I think you're right Rob in describing the danger for many users of glancing at the display. For me, I've been using GPS for so long that a glance at the large displays I have (maybe 3 x the size of a phone) is less distracting than glancing at the speedometer.

Chisue yes, lots of miles were driven before GPS. Lots of people also got lost in unfamiliar places and made abrupt turns and lane changes, or even stopped on roads, when trying to find their way. Like so many things that modern technology has improved, I wouldn't want to go back in time.

I'm with you, Rob. I listen to my phone GPS and keep it in the cup holder as well. I think the built-in screens are a distraction.

I really don't use my phone as a phone, but I do have a Bluetooth earphone and my AirPods which can also be used to talk on the phone with. Where my Bluetooth is, I have no idea but the charger is beside me.......... I find when I do talk on the phone with my Bluetooth on, I am not as focused on the road as I should be. Yet I can talk to someone beside me and drive fine. So I prefer my phone go to voice mail then I call back the caller when I get home. I'm also one of those people who never use my phone in the store unless it's to call someone to say, "hey! They don't have what you want, what else can I get you?", never to say, "so..........whatcha up to?" lol

I made the mistake of being on the back roads behind the high school as school let out. It's a narrow country road anyway, and I see a car coming at me, crossing into my lane, so I lean on the horn. It's a teen texting while driving. He looks up, swerves back into his own land and proceeds to keep texting! Now wouldn't a normal person realize how close he came to getting creamed and stop the texting at least for a minute or two to digest what happened? But of course teens are not normal people...they're teens.

PLEASE let's keep texting and talking on the phone hands-free from being the same conversation! One need not take ones eyes off the road at all to use hands-free on most cars - there is a button on my steering wheel and all I do is push it and say "Call John Smith's mobile" and it does the rest. With my car-installed Navigation, I tell it the address - did this just this AM when I had to take my dog to a specialty vet's office in a different part of town. There is a map on a screen the size of a small iPad that I can glance at - it is not different than looking at the speedometer.

As for most people think they are above average drivers, well, I guess they may well be as they may not have had any accidents in many, many years. Some people are better drivers than others! I have friends who I prefer never to ride with - I"ll always suggest we take MY car, and this is not just since I've gotten old (with one friend it is). I've been driving since I got my permit at age 14 in KS - so that's 60 years. I've driven in the UK multiple times. In all that time, I've had about 5 accidents, all of which the police and insurance companies declared were the fault of the OTHER driver.

My DGS1 got his permit back in April. He's scheduled to take his driving test for his "Provisional License) on Dec 11. I'm not sure he will pass. He has tons of highway driving experience and is pretty good on the interstate, but his around town driving still leaves much to be desired. I'm very surprised as he has both small and large motor skills that are WAY above average - he intends to play a sport in college. And he's very, very bright. But driving has not come naturally to him. No, he will NOT be taking a car with him to college!

chi, do you mean it's safer to look at maps and printed directions than any other method? I hope not! Looking down is distracted driving. Regardless of the tool distracting you. I hated pulling over and reading the directions. So much slower. Safe, but slow.

.

It's so much easier to have my "copilot" telling me what I should be looking for. Even if it does get it wrong. I was in the parking lot of the place I'd been searching on Sunday, and the GPS was telling me to make a U-turn. Son and I just looked at each other and laughed! Um, we're here maps, so off you go now.

No, rob, I meant that looking at anything other than the road is distracting. I think that listening to GPS is the only safe navigation alternative.

I don't know how people can compare looking at a map to a speedometer. A speedometer is a (hopefully) 2 digit number almost directly in the line of vision. Gps has maps, locations, written directions. You look at the next direction which includes a left or right, the name of the street, and the distance to the action. It's far more reading and it's not in line of sight as much as the speedometer.

You may *think* you are somehow superior to the people who failed driving tests while talking on a cell phone, hands-free. hahaha

OK, let's give you that, untrue as it is. Let's focus on 'the other guy' who is having a conversation while driving.

If you don't know where you are going, you are not 'glancing' at the GPS as you 'glance' in your mirrors. You are engaging your eyes and your mind *away from* the road ahead of you. Tests prove this.

Did you also fight seat belt laws? Do you think you -- or the other guy -- can have a couple of drinks and drive 'just fine'?

It is not an exaggeration to say that the use of these petty conveniences is causing accidents that kill and maim. It's steadily getting worse.

