Need floor plan advice / ideas - Craftsman bungalow addition
My wife and I recently purchased a 1920's craftsman style 2+1 bungalow with the intention of renovating and adding on. We're in the process of finding an architect or residential designer. In the meantime, we measured the existing house (as well as our current home and furniture) and have been tinkering on paper (and in SketchUp) and would greatly appreciate any feedback or ideas.
Ideally, we'll end up with a minimum 3 BR, 2.5 bath house. We'd also like to keep it one story. Also, my wife is a photographer and would like ~500 sq ft studio (that could hopefully be converted to an in-law suite or 2 additional bedrooms later if we ever sell).
Here's the existing floor plan (from lead/asbestos inspection):
Here's our Take #1 superimposed on the lot (dashed lines are setbacks):
We tried to work with the existing driveway to have a side entry garage with enough room to backup and turn around. Changing the entry to the existing bath created a guest bedroom / en-suite (existing laundry becomes the new closet). We were less sure about how to re-purpose the existing living and master, but thought removing the non load bearing wall between them would create a large living space. And wouldn't you know, the 8 ft pool table we've always wanted would fit in that room comfortably and still leave room for a pub table and other games :-) The rest of the plan was expanding the kitchen that's open to a new family room and creating a master suite and 3rd bedroom (that would probably function as our office).
Take #1 has a few problems we couldn't figure out how to solve: there's no half-bath anywhere, so folks in the front game room are walking all the way through the house (or ducking into the guest en-suite). Also the studio would ideally have access to a bathroom, so we added one in there but it would save money if it could share a bathroom instead of having it's own. And our neighbor to the left is a lawn care service, so we're concerned with having the master a mere 10' setback away from early morning noises.
Take #1 where you can see it better:
So, on to Take #2. Changed to a front load garage and would make do with a turn-around further down the driveway. We liked the idea of flipping the covered patio over to the other side (better view) and separating the studio and garage to create a sort of protected courtyard. We kept the guest/en-suite idea and managed to squeeze in a powder room (5' x 4' 4"). The studio ends up sharing a bath with the 3rd bedroom, and we're insulated from the noisy neighbors some by the master bath and more distance. We tore out another wall to combine the existing kitchen and dining to create a larger dining room (which would be our office since we never use a formal dining room).
We don't have too many issues with Take#2, besides the fact that it probably costs more to build. But we'd love to hear some feedback, or get some fresh ideas that we probably haven't even considered.
Thanks in advance.
Comments (18)
PRO7 years agolast modified: 7 years agoI did a similar project years ago adding an large addition with garage to a bungalow. It was tricky in many aspects. I would recommend contacting a local architect who can see first hand the factors that will effect your project and come up with an efficient design. In my project, the lake is across the street at the top of the image.
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PRO7 years agoRelated Discussions
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Comments (2)Maximizing resale value here is putting away the plans and moving. You are planning a very expensive remodel here that you will NEVER recoup the costs from. Which is OK if you plan to live there long term or are willing to pay for the increased livability as an expense and not an "investment". But, be very very sure you completely internalize that statement before moving forward with your plans....See More1914 Bungalow (rental) - need ideas
Comments (20)I have to disagree with Lynsee. Our 1908 bugalow had a vanity in it, which I ripped out immediately with some cost to the plaster walls. The other posters are right - keep it as much in the tone of the original dwelling as possible. It doesn't matter that the stuff that is in there is not period; it would be better ro replace with period looking pieces. For our bathroom, I found a stand alone cabinet from Target that I put in the bathroom and a period medicine cabinet. I have plenty of storage. Our floors are also soft wood that has been sanded and clear coated. They are beautiful and I would NEVER cover them up with carpet. In the kitchen, I sanded down the cabinets, painted them and added period looking hardware. We also tiled the counters. The total costs was less than $500. So if you want to get the most out of this home, keep or add back the period details that give it a sense of history, some character and a reason for some one to buy it. Here is a picture of my 100 year old kitchen. Diane...See MoreMaster Bathroom Remodel - Floor plan/layout ideas needed
Comments (11)Sophie, having just gutted two bathrooms and a kitchen I would have to agree. My master closet cabinets with island were significantly more than the cost the OP wants to spend on the entire project. And that was just the master closet. However, the OP should plan the space then get bids and access what are must haves versus what she wishes. I deleted the tub because I don’t take baths and I wanted a large shower. As long as she has a tub somewhere in the house it is not an issue. At that point, she will have a better idea of what her budget should be, but based upon the space I would guess closer to $50,000...See MoreModern bungalow floor plan comments
