Sugar Moon and Pope John Paul II are the absolute best whites for me. Both do better than JFK in my garden so far. Great bloom form, good size and wonderful scents.

My first thought, if she gardens in New Jersey too, was Marie Pavie, but it does not have the form you seem to be looking for. It is however a continuous bloomer that is known to have a lovely wafting fragrance.

Bolero has gorgeous, fragrant blooms on a very heat tolerant plant here in the desert. If it doesn't have disease or other issues in N.J. It could be a great choice. Also, if you are looking for a rose that stays relatively smaller, I have not heard of Bolero exceeding about 4' ( in California) and it took a number of years for it to achieve that size.

I have seen Claire Austin at times throw off a yellow cast... If you are looking for pure white.. It may not always have that appearance.

Is PJPII a no-no for New Jersey??

Thanks for the suggestions! I'll certainly look for Sugar Moon and PJPII, and of course Bolero. Marie Pavie, I doubt I could find her in a garden center (my aunt gardens in Pennsylvania, close to Philadelphia, so its a very similar climate to mine, though probably slightly warmer). Can you think of a mail-order source where I could get big healthy in-bloom specimens of any of these, at this time of year? I know that's a tall order. Its just, I don't want to get her a little baby plant that needs tons of TLC, I want her to have instant gratification! So that's the difficulty - I may be stuck with what I can find in garden centers. Any additional ideas or suggestions most appreciated, and thanks lsjemar and Desertgarden!

I do not know if Angel Gardens stocks the roses you want, but she does have some modern roses. She sometimes has 3 gallon plants, and will or use to ship them. If all else fails, it could be worth a call. I received a 3 gallon Carding Mill from A.G.

I bought a huge grafted Sugar Moon at Home Depot last year. The smell is divine, but she needs a full sun position. My recently delivered own-root Bolero was a good-sized healthy specimen from AREmporium, so that is another option. It smells very similar to SM, that is to say fabulous!

Someone recommened Polar Express to me as being a blooming machine with fragrant blooms.

I would second the recommendation for Pope John Paul II. It is vigorous, easy to grow, floriferous , wonderful classic HT blooms and extremely fragrant. It really is the benchmark of white roses, everything you could want from a modern rose. A number of white roses start blooming in short, ugly stubby clusters once the heat set in, and I noticed that PJP is a great exception to this...it may bloom in clusters, but the individual blooms still have decent size , form and are cuttable.

I grow Bolero, it is small, cute and fragrant, I would wish for a bit more vigor.

I like the substance of Honor, but it could use a few more petals and tends to bloom all at the top of the plant.

Full Sail, like all New Zealand's relatives, are too disease prone for me.

JFK is beautiful in spring, but it is the poster child for short stubby , ugly clusters once summer arrives.

Home Depot has Pope John in stock this year

I believe K&M roses has Pope John Paul II grafted on fortuniana, which here in the south is a good thing. They ship healthy, well established plants that for me, have become my best bloomers in their first season.

PJPII didn't winter great for me and was never vigorous. Nor did it bloom a lot. Lovely rose with a wonderful fragrance but after the second one died over the winter I quit trying. I've had JFK, Full Sail and Honor and of the three Honor was the best. It wintered the best and bloomed the most. It does black spot though. Both JFK and Full Sail tended to ball and not open in high humidity. So if humidity is a problem for you I wouldn't recommend them.

So far Moonstone has been pretty good for me. So so healthy but good vigor and hardiness and lots of bloom. I've also seen Sugar Moon locally and it looks good, healthy and vigorous with lots of bloom. And my friends say it's wintered well for them. I've been contemplating getting it myself. My cousin has DA's Tranquility and she likes that a lot. She is also a good gardener but not really into roses much. It has good vigor, bloom and hardiness for her. They say it's light yellow that fades to white but so far has mostly been just a creamy white with no yellow.

K&M sells great roses...on fortuniana! They will not winter in zone 6 without a great deal of protection. And even then it's iffy at best. Own root or grafted on Multiflora or Dr. Huey is best for zone 6 winters.

Ducher her if it grows in no. A beautiful old tea

Agree with Polar Express; it's one of those new Kordes garden roses that should grow and bloom well with minimal care. The others mentioned would be a ton of work, does she have a gardener who would spray/prune and all that?

And ask her first if she wants to grow a rose. I just offered PAOK to a 77 year old friend; easy to grow, fragrant and good repeat. She turned it down, "too much work". Getting the hose out hurts her back and a watering can is too heavy, she said.

Thanks, everybody, for all the comments and suggestions! I'll see what I can find locally (Polar Express in particular looks very promising, and Kordes roses tend to be easy, at least in my experience). And if that doesn't work, I'll try ARE, Angel, and maybe Roses Unlimited. I think I'll call, explain what I'm hoping for, and see if any of them can help me. My aunt is an amazingly energetic gardener (her tomatoes are the envy of one and all) but I do want to be sure that whatever white rose I get for her is not going to be a whiney "problem child"! Once again, I really appreciate all the great suggestion!

