Are you forming the dough into a ball as suggested by the authors? You want to pull and stretch the dough down underneath to form a taught "skin" on the outer surface of the dough ball. By pinching the dough that you have pulled to the under side, you keep it from spreading out too much.

Just as an experiment, I plan to put some of this dough into a greased metal pan and/or greased silicon loaf pan just to see what happens!

Teresa

When making the dinner rolls, you put them into an 8 or 9 inch pan. I oil the pan and the rolls dont stick. Maybe you are interested in trying some rolls with your dough.

It sounds like maybe your dough is a little to wet. In my last batch I cut down on the water. My bread did seem to rise more. Just my opnion.

Linnea56, I had the same problem as you. I haven't tried a second batch yet. I tried leaving the last dough out for two hours to make sure it wasn't too cold and that one wasn't even edible. Just wanted to let you know that you aren't alone. LOL

Ok... I just bought the book and haven't made anything yet. But these problems I've been reading about lead me to wonder how wet is your dough? And have you made bread the traditional way before?

Bread is a feel thing. So, for those who succeed, can you describe the wetness of your dough when you first mix it and after it has been refrigerated? I'm thinking maybe some people have too wet of a mix. But, with this method and just starting, how do you know what is too wet and what is too dry?

Earlier tonight I was reading one of the many bread blogs on the internet.
Someone else who had make the 5MAB was having trouble also. One of the bloggers explained how bread needs to have a tight cloak(sp) wrapped around the loaf in order for it to have a good rise.

You could probably go to the 5MAB website and ask about the problem of having dough that doesnt rise.

Now the question of how to know if it is to wet or to dry....to me it is a feel thing. It is difficult to explain what is to wet and to dry. The dough is difficult to work with the first day. Works better forming this dough when it is colder.

If you follow the recipe, being sure to use exact measurements, you should be Ok. But then again maybe not. Someone else with more experience may chime in........

To answer your question Trsinc, no I haven't made traditional bread yet. I have only used a bread machine. My dough was really really wet. After the first attempt Trudy pointed me to a video so I used a lot more flour and got it almost to a ball the second time but it just spread out and went flat and wide. The 3rd attempt I left it on the counter for a long time and I had the same problem except it rose in the oven but was just about hollow inside.

My Mom was laughing at me. She said why are you doing this when you have that nice bread machine that makes such wonderful bread? I was agreeing with her after the last one. LOL

I'll probably try it again one of these days.

Well, all this is interesting. I guess I'll follow the recipe exact the first time I make it. I'm just imagining a soupy dough, turning out results like the OP suggested.

I know it's hard for regular bakers to adjust to this method. I'm thinking it may be hard for beginners too. I'll post back when I've had a few trials. Texture!!!! is so hard to put into words.

I have not made bread from scratch before, only used frozen dough. But I remember well how that felt. The 5MAB dough (in the raw state) is not only wetter but spongier. I did stretch the dough around from the top to tuck under the sides to make the ball but maybe I did not do it thoroughly enough. I was afraid of overworking it, so stopped as soon as I had a neat ball. The first time it took only about 5-6 pulls/tucks, today it took more: the dough seemed to sag and almost ooze through my fingers while trying to form it. My finished baked bread was just 2 inches high both times.

What kind of flour are you using? Sounds to me like the gluten isn't developed enough...or there isn't enough in the flour to develop....also sounds like you need a bit more flour in the dough.
Linda C

I pulled out my book and it says that if the dough is doing as you describe, it is too wet. ??? Do you think that is a possibility? The first dough I made, following the directions was too dry. I will be so glad when I am experienced enough to know exactly what dough is supposed to feel like and how to correct problems instinctively.

Carol

I'm sure it's that the dough is too wet. On my last attempt at one of the recipes, I added extra water. The first loaf I baked from that batch was terrific--very open crumb, not as dense as previous ones. But the next two loaves were really spready and didn't rise much at all. The dough actually seemed to get wetter as it aged in the fridge. Both loaves tasted fantastic, so I got over my disappointment pretty fast, but it would be good to get that great crumb and still have them rise beautifully.

It's also a lot harder to shape and cloak the loaf when the dough's such a wet mess.

I am wondering if some of you should try the "Vermont Cheddar Cheese Bread" page 106 in the book. Just my opinion but this bread, the dough seems easier to work with. The dough even rises a little more and has a softer texture when baked.
When I made this dough, by accident I dissolved the yeast and sugar in the water. I guess it is just what I am used to doing. There was a nice foam on top of the bowl. Maybe this is something that should be done even though it doesnt say it in the book.

I wonder what this bread would be like without the cheese in it. Maybe more like white sandwich bread.

Tonight we are having Cheddar cheese bread sandwiches made with honey ham from the deli....one of my favs:)

Give it a try and let me know what you think.

Trudy, I made the light wheat today and it is sitting in the fridge doing its thing, but I love cheese bread and I'll try that one next. I made the herb bread last week and it was really good.