Comments (24)The laundry, though. Stacking machines, tucked back in a closet, hard to duct, and where do you sort, fold, have the next load waiting, a basket for the current load waiting? Not only that, everyone has to carry their laundry right through the kitchen. Maybe use some of the ginormous shower for laundry (IS that a shower next to the half-bath?) Totally agree that the laundry isn't "enough" for a family of five. "Waiting loads" need space. Venting is a problem. And no bedroom is convenient to the laundry room, which means extra steps. What's the purpose of that giant shower? It does look like a perfect spot for laundry. The dryer could vent sideways to the backyard. The kids won't mind going through their sibling's party in the basement playroom, to get to the bathroom? Yes, I agree that the bathrooms would be much better placed adjacent to the bedrooms. Why not leave the bathroom where it is ... and bring all three bedrooms over to the side that's currently labeled Exercise, I think that's a bedroom, and storage? That'd allow family room space on the left, just where the stairs end ... and keep all the bedrooms and bathroom to the right. Pocket doors on bathrooms are a mistake. Pocket doors are great for doors that're often left open: pantries, laundries, mudrooms. They're awful for doors that are opened and closed frequently. They break (especially when operated by children, especially in a damp atmosphere like a bathroom), and then the problem is INSIDE the wall, so you need a pro to open up your wall. Only thing we might miss is a utility sink but we are putting one in the heated garage. My wife is a nurse and needs the laundry by the entrance so she can throw her soiled scrubs in as soon as she comes in the door. My daughter is a nurse, and she wants that set-up, so I understand where you're coming from. The problem is that if anything else is already in the wash, she has no place to drop those dirty scrubs. If I were her, I'd also like to see some sort of a hallway /pass through from the garage to the bedroom. That'd allow her to go straight into her own bathroom, where her own clothes and towels and toiletries are stored ... and let her clean up before entering the main house. As it's designed, she has to walk through the kitchen (with food!) before reaching the master bedroom. I get the goal ... but I think it could be executed better. All the windows and the fact that it's basically one room deep. Yes, nice. The kitchen is poorly laid out if you do any sort of cooking. I would highly recommend you post your kitchen and layout in the kitchen forum. This kitchen looks like it's looks over function. Agree. It's a mess from start to finish -- you have plenty of space, but it is laid out oddly. The biggest problem: the single most used item in your kitchen is your sink, and it's placed (literally) around the corner from your main work area. Definitely go to the kitchen forum and talk about function. I do like the pantry, though I'd like it better if it were better positioned nearer the garage ... so it'd be the first part of the kitchen you'd reach upon coming home. Also that between those two bedrooms, there is no sound insulation. There is a reason people put closets between bedroom walls. You could easily place the closets between the two rooms. There is no need for a pocket door between the toilet and the sink. Agree. Divided bathrooms don't help anyone "share" the bathroom. The ceilings are 12ft so the basket could go on top of the machines but good point. I had asked one of the builders we were interviewing about the laundry venting and he didn't have a concern. Concerns about this laundry: - Google tells me that stacked machines are 70-75" tall, so you're talking about storing baskets roughly 6' in the air. I couldn't reach that. Your children, whom I suppose you're teaching to do their own laundry, couldn't reach that. - Because of the weight of stacked machines and the narrow room, pulling these machines out to clean them will be essentially impossible. Failing to clean your dryer vent is a fire hazard. - No, your builder isn't concerned about venting because he doesn't have to keep the vent clean! - I really think that if you go with this minimal laundry closet, you will end up with a permanent pile of clothes on the floor just outside the laundry. Laundry is a constant chore, especially while your kids are young. You need more space, and it needs to be on an exterior wall. Agree about the size of the kids bedrooms. I had thought they were closer to 12' but see that they are shown as 10'10". My kids' rooms are 12x12, and they're ideal ... big enough for a double bed (queen bed fits, but it's tight) plus a dresser and a desk. I would only go smaller IF the kids had really big closets so they wouldn't need the dresser in the room. Do you intend to stay in this house long-term? Consider that at some point your adult children will come to visit ... with spouses. You need at least one bedroom that can hold a queen or king bed so your adult children can be comfortable when they come to visit. Other thoughts: - Your entry hall is very narrow ... only the width of a door. It doesn't seem welcoming. - Similarly, the hallway between the entry and the kitchen ... the one lined with closets ... looks narrow. - I assume you get a lot of snow ... consider those outswing doors to the patio. When the snow's piled up, you won't be able to open them. I'd vote for a set of the new gliding doors -- much nicer than the old 70s sliding doors. - I'd want an exterior door between the master and the patio too. Fire safety ... 