I hope everyone has received mine by now. We are just back from two weeks in New Zealand, and I mailed them couple of days before we left. I'll be picking up my stopped mail in the morning and I am anticipating lots of cards and bookmarks!

Rosefolly

I got yours, Rosefolly! I think I've received all of mine now.

I mailed mine on Wednesday afternoon (12/13). Vee, I hope yours makes it by Christmas!

Donna

I mailed mine yesterday and have received several, including your, Rosefolly. Thank you all.

I sent mine out last week, and have received several - including your lovely crocheted one today, Donna! I love the variety from everyone, thank you!

I have already received several most attractive cards and book marks from RP friends, for which many thanks. I have noticed over the last few years that mail from the US is taking much longer to reach us; often ten days or more. Is your 'internal' mail service just as slow? Probably the Royal Mail is just as tardy crossing the Pond!

I just love getting bookmarks in the mail :) It's presents every day.

USPS mail is generally quite speedy. They try to justify their ever-rising prices by being efficient !! ( mostly)

Thank you to all my RP friends who sent such lovely bookmarks! And, thanks for keeping this tradition alive. For Christmas, my son gave me the book Life and Death are Wearing Me Out by Mo Yan, now which bookmark to use?

Yes, thank you all! It was such fun to receive the packages. Thank you!

Donna

Tom and I were away most of the month of December, in New Zealand for the first half of the month, then visiting family in Arizona until Christmas. That is why I sent mine so early.

I am just now opening my bookmark cards. How wonderful they are, thoughtful, clever, lovely -- each different and each obviously carefully chosen or created. Thank you all! I love this tradition, and am so glad it has continued all these years.

Rosefolly

Thank you from the bottom of my heart! Such a fun and wonderful tradition.

On another thread, Carolyn mentioned that she keeps all her bookmarks in a vase on her bedroom bookcase. I was inspired to get mine and put them into a wooden box my father made me many years ago, and put it on my own bedroom bookcase where they will be handy. That box is about the size of a shoebox, but somewhat smaller inside. It is close to full with years of accumulated bookmarks. Apparently I'll have to start using them instead of hoarding them. In any case, I came across two more sets of bookmarks that I never sent out, and had forgotten I had. If we do this again next year -- and I hope we will -- I am all set!

Rosefolly

Oh, not nearly all, Rosefolly. I have six 16 x 20" frames hanging on the back hall wall and filled with bookmarks from years ago, and a dozen business-sized envelopes running over with different categories of others, many from you all but also collected in travels and bookshops and gifts through the years just waiting for me to win the lottery so I can have them framed, too. And I have an empty wall just waiting for them.

I like most of them too much to use them. Instead, I like to use British train tickets to mark my place in books. They are stiffened small rectangles and work perfectly, although I've always wondered if someone found the one that blew off a hotel balcony in Hawaii and tried to figure out how it got there.

Well, I did think it was probably a BIG vase ;-)

I keep mine in a cedar box made years ago by Lane furniture.

In the 60's it was traditional for a girl graduating high school to register for a cedar chest or hope chest to begin collecting her treasures to be used for her future home.

Lane used to make small cedar boxes with a key lock and give them to graduates with a certificate inviting them to come to a local store to shop for their official hope chest . These boxes were stamped inside the lid with the Lane emblem and the name and location of the store where they were sold.

I've found these boxes at garage sales from time to time and have six of them, one of which is my own original Lane box which I received when I was leaving for college. It's always interesting to see where they originated.

Does anyone else recall these Lane boxes ?

Yvonne, I have one of those Lane boxes on a closet shelf. I just now took it down to see what's inside and I have to thank you for prompting me to do so. Among other things, it contains a high-school photo of a dear friend who died of ovarian cancer this past June. On the back of the photo was a note in which she wrote, "I'll rate you no. 1 as a friend!" So my Lane box has just become a true treasure chest for me.

My Lane box came from Skorberg of Naperville - Naperville, Illinois.

Kathy,

The one for my bookmarks came from A&S Furniture STore, Endicott NY (right across the river from me ).

The others came from :

Union- Fern (?)