Carol

LindaC, The recipe called for all purpose flour, not bread flour, so I donÂt know how much gluten development is possible.

I measured everything very carefully, including the water, so if it is too wet, how am I supposed to tell??? The website says over and over that it is a wetter dough than "regular" dough that you knead. On the good side, both loaves were delicious on the inside. Density and texture inside looked good to me. But the spreading out meant the ratio of crust to bread was a little too high. Both crusts were a bit too hard as well so maybe IÂll skip the steaming water next time. Quite and effort to slice and chew.

Different AP flours are different....
Try it with something like King Arthur bread flour....

Ok, let me see if I can do a bit of describing the dough. When you first mix it, remember they say it should have a sort of shaggy look and you should have to work a bit to stir at the end to get all of the flour moist. It does sound like it was too wet. So, while it is wetter than traditionally kneaded doughs it's not too loose. I'd say start with an additional half cup of flour and see how it looks. Also when you go to get the first dough out, notice how they throw quite a bit of flour on top of the dough so it won't stick to your hands. That extra flour stays in the dough for the next time. It doesn't get mixed in, the dough itself will hydrate that extra flour. Also, in some of the videos/recipes it mentions when you shape/pull the dough into it's ball that it shouldn't take more than about 30 seconds. I think many don't do it long enough. Don't worry about pulling it into shape.

I hope this helps a bit. Just remember, if when you go to mix it at the beginning, if it mixes fairly easy, it's probably too wet. Add a little more flour at that point if it is. I use a very heavy wooden spoon to mix mine and it takes a bit of strength at the end to get most of the last flour mixed in.

One other thought. What are you mixing it in? I am using an old pretty much straight sided plastic gallon and a half sherbert container. I have marked on the side with magic marker when I first mix it, then measure up and mark what would be double. Just make sure you let it rise to most [ or all] of double that first time before making the loaf or refridgerating it. Note how long that takes in your kitchen for future reference.

Thanks, coconut. That helped me some. I used my cheapy mixer and finished with my hands. It was a very sticky dough. I chose to make the European Peasant Bread for the first try.

Then I refrigerated it, covered in saran wrap with gaps on the side (they say don't make it air tight). I did this on Sunday and made my first loaf last night. But, the dough (in the container) had dry tough spots around the edges that I had to remove and throw out. I've since made it air tight. When I formed the loaf it had the texture of a down pillow and was not sticky at all. And I used lots of flour when cloaking.

The loaf came out great. After cloaking, it spread sideways a little at first and then rose a little in the middle. Not much though, it was no where near double. This took 4 1/2 hours. I waited until it was just a little bit cool to the touch before scoring and baking. At first it was very cold to the touch. My kitchen and home was at 70 degrees all day. I think I should have waited a little longer but it was getting late. The loaf had just a hint of gummy texture in the very center, but not enough really worry about.

It had not risen much when I put it in the oven but it rose a lot once it was in. Doubled in height. You could literally look away from the bread for 30 seconds -look back- and see the difference. It "sprang" that fast.

I'm guessing that letting it warm up for so long helped. That, or the fact that it dried out some due to the gaps in the saran wrap. Also it had a mix of white, rye and wheat. So... ???

Do you all have little rising and lots of oven spring? And do you put your bread in the oven when it is still really cold?

We liked it. The flavor was really good. I wouldn't call this 'easy' compared to regular bread baking - just because it's a different method and I worried over it a bit, lol. BUT it's way easier than making a starter, feeding the starter, etc. And faster too - with a similar flavor. At this point I think I'll keep doing it for a while. Unless it starts to drive me crazy with problems.

linnea, the book says to work in more flour if it's too wet, so have you tried that yet? I guess they mean work it into the whole batch. Not each individual loaf...

When I mixed the dough in the first place I did it with a spoon, then moved to using my hands. But it was not that hard to work all the flour in. I make scones or shortbread where it is much harder. So thatÂs probably part of the problem. It hardly rose at all for the 2 hours the recipe said to leave it out. Just kind of foamy. It was bedtime then and I put it in the refrigerator. The next morning I checked and it had risen a lot in the bowl: still not double though.

For my third loaf I worked in more flour, actually kneaded it maybe 10 times, and then did the cloaking/stretching all around the loaf 3 times as much as "normal" in the videos. My house is always cold (unless itÂs summerÂwhen I wouldnÂt be baking bread!). It rested outside 2 hours doing nothing but spreading sideways. When I preheated the oven I put it right on front of where the oven vents. THEN I saw some rising, but nothing like doubling. It got a little dry on one side which might have stopped it from rising further there. In the oven it rose some more; total height in center just under 3 inches. Flavor and texture was good but crust was still way too hard.

My husband mentioned his grandma used to keep dough in a cold room, not refrigerated. Not sure if it was because she didnÂt have a refrigerator, or because it worked better/took less time to rise. Our house is usually 65 F daytime, but our pantry/mudroom is ~55 F. Maybe IÂll try putting the last of the dough in thereÂ.but will it spoil?