'cause the master is far from any exterior door. And it'd just be nice. - The master bath will have so little light. If you bring the garage and theater room "forward" it would at least have the full benefit of the window over the tub. - I like the small desk area. It's in the right place, and it's "just enough". - Consider this: Bump /deepen the laundry room to use the wasted space by the front door ... you still have enough space for hooks behind the door for guest coats ... and you have a small but functional laundry room. Dryer can vent directly outdoors, saving money and making it more safe. Place the (larger) pantry directly behind the kitchen, and give it two doors. This means someone coming in from the garage can go straight to the pantry without cutting through the kitchen's work space ... but you still have the same pantry entry as before. Add a hallway from the garage entrance to the master bedroom. This'll allow your wife to go straight to the bedroom /straight to the bathroom with her dirty scrubs. She never has to walk through the family's living space being "germy". Bump the master bath over to use up that odd little indent ... this means you can now have three windows around the tub, and you'll have much more natural light in the bathroom. The vanity is larger. The oversized shower is moved to the master, where it makes sense. Instead of a toilet-in-a-closet, you have a real half-bath ... this allows you a sink next to your toilet. I'd use this for the master AND for guests (after all, you're not going to store anything private in the half bath anyway), but if you disagree, you could use the new walk-in closet as a second half-bath....See MoreRelated Professionals
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- PRO7 years ago
- 7 years agolast modified: 7 years ago
- 7 years ago
Obviously, as everyone above has said, you need to hire a competent local creative person to look at your space - I'm new to these forums, and I've been reading a lot about architectrunnerguy's design charettes, and I WANT ONE. But that's beside the point. :-)
But I did have one idea jump out at me when I looked at your post, so I thought I'd share it... You did ask for fresh ideas that you might not have considered. :-)
In your aerial photo, it appears there is an existing barn on your lot. My first thought, looking at it, was to incorporate that structure into your new plans - though probably tear it down and rebuild - but use the fact that the footprint of that barn is already a part of your lot, and build an L-shaped addition that respects the original house a little more.
Here's your Take 1, with my approximation (from the photo) of where that existing barn is:
And here's what I mean about incorporating that space into an L-shaped addition:
I feel like recessing the addition a bit on the driveway side feels a little more respectful of the original house - it could create almost a courtyard feel back there. How you parcel out the space, of course, is up to you, but a few ideas pop into my head:
1. The barn space becomes the studio. The garage goes directly behind the house. The problem with that is that the rest of your house ends up feeling like an extended corridor that wraps around the garage.
2. The barn space becomes the garage. If you leave your kitchen roughly where it is in both your ideas, though, that ends up being a long hike to carry groceries from the garage to the kitchen.
3. The barn space becomes the garage. The existing house gets relegated to entirely bedroom space, and the addition houses your studio and all of your more public spaces - so you create an entry in the "courtyard" created by the L of the addition, and place your kitchen, family room, and dining area and studio all in the new part of the house.
4. Not really related to how you use the addition, but another thought: does your wife's studio have to be square? Why not use the front of the existing house (where you're creating a game room) for her studio space? Shed have a separate entrance which could then also come in handy for a future in-law suite (or even a small income apartment). So her studio space would be the existing living and master bedrooms (about 420 sq feet, so a little smaller than you specified), and then part of the existing bedroom or dining room becomes a bathroom serving the studio (and also serving any future apartment space).
I didn't take the time to draw any of this up - that's up to you and your competent local creative person, of course - I just wanted to show you the idea of an L-shaped addition incorporating the footprint of the existing structure.
Good luck!
bruce_bentley2 thanked Quinn Eskimo - 7 years ago
I kept thinking about how an L-shaped addition connecting to a garage where the existing barn is could look, and whether it was possible to fit all the elements you want into such a space. I don't have the skills to hand draw things with any kind of accuracy, but I have software... so I went and played. :-)
A few points to keep in mind:
1. This is, in no way, shape, or form, meant to be anything other than a "hey, lets see how an L-shaped addition could look" - it isn't meant to be anything you'd ever actually build - it has WAY too many weird and wonky elements to it.
2. I have no idea how the roofs would work where the new house meets the old house. The software hacked something together, but it is extremely wonky.
3. Speaking of wonky - there's some seriously wonky stuff going on in this "plan." Weird angles in hallways, etc. I wanted the bedrooms to get natural light, and with so much width, the only way that jumped out at me to do it was to run a hallway down the middle. I'm certain there's MUCH better ways of accomplishing this - talk to your local competent, creative design professional!
3. speaking of hallways - they are an incredible waste of space. I believe a competent designer could give you everything you want in much less square footage (i.e., less money!)
So, with that said, this is the image I generated:
Original house on the left. New entry in addition, garage where the barn shows up in your aerial photo. I feel like this respects the old house, without making it look quite so much like you tacked a big new house onto the back side of a little old house.
