures above) does have the newer lower basket, but not the yellow silicone holders for wine glasses that is on the current $1599 model. (I think that may be the only difference?)

I had seen your video before, was that done in a showroom down here? Edit...I see it's right down from the Galleria on Sunrise.

So far I've been to Monark, House of Appliances, and the Miele showroom.

If you're referring to the floor model in your pictures above, that is from 3 generations ago, as its from the 5000 series. It's likely got a build date of 2010-2014. It should have a better discount considering it's age. That does have the previous generation racks on it though. Likely upgraded at some point.

Ok, I saw a PDF that says the G5105 was introduced in 2012 and with a price of $1299, but I'm not sure what the build date of this floor model is. I got the SN and was going to call Miele next week to look it up. But at $1099, I agree it should be more like $750-800.

The other dealer has two discounted (new in box) Lumen G6560SCVI for $1350, but requires the stainless door and handle ($300). From looking that model up, it says it's the ADA model, so I'm not sure if it would not be tall enough to fit in the 34.5" space my current Miele is in. But $1350+$300 and tax is a bit much $, so not sure if I could work his price down some.

The ADA model is really only good if you had large 6"-8" toe kick or a C-Channel (G bar) handleless cabinetry. Cheapest standard height model in SS with built in water softener right now is the Crystal, at $1599. Nice part is the Crystal now comes with the Auto-Open drying which is a feature you don't get on any of the models you were looking at and is one of my favorites. It automatically cracks open the door at the end of the cycle to release any excess steam and condensation.

The G5105 doesn't have the Auto Open dry, but the Lumen G6560SCVI does according to the PDF manual I read through a few days ago. Still, I'd want to give Miele a call about it being an ADA and find out if it would install ok or not in a standard opening.

I have seen the current Crystal and Dimension on display ($1599 and $1699). Both are nice, but just trying to keep the price down, since I wasn't expecting to have to replace my unit since it's only 8 years old and the circulation pump motor went out last month ($700 part).

https://www.ajmadison.com/cgi-bin/ajmadison/G6665SC.html $1599, no tax, free ship. Probably as good as it is going to get. I had the opportunity to buy a lumen for slightly less, but was the futura line and not the ecoflex. I went with the ecoflex because of racks, and the fast wash capabilities.

Eric, since I need Stainless front, and like the visible control and recessed handle, I'd be looking at :

Crystal $1599:
https://www.ajmadison.com/cgi-bin/ajmadison/G6625SCUCLST.html

Dimension $1699:
https://www.ajmadison.com/cgi-bin/ajmadison/G6745SCUCLST.html

The one you linked to was the Crystal, not Dimension. But they are $100 less since they don't come with the stainless door (requiring a custom panel),

Yeah, sorry about the recessed handle. I knew I was linking the crystal. Price just went up $100 on the 3rd.

Also, the one I linked should have given option, both the panel ready and stainless options are same price on crystal.

This was from when I had mine pulled out last month working on it.

@Eric, sorry I did not see your long post above until now. The first metal plate you're referring to is for wood countertops. The plastic piece to the right of it is for when the red light goes off it hits that plastic piece and illuminate so you can see it easily. You can remove it and stick it to the underside of your countertop if you like, although most people don't use it. As far as the gasket and the other metal hook you're referring to you would have to send me a pic, not sure exactly what your referring to.

Anthony

Appliance Buyer's Guide

Thanks Anthony. Will take pics tonight.

Eric: My advice would be to try and start another thread again showing the pictures of the other parts that were left over from the install. But I agree the picture diagram from Miele needs to be improved.

Anthony: I may try to make it down to your showroom one day this week to look around. I guess you have most of the Miele and Akso units on display?

Fauguy, I've tried posting and they aren't working. The discussion shows up under my profile but not in the forums. I've been waiting on response from houzz for 2 days. Like I said, wasn't trying to hijack. Sorry.

Anthony @Kitchenworks

Which models of Miele and Asko do you have on display at your showroom?

I see that Asko is about to have a price increase, and the DBI664IXXLSSOF that is $1399 will go up, but not sure how much. Asko also has a $150 rebate on 40 Series models right now.

It turns out that AJ Madison can sell dishwashers outside of NY, so would have to go with the local seller on it, which is $1400 + tax. But they do sell Miele for delivery.

I bought my Miele dw fron AJM and I live in Missouri. I will say that this dw is the most amazing appliance I have owned and I will only buy Miele DWs from here on. Dishes come out clean and dry. Seriously, CLEAN AND DRY... I'm like a fat kid with cake and ice cream.

Eric,

The Miele that I've been using for 8 years was $1200 back then. Now the current model Crystal is $1600. The only differences are the newer racks and the auto open dry.

The Asko 40 series is $1400, and has a $150 mail in rebate. Plus the extended warranty is $150 (through the dealer) installed of $300 for the Miele Warranty (which we had before).

So overall the Asko wouldn't be as pricy as the Miele. I'm just not sure I like the way the dishes load (side to side) or that the cutlery rack on the top is a lot smaller.

Even though my Miele did well cleaning over the 8 years, before the circulation pump motor went out in Jan, I did have to use the warranty a few times. The racks started to rust about 4 year into using it, and also some rust on the bottom of the stainless door. All those parts were replaced without cost by the Miele tech. What's interesting is that now 8 years later, I can again see some rust on the bottom of the door and on a few spots on the racks.

Stainless steel can rust when exposed to more aggressive chemicals. High salt content is particularly problematic. We live in a coastal area and have some decorative stainless steel outside that always has some amount of rusty spots.

Do you know if there is something unusual about your water quality? If so, you'll probably have the same issue with all models.

It's city water, not sure if there is anything "unusual" about it.

But when we had the kitchen remodel in 2006, we has a Blanco stainless steel sink put in and there's been no rust on it.

The Miele racks are coated, but it looks like where the welding joins are the coating starts to come off, exposing the metal and starts to rust. But the rest of the inside stainless has no rust.

We have the Lumen that we got in 2016. It has been very good overall though I still prefer the rack layout on the Miele that I had at our old house. But the weird thing with it has been that the tines on the cutlery tray are snapping off. We've lost three or four so far with others that are loose. It has the 3D tray. We had our old Miele for 12 or 13 years, ran the super hot sani cycles on it regularly, and never had a tine break. This one, running normal cycle 99% of the time, is deteriorating in only two years of use.