Dancingqueen, It's not a good idea to make your own filo if your grandmother didn't teach you, but there's an easy secret to handling bought filo--buy the right filo! Athens always cracks on me. Fillo Factory brand, however, is delightful to work with.

Ann, great looking bread as always. I didn't see anything in your story to say the bread would fail. Still, great that it came out so well on the grill. Resourceful of you. Beyond my imagination (snow, that is).

AnnT, I agree, it's really hard to screw up bread. It may not be exactly as you expected (like Lpink's), but it's still bread and it's still mostly good. Ingredients for bread are inexpensive and readily available, based on flour/salt/water/yeast.

Like LindaC I've forgotten ingredients, I've gotten distracted and overproofed the dough, I've lost power in the middle of breadmaking, I've had to bake in my Nesco roaster because the oven quit working. It all became bread somehow anyway, although not nearly as pretty as yours!

Like you, I say "just do it". Bread is easy, and forgiving of mistakes.

Annie

Well, I've seen some pretty awful outcomes! Bricks, exploding pillows, baked on the outside and raw in the center, one giant hole in the center. People make a hash of baking bread all the time. That's why I have so much detail in my mother's challah recipe. Even people who know how to bake bread mess it up.

I agree that for people like me--and Ann T., Annie, Lindac, etc.--even the worst disasters are generally salvageable. My own first attempts with whole grain and sourdough starter, documented here, weren't anything lovely, but still bread. A lot of people who didn't grow up baking bread can take the simplest kind and make the worst, inedible mess out of it.

liar liar!

This came out from the bread machine. (Brick machine?)

dcarch

I've never had luck with any bread except beer bread back in the 70s. My hubby is afraid to try cause if he has success, I'll get pissed off!

I told him we could do it together, then if we have success, it will be BOTH of us who did it! ;)

LOL, Nancyjane, and both of you take the fault if it doesn't turn out?

Dcarch, it's not impossible to screw it up, but it's difficult. I don't care for bread machines except to do the hard work of kneading for me, the crust is just kind of steamed, or something, if it bakes, and many don't bake well anyway.

So yeah, you can leave something out, you can overbake, you can underbake, you can let it rise too long or not enough. The basics, though, are still simple: flour/salt/water/yeast. My favorite "no knead" recipe from King Arthur Flour has those four ingredients, stirred together with a wooden spoon and left on the counter for 2 hours, then in the fridge for 2 hours. Shape, rise, bake. You can skip the counter time if you're in a hurry. It's really hard to mess it up. The side might split, or it might have a "tunnel" or it could be a little too dark or a little too crunchy. Those aren't fatal errors, though, and the end result is still remarkably better than the squishy white stuff from the store.

Or you can start adding things or don't pay attention or make something time consuming and fussier, like Plllog's challah. The more ingredients and the "fancier" you get, the greater your chances for failure.

As I've said before, it can be as easy or as difficult as you care to make it. If you stick with flour/water/salt/yeast, it's pretty darned hard to screw it up, and you don't even need a bread machine. Just one bowl, one wooden spoon, a pan or sheet to bake it on and four ingredients. Bake it, break it, butter it, and spend your extra time during the refrigerator rise to make soup.

Annie

I do occasionally have successes too. Hope springs eternal for me and bread. I love it!

ann_t, I have a question please! I'm astounded you baked your bread in a propane grill with such gorgeous results! We just bought a new propane grill, and I'd love to know if you baked it as you would in an oven - watching the temp - did you use a temp gauge inside the grill, peeking to check it? I could kill myself for tossing out our heavy pizza stone this summer... I'm assuming a stone is required to bake in a grill? I have heard of halting proofing with a fridge... I bet that warm bread was a welcome relief to the cold!

I ask because we will have our kitchen gutted for some time, and I could still make the dough, but would need to use the grill to bake.

I had a bread machine after getting tired of the hand kneading - it was not the same. Bricks every time! Under-baked also. Sold it in a garage sale last summer! Got a heavy duty mixer to help in the kneading process - so much easier!

