I can't help you at all, but just wanted to say that you are an angel. She looks so similar to you that she could truly pass as your daughter. I also did not know of your heartbreak in losing your husband. My heart goes out to you.

Thanks, Vap. I don’t think I’ve done or do more than anyone else would. Life gives everyone its share of sorrows and joys. It always helps me to remember that I’ve felt heartbroken before, and I got through it, even though it didn’t seem possible. Thanks for your kind words. The past month has been an emotional roller coaster with some real highs and lows.

As for the gardenia, we both love the idea of a standard.(like a tree rose). I guess I’ll start looking locally and online. I know nothing about different types of gardenias. I do know they like acidic soil, and never to fertilize them while you see buds. I have a little time, as the memorial service will be December 10th, on the beach. She’s very afraid of killing her gardenia, which is understandable. Lisa

I grow several varieties also. ours is acidic, clay soil which they seem to love. If they survive their first winter here, they are easy and carefree from then on in my humid climate. I've grown several in pots over the years, but in my zone, potted gardenias must be brought in for the winter...I got tired of doing that and only have them in the ground now. My favorite is the classic August Beauty, but it can get quite large. Jubilation is similar, but more compact. Both rebloom reliably for me throughout the season (heavy flush in spring, scattered flowering in summer and decent flush in fall). Frostproof is compact, but blooms are much smaller, not as fragrant to my nose and no rebloom here. No rebloom on the compact singles (daisy/pinwheel) here, either. I'm not familiar with sultry's suggestion...doesn't sound like it would be hardy for me, but it looks lovely and you wouldn't have to worry about hardiness in your zone

I can't grow gardenias here, where the soil and water are alkaline. Check to see what her conditions are. I know Bakersfield well, but I don't know their pH.

I'm so sorry for your and your friend's loss.

Gardenias generally don't like the inland valley hot areas of So Cal, but can be grown IF protected from being blistered and frozen. Drainage is essential. I have successfully grown them in pots in Santa Clarita and the SFV by using as large a pot as the area will permit and using MG Moisture Control Potting soil. Since your friend is concerned about having to move the pot, I would suggest a light weight foam, plastic or fiberglass type. The foam pots will last several years if kept out of the sun and will insulate the root ball against heat and cold. The Moisture Control soil retains more moisture and prevents over watering better, plus it doesn't totally dry out and then not be able to be re hydrated easily like the regular MG potting soil does. No, I don't own stock nor am I particularly fond of Scotts, but this soil works in hot, dry areas, for everything I've planted in it, and that's pretty much any and everything you can find at your local garden center. (I still use it exclusively here in Santa Maria because our wind desiccates everything so quickly.) Don't put the pot where the plant will receive direct, hot sun, unless it is in the very early morning when there is significantly less "heat" to the light as the pot can quickly and easily overheat and cook the plant. Gardenias in hot areas don't need "direct sun" and will flourish in filtered to indirect or reflected light.

I don't put saucers under my pots, period. I realize some don't like the water stains on their decking, patio, etc., but unless you are using distilled water, the salts in our tap water quickly build up in the soil. Add the fertilizer you will likely use to help keep the soil acidified and you can imagine how "salty" it will quickly become. If you must put something under the pot to prevent your porch, patio, etc., from being stained by the pot, use a very large saucer and put rocks, feet or bricks under the pot so the water can drain out of the soil and evaporate, rather than being drawn back into the soil ball.

Many types will work but Vetchii, the "everblooming gardenia", tends to flower more than most of the other commonly available types and can usually be found as standards, more easily in late spring to early summer. You may be able to still find some left overs from earlier this year at "real nurseries" rather than big box stores. It's the one I usually used for friends and clients who wanted gardenias because it works so well and flowers so reliably. I gave one to my middle sister when she and her husband bought their place in Newhall in 1985. She planted it on the back wall of her garage in a patio bed. It is still growing and flowering there. It never receives direct sun and is protected from the winds and freezes by her trellis patio cover and the garden walls.

Here, because of our alkaline water, potted gardenias require either rainwater or distilled water. Tap water kills them. Although I cannot know for certain, I would guess that your tap water too would be too alkaline to use on a gardenia. I second Kim's suggested variety because it produces more flowers over a longer time than the varieties with larger flowers such as 'August Beauty' and although smaller, they are of adequate size.

Cath

I had another thought. Would the ashes make the soil too alkaline for a gardenia? Thoughts?

Cath

Google it. Most information states the ashes are toxic to plant life. The Living Urn site (which is where the young lady will receive her ashes) supplies an "ash neutralizing agent" and a "premium growth mix". It states the ashes will cause the soil to become far too alkaline for plants and they contain greatly elevated sodium levels. The manufacturer will sell you evergreen or "seasonal" tree seedlings which leads me to believe they are suggesting to plant the tree in the ground with the packaged ashes under it. I honestly don't know if using the Living Urn in a potted, acid loving plant is going to be a good idea.

The first thing that came to my mind is how I’d feel if for whatever reason the plant died, a double dose of sadness. I’ve never heard of growing plants in an ash mix though I do add fireplace ashes to my compost pile. I’d pick an easier plant for sure. Seems like there’s a lot of love in this family to comfort this family at this time.