Good grief! We've gone from perfectly legal hands-free talking on the phone, to Navigation, which is built-in in many cars, to using seat belts and DWI? That's a bit of a leap, don't you think? If using a phone hands-free becomes against the law, I won't do it. I don't see Navigation going away or being outlawed. Since most give verbal instructions, one only glances at it to see how far the next turn is, and yes, it is a very quick glance as one would do in a rear view mirror. It's not down on the seat, it's not small - mine is on a huge screen. I HAVE seen people trying to read directions or a map while driving and that IS unsafe!

I used seat belts long before they were mandatory and ones car made beeps if they were not being used, and I can't imagine anyone thinking that DWI is fine. I will have one glass of wine with a meal and drive home a couple of hours later, but as I've aged, that's it for me as my tolerance for alcohol has changed with age. For the average person, two drinks and then drive IS legal in this country, even if not is some countries in Europe. If they ban it here, I'll forego my one glass of wine.

Please stop the assumptions and exaggerations. You have your opinions and you're entitled to them, but you need not make outrageous accusations.

PLEASE let's keep texting and talking on the phone hands-free from being the same conversation!

All of it is distracted driving andall of it is dangerous. It has a lot less to do with whether one's hands are on the wheel and a whole lot more to do with where the brain is focused. If the brain is focused on conversation, it can't process all the visual and other information. Using a cell while driving is the equivalent of drunk driving, regardless of if it's hands free or not. Texting while driving is worse, and worse still is voice to text.

If using a phone hands-free becomes against the law, I won't do it.

The fact that talking hands-free is not illegal won't matter if you're in an accident and you or someone else is severely injured or killed.

Annie, the page you linked to says "hands free isn't risk free". The same can be said about driving, it isn't risk free either.

I got my first hands free car phone in 1984. Yes, no typo. I'm experienced with it and using a GPS and for me neither is distracting. I've seen some people walking in grocery stores with a phone and walk into displays and shelves. Yes, mostly women, so I know for others it's possibly a different story. Maybe there should be a special test and licensing?

If hands-free phone use is as horribly dangerous as you say, Annie, then one certainly wonders why on earth practically all cars are equipped with it today, and insurance rates are not higher for such. If you're uncomfortable driving and talking, then don't, but for many of us, it's just not a problem. I think the insurance industry gets the last word on this one.

My car has built in GPS in a screen that is on the dash to the right. It also displays simultaneously where the speedometer usually is, but I turn that display off and use only the other screen (as I need the digital speedometer displayed). I put in the address before I leave home and it talks me through the directions. But it also has a side display that shows how far to the next turn and which direction I'll be turning. I do glance at it once in a while, just to get an idea where I'll be heading. And it literally takes no longer or is more distracting than glancing at my speedometer. I've never figured out the GPS on my iphone, as I've never needed it.

I will sometimes talk on the phone hands free when I am on the freeway, stuck in traffic or sailing on the open road. My attention is always on the road and sometimes, if something is happening that needs my extra full attention, I just pause all conversation and concentrate on the road. Recently, I was 2nd car behind a car on the freeway whose hood flew up/open, effectively blinding the driver. The car ahead of me didn't see it as quickly as I did, I started pumping my brakes to alert those behind me, because I knew there was going to either be a huge wreck or the blinded driver was going to try to pull over (also a potential for a big wreck). Finally the driver ahead of me saw the problem and swerved to miss the problem car, which was now trying to pull to the side. Other cars were blowing by us, oblivious to the problem until they were almost hit by the car trying to get to the side. It was so scary. I was on the phone at the time and simply quit talking.

If I am in a confusing situation, where I have to make a turn or some other action on the road and am talking hands-free, I simply say, I'll call you back, bye. I don't hang up because that takes my eyes from the road, but usually the other party will hang up and disconnect the call. I just stop talking. It's pretty simple. Am I over confident? I don't think so. I do feel confident tho' that I know what my limitations and strengths are. No accidents ever that have been my fault or avoidable.

...but for many of us, it's just not a problem...

From the national safety council:

Most people can recognize
when they are visually or mechanically distracted
and seek to disengage from these activities as
quickly as possible. However, people typically do not
realize when they are cognitively distracted, such as
taking part in a phone conversation; therefore, the
risk lasts much, much longer. This likely explains
why researchers have not been able to find a safety
benefit to hands-free phone conversations.

