If this stupid tropical storm WILL EVER GO AWAY I hope they will too. It's been pouring and pouring rain for days now and I only finally dared to put my adeniums outside to let them get a little rain. Hopefully we'll get some sun for a few days.

Hyn, this is what my backyard look like right now. It just stop raining and more rain clouds are forming. I might have to move them to the bottom.

Hi pressure and slightly cooler temps, on the way!!

Hang in there, Shang. I've kept mine inside under lights while it's been pouring every day. It's been partly sunny today and only a 25% chance of rain so I put them back out. And then of course it poured for an hour! Weather report says a few sunny days coming so hopefully I get that. Gotta watch the forecast like a hawk. My new ones aren't actively growing so I definitely don't want them soaked and stay that way for days. I'll depot them and hang them over my dehumidifier if they look like they'll be stuck wet all week.

Hi all,

I was just skimming this thread; when I noticed you were discussing Jericson Pastor's methods of transplanting. I don't want to speak for him; but as far as I know (like the photos on his profile page), he soaks his plants in "Azos" for about 5 minutes. I believe his methods are also strictly organic.

I myself; now do the same. When busy, I've soaked mine for up to an hour (using 2 Tsp Azos per gallon of water).

Rob

Why on earth would you put sulfur in your sink anyway, Rob? I use a spray. That saves on wasting a lot of product, you can step outside to do it, no grit, and there's barely any odor. It still works a lot better then cinnamon.

I bought some of the powdered stuff, and during the Winter here; it get's way too cold to treat plants outside. Just rinsing the tiny amount off the spoon I would use to scoop it would leave an odor for days. I also water a lot of my plants in my Kitchen sink, so if they were treated w/ Sulfur (Why'd I spell it with a "ph" above?), It would drain down the sink.

I think I saw a picture of Sulfur in one of Laura's comments a long time ago, and went with it.

Talking about "Azos" above, I thought perhaps I should have posted a pic.

pricey stuff for 2 ounces ...

Ah, that makes way more sense Rob. Forgive my surprise but I had an image of you filling up your sink with sulfur solution for dipping entire plants at once or something. I've used sulfur powder (ph is also a correct spelling is why!) as well but found it too gritty if I wanted a liquid. The spray has quick drying coverage without the grit.

bragu - Yeah; it is expensive, but I bought a 6oz package (on sale) last time, and it will last me a year. Considering I use it in powdered form sprinkled in new soil for repots, soak my Adeniums in liquid solution before repot, and use it in my fertigation solution when watering occasionally. Oh yeah, I used a couple of Tsp when I made a batch of Biochar. A little bit goes a long way.

Rob

Hyn - I tried a bunch of applications, but I would usually put some SulFur & rooting hormone together in a plastic bag; then wrap the top of the bag around a Adenium root ball; and shake it to get even coverage.

Sulfur (correct spelling).

My Triple Star Pacific, and both my Violet Angel and the Magic Elf from my Rinoa order have all begun to produce flower buds already! Whoo! I'll get photos later when they start blooming but so far the buds are still small.

With this race, you might win Hyn. 8 days later and this is all it opens.

Oh no, you are way ahead of me, Shang. That second one is really pretty. Hopefully your other will open yet, or some later flowers will. Things happen.

This is a bit off topic but, here's a pic of my Gardenia Bonsai w/ it's first bloom of the year.

(2 hours after my Mom's observation, 4:00pm.)

Hyn, I actually just received my order of two plants from adenium center. It seems we have similar taste. Random question, have the stems straightened out a bit after being cramped in the box for two weeks?

Yes, Dain. They mostly have though they are still curved somewhat. They are quite pliable however and would be easily wired or spread. I simply hadn't done it yet.

Rob, I bet your gardenia smells wonderful! I have a few of them out in the yard that are also blooming right now and they are amazingly fragrant. I really should try some air layered cuttings with spaghnum and get some going as bonsai as well. Not that I really need MORE PLANTS but that one is truly a knockout in the fragrant department. Nice work. Once yours is finished blooming you can defoliate it to make newer leaves grow in smaller, if you want to. Or you can just keep letting it grow however it likes for a few years to thicken up the trunk and work on down sizing leaves later.

Definitely one of my favorite smelling flowers; along w/ Citrus. (My Gardenia is from a cutting about 1 yr old.)

