I think they would be much of a muchness. The warmer one would, I think, be the fatter one - grain stems are hollow, and the larger the thickness of the stem, the more air and the more insulation. I don't really think that the differences would be major ones, though. If either type looks to have been wet, and is damp, discolored or dusty, I would get the other one.

FLsandytoes- Proofing the yeast was an interesting "new" twist to making fluffy bread in a bread machine, and one I've never come across. I think there are probably much better methods, but one just never knows..... I had a friend who used fresh yeast in his bread machine and it had to be proofed, so there are some applications for this process in a bread machine. I have a recipe for white sandwich bread that uses 1 cup of white cake mix, as another interesting example for making "fluffy" white bread, due to the soft wheat flour in the cake mix. FYI -- Two tablespoons of non-fat powdered milk, reconstituted, equals 1/2 c. of milk - which is a reasonable amount of milk in a bread recipe without causing crumb and crust problems. Much more than that and you will need to scald the milk first to avoid the textural problems caused by too much milk (from the milk whey protein). Heating the milk denatures the problematic protein. Try the recipe with 1/2 c. of milk and the remaining liquid water and see if you get different results. You will STILL need to adjust the dough for correct hydration (soft sticky ball) while it's starting to knead. --To improve 100% whole wheat bread, add an acidic ingredient, such as ascorbic acid. Some yeast products add ascorbic acid to the yeast. Yeast works better and longer in a slightly acidic atmosphere. There is a substance in wheat germ called Glutathione which breaks down the gluten - and is why we have trouble getting high-rising, fluffy, loaves of whole wheat bread without lightening the loaf by adding bleached/unbleached flour. By adding ascorbic acid it will help counteract the negative effects of Glutathione and will help repair broken gluten bonds (which is the cause of short, compact, squatty loaves). Add 1/8 t. of ascorbic acid (Fruit Fresh will work - it's a mix of ascorbic and citric acid) per 3-cups of flour. You may also find some recipes for 100% whole wheat bread that add lemon juice or vinegar for the same acidic effect, but it takes a lot more lemon juice or vinegar than it does ascorbic acid. You would have to use 6-times as much lemon juice to be as effective as ascorbic acid. -- Another way to lighten 100% whole wheat bread is to do a sponge with a portion of the flour for at least 1-1/2 hours, and as long as overnight. When I incorporated this method I got high-rising loaves of 100% whole wheat bread that were equal to any light-wheat and white breads I made. Soaking whole wheat flour helps lighten the loaf by softening the bran (bran cuts the gluten) and it gives the gluten time to absorb moisture, which creates strong gluten bonds without manipulation (kneading). I always use a sponge method for 100% whole wheat bread made in the bread machine. -- When adding 10-Grain Cereal Mixture, add it towards the end of kneading at the add-in beep. This goes for anything that may have a sharp edge, like nuts, dried fruit, etc. Adding dried fruit (raisins) early in the process and the kneading will pulverize them. If you add this coarse grind of grains/seeds/beans early in the dough making process it will cut the gluten strands as the dough kneads and you'll end up with a short squatty loaf because of the cut gluten. I prefer adding a dry mixture at the add-in beep because I like the "toothy" nuggets from the cereal mixture. If you don't want that much texture, you may want to soak the mixture first, but still wait to add it at the add-in beep towards the end of kneading. -- Another way to improve 100% whole wheat bread is to wait to add the salt and fat after the dough is kneading and the gluten is well developed. Once you add salt, the gluten tightens and kneading is more difficult - with a bread machine or by hand. Adding the fat early in the mixing/kneading "shortens" the gluten strands and development for a finer textured loaf. You can make the exact same recipe, and by adding the fat early or adding the fat late, it will alter the crumb and size of the loaf. Adding fat early for a close crumb (bread used for sandwiches), add it late for a more open crumb (bread used for toasting). These options are neither right or wrong - but are options to help control the crumb of the bread. --The same bread making rules and techniques that apply to making bread without the bread machine also apply to making bread IN a bread machine - such as when to add salt and fat. Bread machines are designed to make bread quick and easy and doesn't always take into considerations these rules and techniques. -- Check the dough for proper hydration while it's kneading, not after it's rising, while you still have time for the ingredients to be mixed into the dough. -- I only use the bread machine for mixing and kneading dough. As soon as it has completed the kneading I stop the bread machine and remove the dough and place it in a dough-rising bucket. I don't want a machine with a timed rise to determine when the dough has "doubled", which is actually determined by the strength of the yeast, moisture and ambient temperature, not a clock. If I have 1-quart of dough patted into the bottom of the dough-rising bucket, I know it has doubled when it gets to the 2-quart line -- whether it takes 25-minutes or 1-hour. In fact, it's better to only allow dough to rise to just UNDER double because our flour no longer has the extensibility it did as when it was bromated, and whole wheat flour was never bromated. The reasons not to use milk for proofing: 1. Water is more reliable than milk. 2. When proofing yeast in milk use 4-times the amount of milk as yeast. Yeast also tends to clump in milk and not proof as well. If you have to stir the milk/yeast mixture, you will end up killing some of the yeast. 3. Yeast works best with sucrose (table sugar) over lactose (milk sugar). 4. Yeast granules can become coated with milk fat (much like fat coats flour when making pastry) which can restrict water from entering and dissolving the yeast. -Grainlady

MacThayer - This is my first opportunity since Saturday to check in and I was so pleased to find this recipe. As it happens, I'm making Vermont Oatmeal Maple-Honey Bread from the KA cookbook as I write. I went out and bought a couple new bread pans before the weekend, and thought I ought to get right back to my bread baking attempts before I lost my enthusiasm. The recipe is an all-purpose/whole wheat combo with rolled oats. I've measured all my ingredients on a scale and tested my temps with a thermometer. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.... The recipe you sent sounds wonderful, and thank you so much for the detailed tips. I will follow the recipe exactly and let you know how it turns out!

Not so much bread baking here. About every three weeks a couple boules. In between those weeks maybe some burger/sandwich buns or a pullman loaf. Our flour for the boules is 1,000grams. About 4 cups. When the second one comes out of the oven, we cut a 1/4 or third off the first. About an hour wait time. That chunk is enjoyed torn with butter and/or olive oil infused with herbs, fresh garlic, and anchovies. We always bake in the cooler morning hours. So sometimes with eggs. No way do we wait. I just stand the cut end edge down on a tea towel. No way is it better day two even un-cut. That includes Lahey's no-knead, Forkish pinch, and sourdough. (JMHO). Day two we prefer toasted under the broiler just the one top side. Then butter or rubbed with raw garlic and topped with tomato salad, (bruschetta). Or grilled pesto/mozzarella. (panini). Soup or stew, or to carry a dip.