Gem Furniture, Danville PA

Love Furniture, Vestal, NY ( right down the road !)

A&S Furniture, Endicott NY ( my second one from that store)

I opened mine and found my bronzed baby shoes ( circa 1945) and my original Lane graduation refund bond ( whatever that was !) and a valentine from my Dad who has been gone for so long. My treasure chest as well :0))

I have mine from People's Hardware and Furniture Company, Leitchfield, KY. It contains a strand of broken kukui nut beads from Hawaii c. 1955 and some old junk jewelry that visiting little girls used to play with.

Rosefolly,. If I didn't already have "treasures" in the box our father made for me, I would have done the same thing with my bookmarks. As it is, I put them into a wooden jewelry box I won in a drawing at an event I went to for work a few years ago.

Over here your US 'Hope Chests' used to be called the 'bottom drawer' where bright-eyed young women were expected to save linen, fancy lingerie, embroidered bits and pieces towards their eventual marriage.

These days such an idea would be laughed at with scorn by modern girls, many of whom have little intention of getting hitched, despite the uncertainty of taking on a 'live-in' partner and maybe his children from a previous relationship to add to the ones they might produce together..

Sorry to sound old and cynical (both of which I am) but I do feel for the kids of these transient pairings . . . maybe they are tougher than my generation and will come through with no problems but . . . .?

Vee, I agree .

The idea of a "hope chest" is a lost tradition....unless it is still cherished in our South where many older values still exist. ( I am presuming).

Today's young women live a very different life. I can't say whether it is better or worse, depends on the outcome !

I have a granddaughter who is a junior in college and as I listen to her stories I find myself cringing ( and I am NOT by any stretch of definition a prude !). I've decided to give her the book Ten Stupid Things Women Do To Mess Up Their Lives by Dr. Laura Schlessinger. ( she is a very controversial psychotherapist due to her outspoken approach, but I appreciate the hard line she takes regarding living a responsible life.)

Note to self: Unasked for advice is seldom as warmly received as we had imagined it would be !

Women still do get married, though usually not as young as they did a generation or two ago. It's just not the only thing they plan to do, and they don't intend to build their entire life around being a wife and mother. I think that is actually a good thing.

Having nice linens and silver/stainless doesn't seem to be an important goal, or if it is, they put it on their gift registry when they get married. And if they don't get what they want, they can buy it themselves because they have their own jobs. Of course, saving for a house might seem to be a more important goal in the budget.

Personally I like the idea of young women not simply sitting around waiting to be chosen for their life to happen. Yes, many of them make bad mistakes. Are those mistakes any worse than marrying in haste? Sometimes they are, but also sometimes not.

Rosefolly

Hopefully today more young woman find validation through their careers and life choices instead of solely from another person.

I once had a book called After the Wedding Comes a Marriage. It had some good information.

I'm with Vee in being old and more cynical than I would like to be.

I'm battling cynicism myself. I think a touch of it is prudent, but being immersed in it seems to be incompatible with happiness.

At the threshold of old age, I find myself to be slipping into impatience and crankiness. I'm doing my best to fight them off. These traits naturally come with advancing years, but clearly they can be avoided. We all know older people who are pleasant company and full of a vibrant enjoyment of life. I want to be one of those people; not a doormat, and definitely not "cute" (how demeaning!), but a fully developed, fully functional person who is still enjoying life. If I have a choice - and I hope I do - that is what I want.

But good grief, it is so easy to slip into grumpiness!

Carolyn ......I prefer to see us as older and wiser. We've learned to see things for what they are :0) I have learned that I don't have to agree with or please everyone and will generously offer my opinions and insights !

"To thine own self be true ...."

When I was in my early twenties, my boss told me that "not everyone you come across will like you" but I really wanted to be liked and tried to get on with people.

Now, in my early eighties, I am not so bothered!

Yes. crankiness and impatience does come with old age and isn't a pleasant trait. It is hard not to be cranky and impatient though when some people treat you like an idiot just because you are female and worse still, an OLD female!

Although sometimes it can work for you. When my late mother used to get in touch with certain Government departments, she used to put on her 'silly old woman voice' which apparently got her especially good service...