Speaking of hard to mess up...Christmas Eve it has been my custom for many many years to bake sticky cinnamon rolls, for us on Christmas morning and for the neighbors. This year I had a miserable sinus infection and my son, who is a very good cook said he would do it while I took a nap.
When I got up there were 6 pans of lovely cinnamon rolls rising. I complimented him....and he said I did something different this year...I decided to use the brioche method. I looked puzzled....and he told me that as he was rolling out the dough, his wife asked what all that melted butter was doing in the microwave....
so he kneaded it into the dough after the fact.
The rolls were delicious!

2ManyDiversions,

I have a six burner grill and I put the stones, 4 X 7 1/2" stones, in the middle and turned all the burners on high to heat the grill. Temperature was over 600°F when I put the loaves on the stones. I turned the two burners directly under the loaves off and left the two outside burners on high and the next two on medium. Temperature hovered around 500°F. It dropped when I opened the grill to check on the bread but went back up quickly when closed.

Without a kitchen you can still cook most meals on the grill. You can roast over indirect heat, do vegetables, grilled potato slices, cakes, etc....

leahikes, that is quite an oven, I don't think I've ever seen one exactly like that! The bread looks delicious too.

Here I had my own "screw up". The furnace quit while I was mixing up the dough and it went on the counter. The heat went down to 52F before we got the breaker replaced and the furnace going again, but I figured it was going to go in the refrigerator anyway, so it might be OK if the temp in the house rose slowly. I didn't remember exactly where I was in that recipe, or how much flour was in the bowl, and in retrospect I should have just remeasured the flour. I couldn't just dump it back in the container because I "thought" I'd added salt and yeast. I added water and tasted a bit to make sure it had salt and yeast. Salt yes, yeast, no, so I added yeast to a bit more water, stirred it in, shrugged and set it on the counter covered for a couple of hours, then two hours in the fridge. A chunk was formed and set to rise on parchment paper while the cast iron griddle heated in the oven. It came out nicely golden and "singing" to me, so I was happy, and frankly, somewhat surprised!

As usual, I thought "it's just flour, yeast, salt and water, if it's messed up I'm not out much". It's amazing what those four little ingredients can make themselves into...

Annie

I think I found your no-knead recipe Annie, and I'm going to try it. I searched for refrigerated dough on the KA website.

I've got a pizza stone that came with the Cuisinart oven and I might try it on that, on parchment paper.

Jasdip, this is the one, if it helps. This is so easy and it makes really good pizza dough, great garlic bread sticks and it's great toasted with butter for breakfast with my daily egg, over easy.

https://www.kingarthurflour.com/recipes/no-knead-crusty-white-bread-recipe

I don't bother to use a mixer, I just stir it up in a big bowl. I dump everything in together, stir until it's all moistened, add a bit more water sometimes, depending on the flour/etc. Cover it with a clean towel and let it sit on the counter for a couple of hours, cover with plastic wrap and refrigerate it. I'll usually bake about a third of it right after the two hour refrigeration time, and leave the rest in the fridge until I need it. It's been there as long as a week, and still turns out fine. I have also switched containers to allow for better usage of space, I have a tall Tupperware container that was meant for saltine crackers, it works perfectly for the remaining 2/3 of the batch, plus has a lid.

I use a cast iron griddle to bake on, I broke the pizza stone. I let the griddle heat up while I'm preheating the oven and the bread is rising. I sometimes remember to put a broiler pan on the lower shelf, sometimes not, but the crust is nicer when I do. I just let the dough rise on the parchment, then pick up the parchment and move it onto the griddle without trying to remove the parchment. Pour a cup of hot water into the hot broiler pan and close the door. Half an hour later, it's nice and crusty and "singing". If I forget the water or I don't bother, it's still nice, but doesn't "sing" to me, and the crust isn't as chewy.

Good luck, this is dead easy and darned good and extremely forgiving. You'll never buy one of those expensive artisan loaves again without thinking about this!

Annie

My mother baked all our bread. Then my younger sister started making bread from an Italian cookbook that promoted long, slow rises to develop more flavor. She said the long and slow rise made a big difference.

Sheilajoyce, I would agree with your sister. A longer cold fermentation and a slow rise makes a big difference to flavour and crumb.

Impressive use of the grill. We had our first 8 hour power outage last month that kicked our Winter storm prep into gear. Now the winds are just picking up and snow has started. (wind is the worst as power lines come down like silly string)

I've got a boule in the oven now. If we loose power I still have the gas cooktop and a dozen soups in the freezer to choose from. As well as various bread/cornbread I can cast iron skillet toast. Grilled cheese etc.