Rob

Nice! Not bad for a yearling. I also have citrus bonsai. Lemon, Lime, Tangerine, and Orange. They do smell wonderful when they sneak a bloom but mostly I won't let them flower yet. Especially no fruiting until they are older and larger. But they sure are determined to try to flower copiously!

All right. It's early to be certain but it looks like at least one, and maybe two of my Adenium Center grafted plants may have mosaic virus. The other two haven't leafed out yet. I have them isolated away from my other plants and I'm going to get them tested. But if they have it, I am going to be one very disappointed buyer.

Some people think virused adeniums are no big deal but ... The USDA comes to inspect and license my greenhouse and they will confiscate and destroy these plants. It's not just an issue of infecting other adeniums - it causes /billions/ of dollars of damage to agricultural crops. Not only would I be unable to sell grafts of these plants but it could get my entire stock destroyed by the USDA. So it's serious.

My only other options would be to keep them isolated and tented, and frequently sprayed for insects until I can get seed. Seeds being a piss poor substitute for a top of the line grafted plant. Most virus (but not all) isn't transferred through pollen and seed but in some cases they can be. Or I can send stems off to be meristem tissue cultured in an attempt to get virus free grafting stock from these plants. But there's no guarantee that will work and every flasking and treatment costs money.

Or I could ask for the plants to be replaced but I'd want a guarantee that they wouldn't just send me more virused stock. It's a great way for an exporting nursery to get blacklisted with customs inspectors of many countries that can ban their import.

Anyway, not happy to pay a premium price for what are supposed to be premium plants only to have them leafing out looking so obviously infected. I might expect this from some random Ebay seller but Adenium Center is supposed to be reputable so testing first, then if the test results are positive, I'll have to have a chat with them. I'll be speaking with my local agricultural extension office this week.

So very dissapointed for you Patty :'(

Hyn Patty, sorry to here that there may be a virus issue with your Adenium Centre plants. I can see you are well aware the 'mosaic virus' is not something you want to mess with. (I am assuming you mean the 'cucumber mosaic virus'.) It only takes one little sap sucker insect to spread this disease & the potential damage to your other garden plants & the agricultural industry. Please let us all know the results of testing when you get the results back.

This disease (cucumber mosaic virus) is one of the reasons Australia has such strict quarantine measures & why we're not allowed to import plants. We are told in Australia that this disease can be spread through seed including Adenium seed. This disease was first found in the Northern Territory, Australia & has since spread to Queensland (Bundaberg & Charters Towers) - Not near Brisbane.....

Here is an excerpt from an Australian article on cucumber mosaic virus and a photo of the virus on Adenium leaves. This might be of interest to other Aussies, so I thought I'd post it here..... Hyn Patty, thanks for taking the time to make others aware of this.

What is Cucumber Green Mottle Mosaic Virus, and why is it so serious?

Cucumber mosaic virus (aka Cucumber Green Mottle Mosaic virus, and CMMV) affects plants belonging to the cucumber family, the Cucurbitaceae, or more affectionately as ‘cucurbits’. Pumpkin, zucchini, cucumber, melon, squash and luffa, some of our favourite home grown cucurbits.

This virus has a deservedly bad reputation because it affects more kinds of plant than any other virus. Until recently, it did not exist in Australia, but an outbreak in the Northern Territory has become out of control. Apart from affecting all cucurbits, it also affects plants from other, unrelated species, including banana, bean, beetroot, capsicum, carrot, celery, lettuce, spinach, tomato, Narcissus, including daffodil and jonquil, Desert Rose (Adenium obesum) and a wide range of annuals and weeds.

Here is the plant I'm most concerned about, though I have my eye on this one as well from another seller too.

It is a serious issue. There are also more than one mosaic virus, Rachel, and more than one has been found in adeniums in recent years. CMV is certainly one of them. Things like this are why we need to be very careful to dip our tools in isopropyl alcohol between every plant (or even every cut) when grafting or pruning, washing our hands, even changing our clothes if we think we might have worked with anything that could possibly be suffering communicable pathogens of any kind. Virus, fungal or bacterial, mites, etc. And why you want to quarantine new arrivals for a good while to observe them.

As it is I will get them tested and if they test positive I will destroy them. I've already looked up the USDA requirements for quarantine and I can't provide such a facility here as it's too complicated. But I will be demanding refunds (including shipping) on these plants and spreading the word around about these two sellers if these plants test positive.