The National Safety Council has compiled more than
30 research studies and reports by scientists around
the world that used a variety of research methods,
to compare driver performance with handheld and
hands-free phones. All of these studies show handsfree
phones offer no safety benefit when driving
(Appendix A). Conversation occurs on both handheld
and hands-free phones. The cognitive distraction
from paying attention to conversation – from listening
and responding to a disembodied voice –
contributes to numerous driving impairments...

The well-documented article linked above does a good job of laying out the issues with cognitive distraction, how the brain can't multitask, how much time it takes to switch the brain from one activity to the other, inattention blindness where the brain literally can't register what it sees, like a red light or a pedestrian in the road, etc.

Moreover, our brains don't know what they don't know. In other words, we are unaware of the information loss from distraction as the brain doesn't know what it missed:

Furthermore, due to how our brains filter information,
as discussed earlier, we are never aware of the
information that was filtered out. This may add
to the lack of awareness of our limitations. Some
researchers have studied whether distracted
drivers are aware of their decrease in safe driving
performance. Findings show distracted drivers may
not be aware of the effects of cognitive distraction70
and using cell phones while they are driving.71-74
Also, drivers perceived they were safer drivers when
using hands-free phones, but actually showed
decreased performance while using hands-free
phones.75 One study found drivers who thought
the task was easy tended to perform the worst.76

[emphasis mine]

Their conclusion: Driving while talking on cell phones – handheld and
hands-free – increases risk of injury and property
damage crashes fourfold.

You're an adult. You can make whatever risk calculation you want. I would prefer that all drivers make that choice being well informed of the risk for everyone's sake. The odds are you aren't more capable at distracted driving than anyone else even though you may think you are, that you are increasing your risk of accident by 4 fold, that the presence of laws or insurance policies aren't going to protect you from that increased risk, and the life you take may not just be your own.

Re insurance policies, just because it isn't explicit doesn't mean it's not happening:

Since 2011, the average insurance premium has jumped 16 percent to $926. Insurance companies say the sharp spike is partly caused by more drivers distracted on their smartphones and getting into accidents.

More than 40,000 people died on the road last year — up 14 percent since 2014 — the sharpest rise in 53 years. And distraction-related deaths were up almost 9 percent in 2015, according to data from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.

yes i find hands free talking manageable. use it often.

if your car is equipped with the feature its better than holding your phone and hand dialing the number.

before i had that feature i hated talking on the phone since i had to hold it. i just let it go voicemail. i never text, that to me is SO dangerous. not on FB so don't have to check the feed every minute like so many do.

i do notice that traffic doesn't move as it should b/c people are always looking down at their phone, which makes me bonkers. i see it a lot when i am behind the idiot who is looking at their phone & of course i am blowing my horn!!

Hmm, sounds like some might be more comfortable going back to the horse and buggy! Mackinac Island comes to mind although they do have cell phones there and may be a distraction when working the reins...... but maybe if you worked at it, you could get those banned too. :-)

marylmi, make fun if you wish, but remember, science doesn't care whether you believe in it or not.

The above posts of sprtphntc7A and olychick have me livid! How dare they ignore all the studies and warnings of the dangers of distracted driving, be it hands free or otherwise. So far, you have just been lucky. I sincerely hope your luck holds out and you aren't involved in an accident that injures or kills yourself or a loved one. Worse yet, injures or kills me or my loved ones.

A most disturbing, all too realistic psa on distracted driving from the UK.

Annie., I wasn't making fun. It was just an attempt at a solution. Otherwise how would you police every single car on the highway.

marylmi, you can't. Any more than you can police every single car for drunk driving or even who is driving while drowsy. However, with awareness, you can change people's behavior. MADD has been very successful in raising awareness around drunk driving, and we need to do the same with distracted driving...perhaps maybe more so because I'm sure there are people who would never even consider getting behind the wheel drunk, but who talk or text behind the wheel on a regular basis without realizing the risks are the same.

My concern is drunk driving. Its too bad that a device hasn't been installed on every vehicle where your breath was tested and it wouldn't start otherwise. Too many people drinking and driving out there!

marylmi, even that would have to be an ongoing test. Nothing to stop someone from having someone else start the car or start drinking after they've started the engine. The problem is the ubiquity of cell phone use though...it makes it a much tougher issue to deal with.

It's crazy how I drove around everywhere without a cell phone before they became popular. Now I won't leave the house without one. But it stays in the purse, even when ringing, until I can stop safely to answer it. I can always call them back. There's nothing anyone can say to me that is so critical in that moment that it can't wait so that I don't become someone else's critical problem.

“It makes sense that the people who use the features will be the ones defending them. After all, most people consider themselves to be above-average drivers despite the statistical impossibility!”