DH wants a new gas cooktop I keep vetoing...need to make sure it will be usable during a power outage...note to self.

Ann, are you still using the Forkish 'pinch' ?

It has definitely enhanced our bread skills to near foolproof. I can't recall a failure in many years.

For those struggling, do watch his videos that pair up with his book. Such a simple no kneeding method. Just a bowl and a hand and a timer. Just ten minutes of time. Spread out of course but easy while doing/prepping other things as Annie pointed out.

He has about 15 short videos. A bit rough in sound and editing but gets the point across for easy home baking. LINK

Sleenendog, yes I am. I use the stretch and fold method and a stretch it out over a 2 to 3 hour period. And usually I refrigerate the dough for two to 4 or 5 days.

sleevendog, thank you for posting the Link. I've been away from artisan breads far too long since married and my baking time more consumed with whole wheat breads for daily use, the occasional hokkaido, cinnamon rolls, pizza's, and cheese/herb but still not truly artisan. I miss it! I see Ken's a fan of autolyse - doing that as I type with pizza dough. I will try anything to improve flavor and/or texture. I think I had done the stretch and fold method for baguettes a few years ago (which I'm not sure is traditional, but my results were lovely).

I wonder if I could use a cast iron skillet in our propane grill for bread? I use one for pizza since I got rid of the stone (still angry I did that!).

You all have inspired me to to get back into artisanal breads again, and trying our grill!

2Many, I use (unglazed clay) quarry tiles on the grill. Those clay colored ones; they're either 6x6 or 8x8 inches...can't remember which. They're quite inexpensive and available at most any home improvement store. Much less expensive than a pizza stone, they stack and store easily and have been quite durable. Have broken a couple of baking stones; have yet to break a quarry tile. Always use parchment paper...slide the pizza on the parchment off the peel onto the stones. The parchment not covered with food will get pretty charred but the paper under the pizza doesn't.

ci_lantro, thank you so much!

I bought these smaller 7 1/2" pizza stones, four in a box. Bought two boxes and I use them to line my grill when I'm baking bread or pizza.

PizzaCraft Squares

^^ I saw those also at home depot online when I was looking up the unglazed quarry tiles - may go with them as the quarry tiles here are only sold by the case.

The tiles I'm talking about are 59 cents apiece at Menard's. Menard's sells them by the each; don't have to buy a case.

https://www.menards.com/main/flooring-rugs/tile-stone/quarry-tile/versatile-reg-6-x-6-quarry-floor-and-wall-tile/p-1444436132424.htm

Thanks ci_lantro. We don't have a Menard's within 100 miles, sadly.

I was afraid to that, 2Many. Menard's is a regional chain in the mostly upper Midwest US. Great store with a huge selection of merchandise and I live in a smallish town.

Do you have any chain type home improvement or flooring stores in your area other than Home Depot and Lowe's? If so, I would check there for unglazed tiles. I think the VersaTile is a Menard's exclusive so you probably won't find that brand.

No, no other chain type other than Home Depot and Lowe's... (you are so fortunate!) I think I might wait until this summer (when they have more stock) and check both for individual tiles - sometimes they have them but don't advertise it online. I think the individual tiles you suggested would really be best as they'd take up less storage space when not in use. I kept our big pizza stone (before getting rid of it) in the bottom of the oven and it got horribly messy from spillovers. I did find tiles very much like you mentioned (non glazed, etc.) in cases... keeping fingers crossed... and still kicking myself!

Meanwhile, the cast iron skillet for pizzas.. I can hold off on my artisan breads for a while.

Oh. WOW. I just cut into one of four loaves of plain old white bread I'd let proof in the refrigerator last night... the flavor is unreal!

I've always baked my bread (wheat, white, challah, etc.) right away... but had read proofing in the fridge overnight improves flavor. I do that with pizza dough (usually 3 days), and cinnamon rolls (overnight) but have never tried it with any other 'regular' breads. What a huge difference! Bread looks the same, but wowzer, the flavor is much enhanced! I was just too tired to let it proof and bake last night and had room in the fridge for once... set it out to finish rising a bit/warm up this morning, and baked as usual... WOW.