Plant viruses cause /more/ than $30 -billion- dollars a YEAR in agricultural crop losses globally, not even counting the ornamental flower trades. People who don't take this seriously aren't being responsible and should not be allowed to export.

Thanks for the added info on other mosaic viruses that can infect Adeniums. I hope your plants do not have any mosaic virus, but if they do I would definitely be contacting the seller in regards to a full refund. I think it's good that you are reminding people that they should quarantine new plants from their other plants for a while. Good luck with everything and keep us posted on the results. :)

Besides Cucumber Mosaic Virus (CMV) there is Tobacco Mosaic Virus (TMV), Sugarcane Mosaic Virus (mostly effects grasses), cauliflower mosaic virus (mostly effects plants in the mustard family), Lettuce Mosaic Virus, Maize Mosaic Virus, and several more. Both CMV and TMV have been documented in adeniums, as well as a few other kinds of virus.

Contrary to popular belief, unlike humans, plants do not get over these viruses. Once they have it, they always have it and can pass it on even if they are not displaying the symptoms. Often these only show up when the plants are stressed, particularly in hot summer, then seemingly go away. And while we have been making progress in science to produce effective plant vaccines for people and animals, I'm not aware of any of them being used to cure /plants/ of their own ailments yet.

All of which cause plants to perform below peak, often ruining flower buds, flowers, and even seeds. While usually not transferred through pollen, /some/ viruses can be transferred through seed. Anyway, it makes for an interesting read. As I grow and hybridize gesneriads and some orchids (among other things) I've been reading up on plant viruses for years, but there's always more to learn.

Hyn - omg I'm shocked what Im reading. I wish you all the best in treating them and not have to destroy them. If I've seen that on any of my seedlings, I would've thought it was a variegated species. I think the quarantine tent would be good, as you can isolate infected plants and keep away as far as possible from other stock, or unfortunately, destroy to protect healthy stock.

Wish you all the best!

There is no treatment, Agartta. The USDA will require I destroy them if the results are positive. There is no other option within my financial means at this time except -maybe- mirco tissue propagation.

I will look into the costs of getting meristem cloning of buds, which -usually- do not contain virus, but as said that's not a full proof guarantee that'll work either. The problem will be finding a phyto laboratory in the USA that works with adenium cultures. I do not have the facilities here to attempt it myself as it's much more involved than macro tissue culture or seed flasking.

I am hopeful the virus tests will come back negative but that also means I may just have to keep trying other kinds of viral tests until I have run through all the most likely ones. Ugh. If I have to test more than one or two plants, that can get expensive.

Leaf variegation in adeniums doesn't look the same as mosaic virus, btw. It follows a different pattern and usually has actual white or yellow border areas without chlorophyll pigment. You can learn the tell the two apart at a quick glance. The trickier problem would be if you have a variegated plant that /also/ has mosaic or other kinds of virus, then you might not be able to tell so easily by looking. That's what tests are for. My variegated 'Star of Top' for example? I probably can't tell by looking at it unless the leaves or the flowers displayed deformities, or strange streaks and blotches on the flowers themselves the hybrid isn't known to have.

I hope the seeds from AdeniumCenter are ok, I do have seeds from tham that sprouted. There is a business near where I live, they import rare suculents, cactus and adeniums, I was talking to the man last week and he told me he lost all Adenium shipment container for just 1 plant that the quarantine found something. It is heart breaking they get all burned. I think you should be reimbursed by AdeniumCenter, all the money you spent on the infected plants

He's lucky he only lost the shipment. If it had gotten to his greenhouse he could have lost his entire business. Anyway, I won't bother the Adenium Center until I have a viral confirmation. It wouldn't be fair to them. I did lump most of my plants together for a single photograph last week or so that worries me, though they are probably fine. But all the grafts I have attempted using those plants will also have to be destroyed if the tests come back positive.

Here's the new leaves on the second plant from Adenium Center that is also leafing out. You can see it is also mottled on the top leaf and looks to have virus as well. ;( Unfortunately if even one plant of theirs has it, chances are very high that many of their plants are infected. So /far/ none of my Mr. Ko Seedlings nor my Rinoa plants show any sign of virus - yet.

Omg, that would be such a big loss, devastating. So sorry you have to go through this. I hope all tests will be negative, fingers crossed. AdeniumCenter need to know what they are selling. Noone wants to buy the infected plants.