Really? If you drove as much as I do and live in the area I live in, you would consider yourself to be “capable” and say it’s not a problem too. Maybe, just maybe, demographics and the natural driving habits of people play a bigger part than anyone is considering. When I lived in SoCal where every road is packed and most people are driving up the A$$ of the guy in front of them, sure, maybe cell phone use isn’t the best idea. But lucky for me, I no longer live in those conditions. When I’m on the road, our roads and freeways are wide open and talking while driving is not a tough task.

When I’m on the road, our roads and freeways are wide open and talking while driving is not a tough task.

Ask Jack Young, the 20 yr old who was texting on a rural TX road when he crashed into a church bus and killed 13 people.

Not sure what demographics you have in mind in your comment, lukkiirish...too old? too young? too urban? too rural?

I never said it's difficult to talk on the phone while driving. Of course it's not. However, It is more distracting than not talking on the phone while driving. That's not really debatable.

It's clear that people who do this feel that they are not any more distracted, which ties into my point that most people also believe themselves to be better than average drivers.

Texting is much worse, but you see the same mindset there. They believe they are "capable" and can handle doing it and people who can't are just bad drivers.

I want to drive on roads where everyone is completely focused on driving. Not on the phone, not texting, not eating or putting on makeup. There would be far less accidents.

I don't see that anyone has defended texting while driving, why bring it into this discussion of talking hands free while driving?

Texting while driving is far more dangerous, but it's also under the same category of distracted driving. Hands free talking is legal but personally I only believe that it's legal as a concession, because people are determined to stay connected no matter what, and hands free is much safer than fumbling with the device.

Legal does not always mean safe. It's legal to drive with a small amount of alcohol in your blood. Is that as safe as driving without alcohol? No. That's how I think of hands free talking. Legal but still more of a distraction than not doing it at all.

Annie, my point was that IMO, it’s not so black and white, that someone in New York or Los Angeles may have more to consider, it’s certainly different from driving in light traffic. And you can’t compare a 20 year old driver with an adult in her 50’s whose been driving since she was 16. The two have very different maturity and experience levels and insurance premiums prove that point. But, maybe the road conditions are different too, rural doesn’t always mean a straight well paved road in sunny conditions. If it’s storming or the road is full of curves or snow, then it adds to the risk and one has to take that into consideration (and I do). I’m a seasoned driver, I live in a rural neck of the woods where it isn’t bumper to bumper traffic and my driving history reflects that I’m a responsible driver. There are ALWAYS going to be people who shouldn’t do certain things, when other people are perfectly capable, that’s a given. I love music, but I find it to be distracting, so no music for me, but just because I don’t feel comfortable with music or even an audio book, doesn’t mean that everyone should stop playing music or listening to a story. I hate guns and feel strongly about how they should be regulated. I feel they are dangerous and some of the statistics back that up, but others feel differently and where it’s legal, guns are a given. It’s really about knowing your limits and making good decisions for your own situation.

Edited to clarify my thoughts.

Fact: Driving while distracted by having a conversation on a cell phone is dangerous to you and to everyone else around you. It doesn't matter whether you are holding a phone or not. What matters is that your mind is not entirely focused on driving. It doesn't matter where you're driving -- on a side road or an expressway.

Fact: We cannot stop some driver distractions like talking to a passenger, reading, applying makeup, etc.

Fact: There is technology in use today that blocks cell phone signals to moving vehicles. It's in use by trucking companies and other concerns who recognize the financial LIABILITY.

There is nothing 'old fashioned' about citing a documented concern with something new as it becomes widespread. New things come with positives -- and often negative aspects that have to be refined. Early automobiles had a LOT of safety issues. Here is a recent one.

Immd_gaz, if you are so livid at me and Olychick, at least have the guts to call out everyone else on this thread who uses their phone!

here's the list to help you out:

anglophilia, pkramer60, outside playing, kris-zone6, marylmi, watchmelol, elmer, jakkom and lukkirish.

Sprtphntc7a - Ummmm, that’s LUKKIIRISH and you can call me out all you want, but at least get it right when you do. I use my blue tooth, the phone stays in the front pocket of my bag.

Chisue, think about your facts the next time you have a passenger sitting in your car. I feel a lot more distracted when someone next to me is talking away and expects me to engage as if I have nothing more important to do. The only thing worse IMO is a car load of people or kids. If I have to have a conversation with someone, I’d much rather it be without them sitting right next to me. At least that way I have some control over the situation and can easily say I need to go. For some reason with a telephone call, no one is ever offended when you say traffic has changed and I need to hang up.