2ManyDiversions, the longer cold fermentation really does enhance the flavour and the "crumb" of the bread.

I started three 500g flour batches this morning all at 72 % hydration. I did the stretch and folds over a 5 hour period starting at 4:30 this morning. They went directly into the fridge after the last fold. I don't proof in the fridge. I will bake over the next three days. Will take a batch out and let it warm up before shaping and proofing.

ann_t, I've been baking bread for more 'decades' than I care to share, so I was initially embarrassed to ask... but this 'older' dog could always learn new tricks, so here's my question: When you say you don't proof in the fridge (and you'll bake over the next 3 days), how do you prevent this? My breads, even higher hydration breads (though those are rarer now due to time constraints) rise in the fridge! Sorry if I'm misunderstanding you.

Your fridge may not be cold enough, or placing your dough in the front it will take longer to reach fridge temp....it will be active until it hits that temp, 34-35 is good. It then goes into a very slow, very minor activity. Or use a fridge thermometer to find the coldest spot. All are different but my sweet spot is on the shelf above the crisper in the back right side for good cool air flow.

Also if it has been left out to start getting 'active', it is well on its way and will continue while in the fridge getting to that cooler temp. Either get it cool right after mixing or after the first rise, deflate before the fridge. I put mine in a knotted bread bag with some air to allow for minor expanding.

I prefer to fridge before it is allowed to get active but Sundays boule had allowed to rise, baked one, then had the time to bake the second. The second would have gone into the fridge fine if we ran out of time.

Curious to know Ann's method.

Thank you sleevendog, sounds like I really need a fridge thermometer. Honestly, many of my veggies and meats freeze in my fridge (in the drawers and oh I hate ruined greens) but I think I'm have colder and warmer areas (old fridge, replacing it during reno). My pizza dough coming from the freezer is on it's 3rd day in the fridge and is proofing through it's wrap... yep, too warm in that area of fridge at least.

it will be active until it hits that temp, 34-35 is good - see, I always can learn something! Thanks!

ann_t? Your method? :-)

2ManyDiversions. I think it is just a matter of terminology. My dough does rise in the fridge, but I just call that step a bulk cold fermentation rise. Sometimes over a few days I will have to knock it down because it will continue, although more slowly to rise.

I only use the word "proof" after the dough has gone through a rise or two, either same day or over a period of days in the fridge, and the loaves have been shaped and and will be ready to bake as soon as they have finished proofing.

I know many that will actually proof their bread in the fridge overnight. The dough has already risen, and then been shaped, covered and put back in the fridge over night. And in the morning it sits on the counter while the oven heats and then goes right into the oven. This is what I thought you were referring to when you mentioned proofing in the fridge.

Thank you for explaining!

Yes, I'm resurrecting an older thread : ) But it's appropriate I think. When I searched for it I typed in the exact title, so engraved in my mind. Was it so long ago that I saw this, and thought who is this extraordinary person who baked bread in a grill? I was actually very nervous to chime in with questions, being such a newbie to the forum. Since, the Bread Goddess has mentored me well, patient and kind, and I'll always be grateful to you Ann.

So, not long ago I found some artisan dough in the freezer. Been too long (remodeling, no kitchen) since I made bread, and I made horrid mistakes. Let baguettes rise on the pizza stone! Then put them into a cold oven. I know I know. Dumb. Blobs of under-baked, stuck-on dough. Blame it on multitasking, forgetfulness, and just being too tired.

So, Friday I baked plain white bread. Plunked the dough into the pans rather sloppily, but the dough was just right. You bread bakers understand; when you have the dough just right, and you know it. It's exciting to me! While it was baking I decided to make another batch of Ann T's artisan dough. After the 6th autolyze and fold I could not stop myself and pulled off enough for 2 small baguettes. No cold fermentation. Multitasking again, but I put the proofed, then shaped dough on parchment. Pre-heated the CSO with the stone in it. Patted myself on the back for finally thinking. Beautiful rise and shape. As I gently lifted it off to put on the stone, I realized some idiot didn't put flour under the proofing baguettes. I pulled off one end, then the other (well-stuck to the parchment), and the middle just fell... sagging and stretching to about 1-1/2 feet. Deflated dough, misshapen. Frustrated. I balled it up and tossed it back onto the parchment. Defeated and embarrassed. My mind wandered, then I looked at the two wads of dough, and thought, why not? So I pulled them taut into boules. Did not think of another rise (due to frustration and time running out). I sprayed them with a light mist of water, slashed with... Where's my lame? Still packed. Ran to get a glass scraper razor, washed the mechanical oil off, carefully. Slashed, badly. Into the oven. And it happened. Bread magic. It rose!