Lisa so kind of you to be there for this gal! You are just such a nice person. She may want to think a while before deciding what to do with her mom's ashes. If she wants to have a beautiful gardenia in her memory, I think that's a wonderful idea! My thought is that if she puts the ashes in the pot, what about re potting it in the future, etc.? It's such a personal decision. My parents have both passed, my mom most recently, and my brother and I are still pondering what to do with their ashes. There is plenty of time to choose something fitting, and it is so hard to make decisions when you are early on in the grief process. Best wishes to all of you!

Julie

I would post on the co Rainer plant forum. They have really good information on potting mediums and watering etc.

You brought up a good point, Julie. Ideally, whatever you do with the ashes should be "permanent", so they aren't disturbed. Or at least not disturbed by you for something like repotting a plant. Burying them under a tree, destined to grow large and live for decades would seem a decent resting place. I agree with you about perhaps taking time to decide. Living Urn does state the bamboo container they supply it all in can be used to store them indefinitely. Might the city in which the lady lived accept them to be buried under a newly planted tree in a park? Perhaps one which meant something to her?

I can’t thank you all enough for all this help. Yes, my major concern has been from the start keeping the gardenia alive. She has stated multiple times that she is terrified of killing it. I spoke with my brother last night who has a dairy near Visalia. About the same water PH. He says very alkaline, about 8. It is so bad, that he said my brother-in-law has a sulfuric acid injection system installed in his lawn sprinklers. So obviously the water is a big problem.

She is definitely not willing to plant something that she may need to leave behind in the future. She wants the ashes in a pot at her home, and if they sell the house, wants to bring it with her. When she said “Gardenia” my heart immediately sank. I know they are fussy. I asked if another plant would do, and she said, “Not really”. The scent will always remind her of her mother. The Living Urn site actually offers a gardenia as one of its choices, should you take a package with one of their plants. They also offer azaleas and hydrangeas. They do replace your plant should it die. They must be aware of the fussiness of the gardenia. Maybe this is a better option considering Bakersfield? Also she, her husband, and children will stay with me for a few days around the memorial time. She would like to have the potted gardenia there, at the memorial. Thanks so so much, Lisa

I just spoke with her again. Gardenia it is! She is willing to do whatever it takes to keep it happy and healthy. I suggested buying a rain barrel or two and watering the gardenia from that. Her reply was, “I can do that”. Today I’ll head over to my favorite nursery, Walter Andersens, and see what they have. Thank goodness for my iPhone, I can take and send pictures from there. I just hope they have the right one! Lisa

Lisa, to offer you some solace: gardenias have not been difficult for me as long as the water issue is scrupulously accommodated and they don't sit in water. In fact they root readily in about 2-3 weeks on my kitchen counter under a window (roots in shade) if cuttings are placed in distilled water that is changed once a week with a plastic bag placed over the cuttings.

Cath

Lisa, a beautiful story of reciprocal love and generosity! May I fill the world with your spirit?

I have mixed ashes of beloved pets into my garden soil and then planted easily propagated shrubs above: hydrangeas, old roses, camellias, mock oranges, lilacs, dogwoods, etc. That way I can always take a piece of the living memorial with me wherever I relocate. Carol

Lisa I don't know if this would work for you. They make products for hydroponics to adjust the pH of the water, maybe she could try that? I think it's called pH Down. Just a thought! I'm sure it will be lovely.

They do make jewelry that you can put some ashes into also. Maybe that would be a comfort should the soil need changed in the pot or something. There's probably a better selection online. We looked into having diamonds created, but that was a little pricey :).

I am glad to hear that gardenias have been easy for you Cath. Dingo, I have seen that PH down product somewhere, just never gave it a thought. I will definitely look into it. Someone at a nursery yesterday told me she gives hers a cup of coffee(brewed and cooled) every two weeks for acidity.

After several nurseries, I found ONE standard gardenia called “First Love”. It blooms in spring and early summer. It has huge blooms. She decided she wanted that one. It is grafted onto Gardenia Thunbergia rootstock. I purchased it as a 5 gallon standard, and also as a one gallon bush. I will grow the bush myself, so that I can better help her from afar. I would post a photo of the standard, but I cannot get it out of my car on my own. I am awaiting help. For now, this is my one gallon bush.

Lisa, I just hope you don't get too emotionally invested in the survival of the gardenia. It may work out fine- gardenias are not the most predictable of plants- but it sounds like the living urn concept works best when the urn is planted in the ground.

I like Carol's thought that the gardenia itself could be the memorial, and the thing to take along if she moves away.

Thunbergia is much less pH demanding than all the others, which is why they graft them on it. Thunbergia is actually rather difficult to kill. I planted one at my sister's house in Newhall years ago. It froze and dried out, looking very "dead" for quite a while. There was push back from the head of her HOA to remove the "dead plant", but the blamed thing resurrected to thumb its nose at everyone. I could never get it to flower, but it was the right color, got rather large and continued pushing new growth for years. For Thunbergia roots, I wouldn't go overboard with the acidity, but I would watch the water and drainage. First Love has a rather formal, "corsage" shape with the traditional, heavy scent. She should be quite pleased with it. Good luck and congratulations!