Lukkiirish, please re-read my first paragraph.

my apologies for not spelling your name correctly.

In addition to being able to speak while I drive, I can read too. She posted before we did, so you had to throw our names into the pot with you kind of like a school kid caught with her hand in the cookie jar. It really doesn’t matter though, I know myself, and am fine with my choices and that’s all that really matters.

sprpthntc7a, you are right in calling out my omission of others names who are as thick headed as you and Olychick on what is safe to do while driving. I was just too lazy to go all the way back and reread all the posts and collect the names.. But the two of you did impress me with your 'holier than thou' attitude on the matter the best.

No, I drive and talk all I want. Not going to change. Of course you all know I do not drive anything but my golf cart around my property. It is known as my "big rig".

Sue

lukkiirish -- Cell phone transmission to moving vehicles can be halted. We can do this. Corporations are doing this because they SEE that the problem is REAL, and they want to avoid the financial consequences.

We can't hush your chatty passenger or a car full of kids, but transmissions can be halted.

Commercially, sure....privately, I doubt it will ever happen unless as with drunk driving, someone does something to justify the action and that’s their punishment. Chicago may feel differently, but I seriously doubt the county I reside in in Michigan would be on board with that.

ETA: I see guns as a much bigger problem.

There has to be a way to selectively block transmissions, transmissions to police, ambulances and etc. are necessary.

The problem is that passengers will complain if they can't use their devices. Plus with our bribable public officials, the cell phone providers won't let that happen. Too much valuable data usage happens on the go.

I'd love if they blocked it in cars. It would be nice not to worry about driving near someone talking on the phone or texting.

Did I say I can't wait for driver-less cars! I have to focus on driving. It's crowded and dangerous out there. And I drive too much these days. Stay safe everyone.

I really was taken aback by the "holier than thou" take on my post. I sure don't feel that way, nor did I intend to come off that way. Hands free is legal in my state, however, the law now prohibits any contact with your cell, even when stopped in traffic. I've never used my cell in the car, I never look at texts and certainly wouldn't text myself. If hands free were illegal, I wouldn't do it. I never used my phone in the car before I had hands free and it is really a rare occasion when I do now - maybe to let someone know I'm stuck in traffic or running late. I have one route I take on a 2 lane country highway to my cabin, with long stretches of open road and sometimes I will talk to a friend for an extended period, but that, too, is rare.

I am careful about when and where I talk, not on unfamiliar roads or when traffic seems to be erratic. I do feel like I am a super aware driver, I drive defensively. The same with my GPS...I always put in the address before I start moving and it talks me through maneuvers. I do glance at the dash display to see what the next move is going to be and how far away it is, but like I said above, it's no more of a glance than at my speedometer.

I guess you can be livid if you want. I hope you don't ever turn on your car radio, or change the station or listen to the news. For some people that could be a big distraction and time with your eyes off the road. Same with smokers who light up while driving. Or people who drink their lattes, or even sip from water bottles. Only one hand available to control your car. I think it's a spectrum of distractions and abilities.

Awhile back, they did a study with a dash cam recording drivers over several months including what they were doing when they had near misses or accidents. One of the surprising and frequent distractions that led to accidents was reaching for something. So if you accidentally spill your purse on the car floor or drop something, leave it.

I steer hands free, that's is why I have knees. I do not own a cell phone.

We seldom use our cell phones, and never would I while driving, hands-free or not.

I sometimes accidentally activate Blue-Tooth in my car, and then I yell at it to Go Back or Off or whatever it takes to turn it off.

I'm lousy at multi-tasking, and I believe most people are, though they won't admit it. When I'm working, and talking on the phone, and I get a chat message from a supervisor, I can't respond to that, and talk at the same time.

When I talk to people who are in their car, I usually tell them I'll call them back, even though they're comfortable with talking to me, on their bluetooth.

Really Imgd? Look whose calling the kettle black! What a joke!

1. THe CD player was a bigger distraction than hands free calling. Of course they are being phased out but not because of accidents phone transmissions will never be stopped to moving private vehicles , you can be sure of that.

marylmi, do you have any cite for that statement re CD players more distracting than cell phones?

Annie, common sense tells me that they were. How could they not be? Much safer to tap the screen than it is to search through your CD's trying to find the one you want to play and I am sure most people didn't pull over to do that.