Just beautiful, 2Many! Being fairly yeast bread challenged, I'm always impressed when I see lovely loaves like yours.

Aw. Thank you so much chloebud. You're so kind : )

Got a baggie of bread dough warming on the counter after spending yesterday and last night in the fridge....
Security is always having a baggie of dough in the refrigerator!

"Security is always having a baggie of dough in the refrigerator!"

True that : ) And another baggie or three in the freezer.

Wow! Just........wow!

Bring me some of your chicken, and I'll share, Jasdip ; )

About pizza stones and the gunk that builds up on them: several years ago we accidentally left our pizza stone in the oven when we ran the 'self-clean' cycle. All of the stains were burned off of the stone. Completely gone. Now we do that intentionally whenever we run the self-clean cycle.

2many, that bread looks pretty close to perfect to me!

I also think it's hard to screw up bread, it's very forgiving. It can be as simple as flour/water/salt/yeast or as difficult as you wish to make it, but somehow it tolerates a lot of mishandling and still comes out bread.

A slice of that toasted would be really good for breakfast, I think.

Annie

Well I just screwed up the baggie of dough that was rising.....shaped and then let it over rise.....and it collapsed a little bit. I could have re-worked it and reshaped it, but it already had an egg wash and sesame seeds on it...
but it will taste fine...just make more oval slices.

Linda, I've been attempting sesame seeds on my breads, but the stupid things fall off when I slice it. The seeds either end up on the cutting board and especially inside the bag.

I wipe it with wet hands.....very gently so not to deflate, then sprinkle the seeds on. I did deflate one loaf a bit on the weekend, but it recovered in the oven. What is the secret to keeping the sesame seeds on??

Egg wash.....

cindy_7 ,thank you for sharing that - who'd have thunk it? I've got a big one that could use cleaning.

Thank you, Annie : ) I know you've surely made more bread than me, but I'm gonna catch up! LOL!

Oh, Linda, I'm sorry, but I've a feeling it was good, right?! My bread above had rice flour on top, and I just mushed it all together, ha!

Jasdip, as Linda said, egg wash. I use a whole egg for breads where I want a really browned crust. But mostly I'll whip 1 egg white with a Tablespoon of water, until thoroughly combined, and brush it on (with one of those bristle pastry brushes, though I've been known to use my fingers!), then sprinkle on sesame or poppy seeds, or both - then into the oven. The egg white acts like a kind of glue. Not a good glue, like epoxy, which would hold all the seeds when you store and cut the bread, but more like Elmer's glue, which would hold the seeds fairly well, but you'll still loose some. The water is to make it light enough to brush on. Also, the egg white will give you a shine on your crust. Mixed with water, not as much though. Want more shine, don't add the Tbs of water.

Wait, did I just use epoxy and Elmer's glue when talking about bread? Oh my. I'm so ready to stop remodeling.

Wait, did I just use epoxy and Elmer's glue when talking about bread? Oh my. I'm so ready to stop remodeling.

LOL. Busted!!!

I'm so afraid of deflating my bread by brushing it with anything which is why I used a spray bottle with water. I'll definitely try it using your egg wash 2MD. Thanks for details.

2MD, they are perfection - with a good height and a beautiful open crumb!

I haven't baked bread since last winter, trying to avoid carbs. However, your boules are about to supersede my efforts.

Sol

Sols, your kind to say that - but scroll up and look at Ann T's bread (I see it every time I open this thread). Now, that's perfection! If you do bake, any bread, would you post it? I ask because I make the assumption it would somehow be either delicate and oh-so pretty or very cleverly funny - that's how I see you past creations : )

AnnT... that's exactly what I did this time!!!!! I thought to myself, how would Ann do this? Unlike my first embarrassing attempt, ha ha. I hope if anyone else has a CSO, they read this as it's useful information. The CSO booklet does not say to do that. But still, I should have known.