You can also use Hydrangea Blue, which is aluminum sulfate and can burn if applied improperly, or even safer, something like Espoma Soil Acidifier (available at most garden centers and big box stores) which is a lot safer and harder to burn plants with. If the potting soil is peat based, all it should require is an occasional dose of something like Miracid. I would definitely go the "weakly, weekly" route as I suggest for newly propagated roses. Whatever she uses, you can always use more if needed, but it is very devilish trying to remove too much. She may even discover with the Thunbergia roots the pH isn't as much of an issue as feared.

Oh good! I’m glad you’ve confirmed what the nice man at the nursery told me about the rootstock being less fussy than many gardenias, Kim. I do hope it will bloom.

I know what you mean, Virginia. I feel pretty responsible for this special plant. She really, really is set on the ashes in the pot with the gardenia, so all I can do is help as much as I can. You are correct, I would feel almost as bad as she would, if it died. I’m hoping that by having one of my own to grow here, I can learn and advise her better along the way. I’m obviously very emotionally invested, and didn’t realize how much, until you pointed it out. When someone you love is hurting your automatic response is, “What can I do for you.” When you actually receive a specific request, you put your all into it. She’s thankfully the type that would never blame me, should things go wrong, but I sure don’t want that for her.

Dingo, I’m going to suggest she look into keeping a small bit of ashes in a locket. Thanks. She did look into the diamond thing, I think. You’re right, VERY pricey. Lisa

You're welcome, Lisa! I don't doubt the First Love will flower. The Thunbergia I planted was in a difficult spot where it was pelted by winds and nibbled by rabbits, but it grew, and grew. I'm not surprised it never flowered due to the wind, rabbits and freezes, but the blamed thing wouldn't DIE. That says a lot. The Vetchii in the sheltered back yard flowers a lot every year. I honestly believe you both will be pleased with the results. Fingers remain crossed!

My youngest son came over to take the gardenia tree out of my car for me. I didn’t even dare try, for fear of damaging it. It’s pretty tall! I had my somewhat reluctant son stand next to it for scale. He is just over 6F tall.

They could be either. Google "gardenia flower buds" and click on "images" to see what they look like as they develop. They can fall from being moved to different conditions as well as improper watering, but don't let it intimidate you. They really are harder to kill than you believe! Moist but not soggy with good drainage and protection from extremes in all directions and you should be fine.

They are indeed buds!

Congratulations!

Definitely buds.

I use pine fines and additional perlite added to my gardenia potting soil. They really like a chunky mix. Here in Florida, Lowes and now, some walmarts, carry a potting mix called Jungle Growth, which is perfect for tropicals. I use it as a base for all my tropicals and other some other plants, depending what I add to it. It has a chunkier/looser mix than Miracle Grow which is mostly peat. I don't know if they carry Jungle Growth on the west coast or not. Walmarts carry pine fines in the garden section for a reasonable price. I have also used the smaller Orchid Bark added into potting mixes with good results. It sometimes has bits of charcoal in it but I have never had any problems with it.

Gardenias do like to be mulched so you could add some pine fines or chunkier wood chips to the top of your pot. They like the roots a little cooler. If you are going to have the pot on a concrete patio you can get one of those little pieces of cork and cuts out some little 'feet' for your pot being careful not to block the drainage holes. This keeps the roots from getting too hot. I used that method in Lake Havasu City, AZ where it got insanely hot and our yard was mostly gravel and cement. I also had a misting system set up for my plants and shade cloth. I had gingers and bananas flowering in the desert :)

As mentioned, Miracle Grow for Alzaleas etc is a good fertilizer. My gardenias like a little fish fertilizer once in a while too. They also love to be topped with Vermicompost in the spring. Apparently, "back-in-the-day" people in the south dumped the chamber pots/night soil on their Gardenias and they flourished lol. They do seem to respond well to organic fertilizers. I use composted chicken and rabbit manures on them and the other plants here.

Good advice on not using a saucer under your pots. Sure death for gardenias. In a dry hot climate, they might appreciate a little filtered afternoon shade. The humidity is less in dry climates so plants that like humidity get more intense light and can burn easier. Here, I can put many things in full sun that I could not in AZ or parts of So Cal when I lived there.

There are some good videos on You Tube on Gardenia care if you do a search on that site.

~Sjn

That's much like "sun azaleas". Where it's cooler and much more humid, there are such things, but not in the hot, inland areas here. When I worked in Pacific Palisades, there was a home on the bluff above the ocean which grew two rows of Red Bird azalea, lining their brick drive. Those things flowered most of the year and were spectacular. But, "hot" was typically below 80 F and every night the fog was heavy enough to make mornings appear as if it had rained. Move just three miles up the mountain or five miles inland and you had to provide shade from mid morning on or the plants melted. Pretty much the same with gardenias in the hot areas. I've seen very few "happy" ones where they received the hotter sun. Most have looked best where they didn't get direct sun except during the very early morning hours with significantly reduced levels for the rest of the day.