Wow Patty, that's kinda terrible. Thanks for bringing awareness, I would not even recognize the problem, to me it looks like variegated leaves or some kind of deficiency.

Hi Patty, hope the result is negative. I have one ade with such patchy leaves, very obvious in its new leaves but only slightly when the leaves get older. Have always thought its just the leaf genetics for this plant...

Unfortunately for you, Tan, 'genetics' is probably not at play in that case. You should keep it away from your other plants and get it virus tested. It is perfectly normal for virus to only show up in new, young leaves or in stressed plants, especially in summer.

Thankfully viral tests can cost as low as only a few dollars per test but you do need to do some research or consult with your local agricultural agents about /which/ tests are the most applicable so you can most wisely choose which ones to use. And you may have to do several tests.

If the tests were $5 per use each, if you have to run through several kinds, that will add up. Still that's a cheap cost compared to the virus spreading through your collection and getting people really pissed off at you if you share plants with others.

The average home grower might not need to care if they do not sell or trade, or even give away plants whether or not they have virus. You can still enjoy them and their flowers! But, you risk spreading the virus to other kinds of plants and escaping your property to infect your area. Which is why it's such a big deal at all.

Hyn, we're all pulling for you and hoping for the best. Thanks for the information and education. Please do keep us informed. How long does it take to get the results back?

Tyler

Google is your friend, Dain. You can do your own research to narrow down the most likely viruses that effect adeniums based on the symptoms displayed, and what has previously been documented to be found in testing of adeniums. Then you can order the tests for yourself. You can purchase single use tests or packages that let you test for the same viruses several times over so you can test more plants at a time. But the test kits can get expensive. They are however very practical for greenhouses so if you call around to some of your local growers, they /might/ be willing to test material for you. Maybe. But they may also want you to keep your plant material far away from their stock!

Alternatively you can take any plant you are concerned about to your local agricultural extension office, or call or email them to ask for advice. In the USA, most counties in every state have agricultural extension offices. In /some/ cases they will do free tests but viral testing they usually have to send leaves away to a laboratory. They can aid you in narrowing down which tests you are most likely to need to try and that can save you time and money. They can also visually confirm by looking at the leaves (or photos of the leaves) whether or not they think you have something to be concerned about. Most other countries have their own ag offices of various kinds that can do the same thing.

If for example I get my worst plant tested and after a couple of tests, let's say it tests positive for CMV. You could save a lot of time and money by trying that test first.

For accurate test results however, you HAVE to test a leaf that is showing the virus symptoms because those are the leaves with the higher concentrations of active virus! Leaves that look good may actually throw negative test results even if the plant is infected because virus levels in that particular sample may be low at that given time. So when suspect plants are quarantined, the USDA /requires/ them to be tested at least twice over a one year span before they'll release the plants.

This is why many people who have plants with virus /think/ that their plants get better and recover. Because the plant can test positive and then later test negative. But scientific journals make it very clear that there is no evidence that plants can shed a virus and and be rid of it. It may happen on rare occasions but is not the norm without heat treating plants and doing micro meristem propagation. So once you get a positive, the plants are to be destroyed.

The good news is that there are vaccines for viruses being made from plants! Unfortunately there aren't, as far as I can tell so far, any vaccines /for/ plants against viral infections but I think that is only a matter of time. It wouldn't do any good for plants already infected (I assume), but growers would have the option of inoculating 'mother' plants which then would be reproduced through grafts, tissue culture, used for hybridizing, etc. With some effort then certain viruses could virtually eliminated from specific plant populations. But alas, that's still something that is being worked on and is not yet available to us.

Agartta, I thought you might like to know what I found after doing some more research on the mosaic virus. This virus is now in Western Australia. It was reported as found on several farms/properties in March 2017 this year. I will try to post a link for anyone that wants to read it.

https://www.agric.wa.gov.au/cgmmv?page=0%2C0

If you click on page 2,3 etc you can read more information about what these farms are now going through. This is one of the reasons why quarantine between our states is as important as quarantine from overseas.

Rachel - thanks for letting me know. I read it, it is shocking. I have to watch my plants caefully.

Hyn, you forgot FrMV, which affects the plumeria ... Another beauty most of us collect.

This is a very serious issue. Ugh! Who needs plant viruses? I've read over 1,000 have been identified. And, that there is a 5% chance of transmission via pollen. To add insult to injury, the human gut can harbor plant viruses found in fruits and vegetables, if consumed ... We become their hosts. How's that for an eye-opener?