That is much nicer, Yoyobon, and, Ann, I like your mother.

However .....I do go full-on cranky if any service person or sales person calls me "sweetie" or " hon".

Needless to say , I will offer my opinion on that sloppy habit .

I have a name or you may call me " M'am" but I am NOT your sweetie or honey.

I grew up in a region where "hon" was a friendly and polite greeting, so that one does not particularly bother me, but I can see why it might bother someone who did not grow up with it.

I dislike "senior citizen" because it is a euphemism, and euphemisms are dance-around words for something too unpleasant to actually say. Are we really that terrified of the words old, older, elder, elderly? Apparently so!

And as said before, I find "cute" to be offensive. Puppies are cute. Kittens are cute. Small children are cute, even adorable. Calling an older adult "cute" is a way, perhaps unintended, of diminishing them while seeming to admire them.

Rosefolly

Yoyo, I get called all kinds of odd names but ignore it as people are usually being helpful. I do grit my teeth when an elderly gentleman refers to me as a "young lady". I am so obviously not young!

If "sweetie " or "hon" are meant kindly rather than demeaning, uncrank yourself, though! In the UK, I have been kindly called "Ducks" or "Duckie"!

Rosefolly, I like being a Senior Citizen, or Senior as it is usually shortened to in Australia. Quite dignified! Beats Old Woman...

I hate "young lady", too. I grit my teeth. I also dislike "Miss", though I try to cut people a break on that one. So many times when a man politely addresses an adult woman as "Ma'am", she responds either coyly or indignantly with "Oh, I'm not old enough for Ma'am!" So I get it that they have given up in despair.

"Ma'am" has come to Australia, via the UK and then the US, I believe.

At one time the Italian shopkeepers who migrated here after WW2 used to call us "Lady" which was usually pronounced as "Lie-dy" and was their equivalent of Signora.

My personal dislike is for people who say that they are so many years YOUNG as I think it only points out that they aren't!

I don't mind people saying how young I am in my outlook, though! It makes a change from being regarded as a dinosaur!

I have never heard "Ma'am" used over here unless one is addressing members of the Royal Family . .. which I never have! In this area all the women shop workers etc call everyone "My Luurve" in a slightly singsong Welsh accent. It is so automatic for them they would be seriously hurt if corrected.

We don't much hear the term "Senior" (considered American), OAP is the more usual expression.

Rosefolly, the English pride themselves on their cynicism. Much of our so-called sense of humour is based on it.

You may be familiar with the old Noel Coward song. See below

There Are Bad Times Just Around the Corner

Vee, As a good number of our seniors are comfortably off Self Funded retirees, they would object to being referred to as OAPs! Strongly!! So Senior is a nice all-inclusive and acceptably dignified term for the older population.

We don't like being called guys. A young beautician who came to my mainly Owner/Occupier Retirement Village and addressed a meeting, proposing to set up a small business with us as clients, started by greeting us as guys and it did not go well from then on.

I feel the world is losing it's civility.

And I suspect it begins and ends in the home.

Parents are the greatest influence , for the most part, on a child's instruction in manners and social behavior. When the parents are not modeling this, then all bets are off , as they say.

Case in point, I suggest that my 8 year old grandson ask to be excused when he wants to leave the table before anyone else is finished eating and talking. I think that is a polite alternative to simply getting up and walking away from the table. I also feel it demonstrates a bit of respect for those still at the table. However, my DIL vigorously rejects that idea and immediately tells him he doesn't have to ask to leave the table ( which by the way occurs in our home). *sigh* ( biting my tongue)

annpan, I agree about the word "guys". Our local pub has recently been taken over by a family who wanted to help their 20 something year old son to 'come out of his shell' (I think he suffers from Asperger's or similar) He 'greets' people at the bar with "Hi Guys" in a doom-laden voice and I realise I should make allowances for him but I would like to suggest to him that I am not a guy. He has recently left the place and his more outward-going sister has taken over.

yoyo. re civility and everyday manners. I agree that children should ask if they may leave the table, especially if they are guests in another house. You are hardly likely to refuse them.

Another bug-bear is children who are allowed to butt in to adult conversations.