I'll cast my vote for the good Pope John Paul II. I've been eyeballing it for years and it was finally available at a local nursery this spring so I snagged it up! Whitest of the whites and easily puts JFK to shame. I can't yet comment on how it overwinters. Here is a picture of my new PJP, just planted

Of course I can't help,being totally out of the picture, lol, but I do hope you can find a good one for her,and my best wishes are being sent along to all,whether or not desired, lol!. White roses seem so tricky to me; for myself I never even look for them,since I prefer the lacy white flowers or the early ones of spring (all wild ones),but "de gustibus non disputandum est",and clearly we see from this thread that so many people have very good ideas,and that there are a lot of beauties out there. The really good ones wouldn't be a trouble to this lady, I think. Good luck on the quest!

Claire Austin is totally worth that price. I agree that ordering in a pot is a bad idea from DA- that is because the bare root are 2 plus years old (and great) and the potted are tiny babies that arrive very shocked from transport. Around here we can find potted DA roses for around 32 so I would call nurseries near you.

I grow both Claire Austin and Windermere which have both been fantastic. I have 7 icebergs in addition to these two and there is no comparison, the DA's are just so much nicer; I am thinking about ripping out all my iceburgs and replacing them with DA's. Claire Austin is also much better with fending off blackspot than my icebergs. I have not tried Desdemona but I have heard really great things about it as well.

How lovely to do this for your aunt! You're wise to be strategic about how much work the rose would be and how much bloom there is for the effort. Tomatoes produce a very tangible and profuse benefit for the efforts involved, but sometimes there is a slow return on a rose. Of the three you mention being locally available, by far JFK is the hardiest for me. Neither Honor nor Full Sail has even pretended to overwinter for me in zone 5, thought Seil has had luck with them in zone 6. Sometimes roses that are at their limit of hardiness for your zones may be the ones that fade after a few years. I also don't find that PJPII is a strongly growing rose in any form (grafted or own root). Bolero and Paloma Blanca and Polar Express are all much more reliable bloomers as well as hardy roses for me, and I like the idea of Polar Express.

Another rose that you might be able to find at a local store is Snowdrift, which is an Easy Elegance rose. This one is hardy in my zone 4 pocket of the yard and has now in its second year BURST into incredible bloom. I've seen very nice rebloom in other years so I think it would make a steady source of flowers for her, but it's not the best of cutting roses. However, the blooms are fully double and they start out looking cupped as the Austins do. It's also rock solid clean as far as blackspot goes, which is a huge issue for you in NJ. Mine is about 4' tall and wide, which may not fit in her space. Polar Express takes up less real estate and would be as resistant to disease I think for you.

Roses Unlimited sells most if not all of these and their gallon-sized roses often come with blooms already on them, but they do take some settling in as opposed to big nursery pots of roses.

Do let us know what you decide!

Cynthia

Frances,

Aunt Helen gardens in just about a zone between 6b and 7a, Philadelphia area. It is still in a 'winter damage,' growing environment for the exceptional floribunda and hybrid teas, Bolero, Sugar Moon and Pope JP II. Also, they both will contract black spot if not sprayed, organically or otherwise....not to mention the dreaded midge fly that is an ever present menace.

Winter protection and spraying may not be options for Aunt Helen to perform in order to get the most out of these great white roses, even if they were good zone choices.

May I suggest the Kordes rose Earth Angel. It is ADR so its winter hardiness and disease resistance are tops. The flower is exquisite. White with a pale pink center blushed, deeply cupped bloom in clusters of 3-4 on a 4' bush. The fragrance is strong and classy.

I believe Aunt Helen would have the greatest success with Earth Angel.

Both Madame Anisette and First Crush are two other Kordes, ADR roses that have possibilities. It do not like either of them as well as I like Earth Angel. Madame Anisette has the better formed flower of the two, but they both throw flowers with sloppy, mixed up centers.

Now, where to get a blooming size potted bush? That will take a bit of legwork on your part. It is out of stock at Heirloom and Chamblee's at this time, and when in stock again they will be gallon size there, not really blooming size.

Your best bet is to call around locally for a source.

Moses

More great suggestions! Polar Express sounds super, and I like Earth Angel too, though I worry the touch of pink may not be quite what Aunt Helen has in mind. Moses, I think you are right - even when HTs and floribundas are listed as hardy to zone 6/7, they often still have a lot of die-back without protection. And beautiful though PJP II and the others are, I think they'd probably need at least some spraying to look nice in our area, and I don't think my aunt will want to deal with this. So, my plan is to continue scouting the local garden centers (so far, I have only hit 3 on this quest, and there are plenty more to visit) to see if I can turn up any of the suggested roses. If not, I may go back to considering Claire Austin, since I know I can get good-looking plants and I know she does well in our area (if ONLY she were a pure white, not a creamy white! Claire, darn her hide, was not blooming on rose day. She was covered in buds, and when I pointed her out to Aunt Helen - I was researching my plan even then! - she mentioned that the buds looked rather yellow-y. Sigh.) OR I may follow Christopher's excellent suggestion - if I got a nice big gallon-size plant from RU, ARE, or Angel (depending on who has what variety - will have to check out the RU sale, though for this of course the rose doesn't have to be on sale!) it should be ready in time for my aunt's birthday in late August. Though to be honest, my first choice would be for her to have instant gratification in the next few weeks, if only I can find the right plant locally. But, you can't always have your first choice! Thanks everybody!

Frances, HD used to carry Radler's Milwaukee's Calatrava. That would be a good one. I wouldn't go with a HT unless she's going to treat for blackspot. Good luck!

Another vote for PJPII - gorgeous perfume, and huge, clean white blooms (often 6 inches across). Very vigorous too.