Many of the larger USA universities receive USDA grants to operate in-house agricultural cooperative extensions. They provide services to the general public at little or no cost. I sent some leaf samples to Clemson State University a few yeas ago and they identified a pest for me and made recommendations for eradicating them via bio-control measures ... at no cost to me. Perhaps they can help with this issue.

All the best,

Maria Elena

Hi everyone this has blown me away HYN I wish the best for you and hope the test show negative. I did read something that seeds can transfer the virus is the odds very high as I buy a lot of seeds and I don't want to destroy any ones lively hood. if it is high odds in will stop buying seeds.i can understand how easy it is to spread unwanted things I had clean D/R one order from a large dealer for root stock bang spider mite 5 years later still fighting. Hyn we are behind you 100% if the plants are infected the forum should get together and black ban not just this supplier but any that has shonky work practice .it's not our $50 $600 we are talking about its people lively hoods and millions of dollars of agricultural crops it is hard enough to make a buck thanks people of this forum for bringing this to my attention I will be more vigilant best of luck Hyn .

My seeds from AdeniumCenter just sprouted. Im am more aware now and watch seedlings more carefully.

If any plants are found with the mosaic virus, whats the best way to destroy them? Burning?

Admittedly I'm learning more about this as a go myself, doing a lot of reading. Some of these questions I simply can't answer as I do not know yet. I've never had to destroy plants that are infected with virus before but burning or composting with lime are both likely.

At any rate I'm not bothering the seller until I know firmly one way or another. Having lived in China and knowing the supreme lack of sanitation among people (like not washing hands, not using soap) then it can't be surprising if basic sanitation isn't practiced with handling of plants either.

Once I am armed with more information, if a virus is ID'd I will likely invest in a multi-use test kit for myself. Then I can check suspect plants here or there. In the grower's defense, if the plant isn't obviously displaying symptoms of the virus, how would they (or us) ever know it was infected? To my dismay I have learned that testing a leaf on an infected plant that isn't currently showing the virus can throw a negative test result. So for all I know, all of my plants may be infected but symptoms I can /see/ may only pop up once in a while every few years.

Very likely until such time as growers can inoculate plants /before/ they are selected to be reproduced, this may be a loosing battle we can do little against if we wish to grow adeniums. But that doesn't mean I will sit around and knowingly harbor plants that I know are carriers, alas.

If you scroll just past the halfway point, you'll come to eradication techniques.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-3059.2009.02042.x/full

Nice, thank you. Though only some of those apply to virus - many of those deal with other plant pathogens like fungal or bacterial. What is required here not only varies by country but also by state within the USA.

To the Aussies, in case the above articles I 'linked' has confused anyone please note: From what I've read, the cucumber mosaic virus has NOT been found in Adeniums in Australia. The article mentions that it has been found in adeniums - (in other parts of the world)

The virus so far in Australia has only affected agricultural crops/farms in selected states. Our government/bio security agencies are doing everything to stop the spread of this disease.

Pete & Agartta, adenium seed can carry the virus, but the risk is very low - hence the reason why we are still allowed to import adenium seed into Australia. We are not allowed to import Adenium plants grafted or otherwise because the risk is significantly higher,

You do not need to stop importing seed but may prefer to stay away from supplliers from high risk countries eg: Thailand. That is your choice.

I agree with Rachel - from what I have read, most plant viruses have an extremely low rate of transfer from the mother plant to the seed and even lower (almost non-existent) though pollen. But there are a few specific viruses that's less true. All of my seedlings were much stressed over winter from my lack of watering them and forced them dormant even though they were /tiny/ and yet not one of them ever showed signs of mosaic virus at any point that I noticed. They are probably all right.

In other good news, so far all of my Rinoa grafted plants also look very clean. Though only time will tell if they remain so. It's mostly just my Adenium Center order I'm concerned about. I really want a good purple, at least one, to use in my own hybridizing. If I can keep it isolated say in my mother-in-law's basement well away from all other plants, I may be able to get seed from those two plants before I have to get rid of them. I certainly do not want to risk them infecting anyone else's collection or any others in my own.

Incidentally it's the two reds, not the two purples from Adenium Center that have the funky marked leaves so far. Neither of my purples have leafed out yet but I'm worried if even one is infected then all four may be.

Thanks Rachel much appreciated