As far as I know it's the moisture, weather conditions and flowers that stay closed for too long that cause the botrytis mold to form. Balling is a term that can be used to describe a flower not opening. The one you are describing many call bulheading.

Where I live one must be careful of flowers with too many petals. The weather here can be a mixed bag. The only for sure is high humidity with most years filled with nightly dew on everything. Roses like Belinda's Dream, Jasmina, Earth Angel and so on are nearly impossible to grow here. They just can't open in our weather.

Then there are roses that are just prone to bulheading Jolie is an excellent example. While others with the same sized flowers shape and amount of petals (Cream Veranda) do fairly well all season.

So yes Belinda's Dream is well known for balling in weather like mine. I also ordered MA without researching well enough. I'm afraid that when she finally sets buds they well stand little chance of opening here. It was sad to me just how much money I wasted before understanding my weather. The beautiful Jasmine was a great example. I had 3 of her one each at the leg of a tripod. She grew very well and was extremely healthy. Those large gorgeous many petaled flowers were never able to open. They stayed all balled up till they turned brown and mushy. Poor little roses had to leave in their 4th year as things never got any better.

Belinda's Dream was a dud for me. I gave four own root, gallon size bushes, purchased from Chamblee's, four years to prove themselves.

They balled a lot. Thin petals and too many of them (normally high petal count is an asset, but not in BD's case), getting wet and clamping onto each other was the cause, IMHO, like wet tissue papers will adhere to one another.

Growth was wimpy. I never got a cane over 20" tall.

Winter survival was poor, even with heavy protection.

I believe it is a dry/warm climate rose, where it seems to excel.

Moses

I was given a Belinda's dream by a rose society member who mentioned it balled a lot for her. Her first round of buds have opened just fine , not perfect but my arbor accidentally fell on it and may have damage some buds so I'm not sure whose to blame. My clotilde soupert also is a mess . I knew it when I planted it but hoped for the best! It's currently on my list to watch and probably replace. The fragrance is so incredible I don't know if I can remove it ! Lol it's ugly up close though , with a 75 percent of blooms looking bad.

Patty,

I'm glad you gave a good report on Cream Veranda not balling up. I put in two this spring. Although they are quite small gallons from Chamblee's, the flowers produced so far are opening nicely, and more fragrant than I expected. It's heartening to know I can expect decently opening flowers, too. I garden in a humid, "Ball Up Alley," part of the country.

You never know when you add a side anecdote in a response, as you did about Cream Veranda, who may benefit from it, as I have. Thanks!

Moses

Thank you everyone for your helpful replies!

It makes sense that this is really caused more by the rain and humidity combined with the structure of the flower, rather than being caused by the resulting fungus.

I suppose BD is just not a rose for my climate, which is a shame because she grew so quickly and with such nice foliage, however I am not in love with the color of her blooms so I am not THAT sad about it. I also have Clotilde Soupert and while it has also had it's fair share of balling, it seems to have been better off than Belinda, probably because CS produces a lot more flowers that BD so a few ruined here and there aren't quite as disappointing as when you wait on single buds for what seems like weeks only to have them ruined... However we will see if I change my tune on that by end of the summer as last year I planted Clotilde in a very prominent spot in the garden, I'll have to monitor her and see if she balls more than she blooms, she may end up being a dud for me too.

& wouldn't you know it, I just unpacked a freshly delivered Earth Angel from Roses Unlimited, so hopefully I have better luck, with her as well, but if not at least my money went to a good business. (I love RU)

I thought I read at some point about rose "supplements" that help with petal structure, possibly a calcium? Does anyone know if this type of thing is just bunk or if it really helps strengthen the petals?

I very much love "bowl shaped" roses such as Clotilde Soupert, so I hope this type of rose form isn't completely out of the realm of growable roses for me...

does anyone have any suggestions of roses with this bowl shape that are more resistant to balling?

If the weather is bad enough, anything can happen! I think we kinda need to be like farmers and know that some years are better than others.

This year has not been so great, Caramella is balling and so is Quietness. In the last five years neither has done that... at all.

OTOH my Mystic Beauty (akin to SDLM) is not balling. Go figure.

KnoxRose,

My Earth Angel is great. It t grew like a weed its first year, last year, producing several nice canes and laterals, one of which grew to 6'! It wintered over with no protection and was tip hardy. Spring pruning left it reduced to 5 nice, 10" canes. It is now just under 2' tall, full of buds which I estimate should start blooming before Memorial Day.

Last year it bloomed better than expected for a first year, gallon size bush from Chamblee's. The flower is small, about 3.25", very cupped in clusters of about 5 buds. It opens extremely slowly, usually a good attribute, but this trait may be a balling up initiator. Time will tell. I really did not experience balling up last year, though. The fragrance is strong.

Its canes are not vertical, a bit spreading, but this may change as it matures, or can be corrected somewhat by pruning to a center facing bud.

All in all, I think it is going to be a great rose, better than some of the other newer Kordes roses I have tried.

Moses

Belinda's Dream does great for me, sometime I see balling, but not very much. In Florida we're hot and humid, very seldom cool and humid, which is the weather that causes balling. Belinda's Dream is one of the more popular roses in my region. Once again proving how important a region is to rose variety selection.

Clotilde Soupert , bush form, balls a lot for me, sometime I miss the whole spring bloom season for it due to balling. I have much less problem with Clotilde Soupert , Cl. I'm not sure why as the flower form is quite similar, maybe because it flower higher from the ground it dries out faster? As soon as the nights start staying warmer, balling stops.