This is the overall (rather silly) plan I drew up:
and since you can't see that very well, I broke it into pieces, starting from the back of the house:
Middle of the house (game room/porch overlaps image above - I couldn't remember how much of it I had grabbed for the back view)
and the front:
That's it for tonight. Have fun! Keep us posted on what you come up with.
bruce_bentley2 thanked Quinn Eskimo - 7 years ago
I'm back. :-) The crazy twisty angled hallway really bugged me - I just couldn't leave it like that. And since I drew it, I might as well share it. I was curious how this idea would fill your lot, so I grabbed your photo as a backdrop and tried to get the scaling close to right. There's a bunch of walls here that should be invisible, and a total lack of doors - these are just boxes representing ideas of where rooms might go.
From top of image to bottom: gameroom and garage at the back of the house.
mudroom/breezway with powder room. connecting house to garage.
Kitchen below gameroom, looking over an (undrawn) island to family and dining rooms.
Then comes master bedroom and closet, the start of the hall (opening off the family room), and the family bath.
Below that is the master bath and a bedroom.
Below that is a large storage closet for the studio, the other bedroom, and, finally, at the bottom of the image, the studio.
I also think you might be better served by putting the studio over the garage - their dimensions are roughly the same, and stacking those spaces could save you a significant amount of money. It also makes it much easier to create a side-entry garage (as I believe you said you prefer), and to separate that space in the future as an in-law or small rental apartment. I understand you'd rather keep it on one floor - I'm not sure your reasons for that, but an elevator could help. You can build it with the money you save by cutting 500 square feet off your foundation. ;-)I tried building it that way in the software, but I wasn't happy with how it was coming out, and the software could NOT figure out the roofs, which was really annoying. So I gave up and walked away. I've played with this one enough to make me happy. Time to wait and see what your competent, creative, local talent comes up with. :-)
--Quinn
bruce_bentley2 thanked Quinn Eskimo - 7 years ago
- 7 years ago
For those asking for pictures, here's one from the street:
I totally understand Virgil's (and others) concerns -- rest assured we have already spoken with a few local professionals and we're very close to hiring an experienced residential designer.
Reading over several threads the past few days (special thanks to ArchitectRunnerGuy) has helped me to understand the design process better. It has also allowed me an opportunity to see things from an architect's point of view -- I get how it could be frustrating to always have clients bringing in their suggested floor plans... what was the phrase I saw on here somewhere? It was like "bringing a fast food burger to a gourmet buffet" :-)
I think for us, attempting to draw up our own ideas was just an exercise to force us to consider all the details and the push/pull of different needs and wants... and we figured they would be a good jumping off point for discussion with whomever we hired.
As I was searching for different perspectives, I stumbled upon this site and saw some amazing threads where people were collaborating and building off each other. That's what inspired me to post our "armchair architect" layouts. Even if we hire the best architect we can find, some creative and wonderful idea may come out the collective wisdom on this site that could have otherwise been missed...
One thing ARG's other threads have helped me to understand is that even having a few sketches of ideas still doesn't effectively communicate all the reasons why to an architect. You can't just hand over those ideas and say "here, start with this, but make it 10 times better". The design charrette process he described is really the key to getting everyone on the same page. I've definitely learned better questions to ask when evaluating potential architects and designers ("Tell me about your process").
Getting back to question answering:
Rockybird - this is in Georgia. There would be windows in the master, and the spare bedroom near the studio (although in Take 2, there's barely any exterior wall space left for one -- I caught that, but was out of ideas on how to make it better). The shared bath would technically be the only interior access to the Studio -- the whole idea is for my wife to be able to have clients in the studio without them having to come into our house. The shared bath is really just for cost savings...
BTW, the current house faces north. As I've read more about the importance of south facing windows and light penetration, I see that both our ideas haven't been considerate of that and we would have some dark areas...
Quinn - Wow is all I can think of to say right now! Thank you so much for your thoughtful and creative ideas. We had not considered layouts with the studio in the front of the house - that could definitely work, and yes the studio could be an L shape. One of the only reasons we were thinking it would be new construction was also due to cost savings -- other than a few more windows and HVAC, the studio space could pretty much be the same fit and finish as a garage -- bare concrete floors, etc. So we were hoping the cost per square foot to build that could be cheaper... I like your placement for the garage and "bumping in" the L shaped addition to be more respectful of the original house. And I love that the squirrelly hallway bothered you so much you had to come back the next day and make it better. I'd love to know what software you're using... seeing exterior renders really helps me visualize what the completed addition could look like. We are in complete agreement about hallways - we tried our best to eliminate them too. As for keeping things on one level -- for the studio it's pretty important. We have a two story house now and some of my wife's equipment is upstairs. She has tons of gear (lights, backdrops, etc.) and sometimes travels to clients. She is quite tired of the multiple trips up and down the stairs... Depending on the cost savings, we would be willing to consider putting the game room and/or a 3rd bedroom and bath upstairs.
I think that's all for now. Thanks again to everyone for contributing, and I'll be sure to update this as things progress.
- 7 years agolast modified: 7 years ago
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