John used to go wild in his teaching days when, for eg, he was having a conversation with another member of staff and Little Tommy would come up and say "Blah Blah . .. " to the other teacher. Instead of correcting him "Wait a minute Tommy, I'm talking to Mr R" she would break off and chat to the boy. Even worse was when a kid hovered around waiting to talk to said Teacher and she would just ignore J and chat to the kid, with not even a "Excuse me I must deal with this" etc. And this wasn't just a one off with an ill-mannered staff member . . . there were many of them!

Vee.......as a retired teacher myself I shudder at this scenario. The problem is that children suddenly have fragile egos that must always and ever be soothed. So they are allowed to believe that their every want and desire MUST come first . The only way they learn respect and proper behavior is to have it reinforced on all levels, in a kind manner. This interupter was obviously allowed at home to be "on a par" with the adults and those adults neglected to teach the order of conversation....specifically waiting your turn and listening !

Irksome.

Do I wish for the era when children were seen and not heard ? No, however, if they must be heard then let's instill some manners ( if the parents have any themselves).

We children always had a little piece to say before we left the table.

"Thank the Lord for my good dinner. Please may I get down?"

I think my grandmother, whose home we lived in at that time must have copied it from a household where she was "In service".

Yoyo, your house, your rules!

Some of my grandchildren have never been taught to acknowledge gifts sent to them. That really annoys me. I still send them though as it is their mother's fault for not teaching them.

When I have occasionally politely brought this to my son's attention, I do get a belated phone call but I dislike to tattle on his children and their two indifferent mothers. I prefer to let things slide for the sake of harmony.

Re: the use of "guys".

It is everywhere today. Sort of a rough version of the Southern "Y'all".

I can remember when the use of "youse guys" was the ultimate thug expression shunned by anyone with more than a 4th grade education ! "You guys" appears to be a cleaned up, upscale reincarnation of that !

*sigh*

And let's NOT even talk about the use of " Dude". ugh.

Anna......being a MIL is not an easy job !

It is not. However I was graced with two nice MIL's, so I try to pass it forward by being one myself. It helps when you like your sons-in-law, which I do. My son has not married, so I don't know if I would do as well with a daughter-in-law.

Chiming in to say that, as a Southern girl, we were all brought up to say to our elders: "Yes, Sir" and "No, M'am." Of course that has gone the way of the dinosaur now. Once in a great while, now that I live in Charleston, SC, I hear some of the college students use these terms to their elders.

As for "you guys" and "y'all", I am afraid that both are here to stay. It is just part of the changing slang of the American scene. Language is a living entity, not engraved in stone, although, there is a movement to bring back spoken Latin....

I am in a French conversation group. When I use slang I learnt in Paris in the 60's, I am corrected by our native Francaise, who will tell me: "Oh that is so outdated; we now have a new slang term for so and so, etc." And so it goes...

I love that the bookmark thread has turned in a discussion on manners! I miss all of you!

This is the first year in ages that I have missed the exchange and that makes me quite sad - I was in Australia in October/November, and upon my return I began to prepare for my permanent immigration, which occurs this coming Tuesday (gulp.) Next year, I hope! Postcards are a great idea, I think, I will start collecting them in my new country.

Hi, Siobhan. It's nice to hear from you, and what exciting news. Please report back on your move. Are you going with/joining someone you know? New job? Inquiring minds want to know!

Hi Siobhan! So good to see you here again :) My daughter spent a semester in Australia two years ago now and absolutely loved it. She was in Melbourne and is itching to go back. Good luck with your move!

G'Day Siobhan I'm sure you'll love your new life. Do keep in touch with us RP'ers.

Siobhan, how exciting for you! I hope all goes well for you in your new home. Fortunately, you will still be able to join us here; as long as you have internet service we can stay in touch.

Siobhan, congratulations on your new adventure! My DH Tom and I have been contemplating the possibility of moving to a different state some distance away. I was experiencing some twinges of nerves about such a big change. But that is nothing like moving to an entirely new country. If you can do that, surely I can do this, if we do so decide.

We'd love to hear about your move. Will you perhaps be anywhere near Kath? It is after all quite a big country.