I find thrips can contribute to balling.

I took some advice from StrawChicago for any rose that has many petals. I have a Clotilde shrub. I experienced balling early in summer. Then I gave more calcium (in the form of gypsum) and magnesium (Epsom salt) which according to her research are needed for petal formation and are leashed out of soil by rain. After the next set of buds developed it rained for a week over summer and no balling from Clotilde. Not a very scientific experiment, but it might be worth trying.

Totoro how much per shrub did you use ? I will try that . I don't want to get rid of clotilde as she takes up a lot of space and would leave a big gap . I just don't look too long at it ! Ha

Knox rose I also bought earth angel . Can't wait to see it take off! I'm a sucker for those type of blooms as well . I just want them to work out so badly despite our crazy humidity

My Auguste Renoir didn't open a single bloom for me in 3 years in the ground due to balling. I didn't know it was prone to balling at the time I purchased it. Last year I dug it out and stuck it in a pot with a bunch of gypsum in the bottom. He bloomed beautifully for me last year. I added more gypsum this year and am waiting to what happens. Mine are just leafing out now. I believe if you supplement with calcium you also need to supplement with potassium as they affect each other. I'm going to add a handful of lava rocks to add potassium. This is just my experience.....

I believe Straw recommended 1/4 cup of gypsum to 1/8 cup of sulfate of potash for preventing blackspot and making stems and leaves more resistant to bugs, but it probably depends on what you use for calcium and potassium just as long as you keep the ratio of Ca to K (much more details in her posts which she linked to her profile). Then I just follow the instructions for Epsom salt for the magnesium and I have the balling and the shiny leaves issue covered too.

If your rose likes alkaline (she says many of the Meilland roses and modern roses bred with tap water) then use dolomitic lime instead (dolomitic also has magnesium) of gypsum.

I try to repeat this before or during periods of heavy rain.

I add both gypsum and dolomitic lime to every planting hole now for calcium and as a pH buffer. I also check the pH first whenever I am trying to figure out what is wrong with my plant and before I diagnose nutrient deficiency or excess problems.

I don't have issues with balling (Belinda and Clotilde are both good here!), but my soil is very high in calcium, I wonder if that's why. Last year in the OMG blue cups thread, seems like someone mentioned no more balling once the thrips were gone, so that may be a contributor as well.

Regarding frequency of this treatment, Straw recommended 2 time for a dry year, 4 times max for a very rainy year (monthly is too much).

Calcium excess causes other nutrient deficiency like potassium, magnesium, zinc, iron.

I should also add that whether to give gypsum or lime has a lot to do with your soil composition and pH. Straw has alkaline clay which naturally buffers her acidic rain so she gives gypsum. But my soil is acidic and heavily amended with compost so I should probably use lime (even for the acid loving roses) instead of gypsum especially since all this acidic rain is supposedly hard on own roots in loamy soil.

I also try to put a layer of my native clay on top of my amended loamy soil to provide the minerals to buffer the acid rain as I often get a lot of rain in the summer too.

My first venture into container rose gardening has already been very disappointing and frustrating😢. Does anyone know if I’m experiencing what’s called rose balling?

Do you have a picture?

@KnoxRose z7

Maybe you have your answer since it’s been sevetal years now. However, there are several reasons & remedies to balling.

Only certain roses with big buds/many petals are prone to balling. Mme Anisette & Belindas Dream have lots of petals/big buds. However, your rainy weather can cause the balling at that point. When rain or humidity gets buds wet the petals get soaked and ball sometimes. Moisture can cause balling at first.

However, if the rain is a short spell followed by a baking sun that only bakes a few outer petals if a bud-if the inside petals are healthy-you can just peel off the baked crunchy outer petals and let the bud open normally in the sun. Then there is no fungus so it is healthy to keep the blooming bud.

Another scenerio is if bud is soaked all the way through then baked. If it is a perfectly all dry crunchy bud tgen prune off & dispose sanitarily. Again, it may not have any fungus on it.

On the other hand, if the bud has been moist for a few days it may be soaked all the way through too much. If you find all the petals are slimy(which you say they are not) , but if they were slimy then it is a fully damaged bud , may have fugus started, and needs removed & sanitarily disposed of. These are conditions that cause fungus like Botrytis to get started. No worries as seems you don’t have fungus. Fungus damaged buds should always be removed/disposed sanitarily. Botrytis is a fungus caused by excessive moisture for too long a period, but doesn't hapoen all the time on balling roses. Balling is the result of the bud being too moist from rain or humidity, but fungus sometimes follows if bud is moist for too long, only.

Other ways to prevent balling is move your roses to sunnier drier locations, prune them in vase shapes to provide better circulation, and space them away from being over crowded with plants providing better air circulation.

Sometimes it is best to consider selecting roses that work best in your climate, not prone to balling, unless the balling doesnt happen too often.

@Lilyfinch z9a Murrieta Ca

I read your Clotilde Soupert was balling. in CA. I had a lot of rain and humidity last summer in NY-every other day even, but loved Clotilde Soupert who did fine. I had her in my most sunny-afternoon sunny spot in the garden-she never balled. Do you have lots of humidity-a coastal location or rain? Is there a really dry hot spot in your garden you can move Clotilde Soupert to? Clotilde S is just one of those roses w/ lots of petals prone to balling so if she’s kept drier or in more sunny location-she can do well.She’s so pretty! .