People who travel more frequently than I do likely have other explanations. Perhaps the reason is that airlines expect that there will be some "no shows," leaving empty seats if they don't overbook. The "no shows," although they have a ticket for a specific flight that they have missed, don't have to purchase a new ticket for another flight because the airline will accommodate them on another flight with their original ticket, perhaps with a penalty fee. Is this in fact the case that "no shows" get to fly anyway?

stacey, I think perhaps what you're saying could very well be what's involved. When a ticket is sold to a sporting event or a theater, the buyer is welcome to come or not come, there's no further obligation of the ticket seller and normally no refunds or exchanges are allowed. Airlines redeem unused tickets for changed reservations (even I believe those sold as non-refundable, when a processing fee is paid). They overbook to account for the expected no-shows.

No one deserves rude handling and the security people have some culpability but this guy's behavior was erratic and unwarranted and provoked the response. Not that it matters, but this guy's history is not one of an upstanding citizen with integrity. He's a convicted felon, having perpetrated a drugs for sex scheme. His medical license was revoked for 10 years and was only reinstated in the past few years. Oh, and he also started yelling that he was being removed only because he was Chinese.

One article I read, not sure if true or not, said the "i need to see patients" comment was BS and not true. Even if true, every passenger has a schedule, everyone has obligations in their lives and for him to suggest that his was more important than anyone else's is arrogant crap that deserves to be ignored . I think he knew full well what he was doing and what the result would be. Oh, and how come he didn't wipe the blood off his face or straighten his glasses?

Drugs for sex conviction

A large number of airline tickets are non-refundable or only part of the cost of the ticket can be refunded depending on the situation. So why overbook if they're getting their money either way? Nothing but greed. I feel we pay too much for plane tickets to begin with and then there also being a chance of being bumped off? People schedule things in advance and have to take time off of work in some cases. If we screw up we have to buy another ticket. If they screw up we still pay the price. It's just unacceptable.

Chisue- you're correct. You paid for that seat on that plane, at that time, on that day. There are no excuses for what happened.

Someone decided to delete a previous posting I made, and perhaps it's an individual user who did so. It remains visible to me. I believe it's fully compliant with this site's Ts and Cs. I'll try it again.

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stacey, I think perhaps what you're saying could very well be what's involved. When a ticket is sold to a sporting event or a theater, the buyer is welcome to come or not come, there's no further obligation of the ticket seller and normally no refunds or exchanges are allowed. Airlines redeem unused tickets for changed reservations (even I believe those sold as non-refundable, when a processing fee is paid). They overbook to account for the expected no-shows.

No one deserves rude handling and the security people have some culpability but this guy's behavior was erratic and unwarranted and provoked the response. Not that it matters, but this guy's history is not one of an upstanding citizen with integrity. He's a convicted felon, having perpetrated a drugs for sex scheme. His medical license was revoked for 10 years and was only reinstated in the past few years. Oh, and he also started yelling that he was being removed only because he was Chinese.

One article I read, not sure if true or not, said the "i need to see patients" comment was BS and not true. Even if true, every passenger has a schedule, everyone has obligations in their lives and for him to suggest that his was more important than anyone else's is arrogant crap that deserves to be ignored . I think he knew full well what he was doing and what the result would be. Oh, and how come he didn't wipe the blood off his face or straighten his glasses?

Drugs for sex conviction

I was one of those no shows just recently so they made double on my seat. My ticket was non-refundable as it was a special rate. Needed to go to an oral surgeon and they were going to try to get me in sooner so I didn't cancel but didn't happen! :(. Had a split tooth...ugh! I like what Chisue said "you can bump me up, but not off!"

ChiSue, when you fly first class you are paying for and reserving a specific seat. However, for folks who fly coach class, many airlines no longer assign specific seats at the time of booking. Therefore, you've only paid for and reserved a seat on the plane. Nonetheless, if you have paid for and reserved a seat on the plane, you are entitled to a seat on the plane.

I heard on NPR this evening that when one books a seat on a flight, they are entering into that airline's 'Contract of Carriage'. So, whatever terms and conditions are included in that contract dictate what rights the airline has and what rights the passenger has.

I have never read any airline's 'Contract of Carriage'.

NPR also said that when booking international flights, book on the foreign carrier because all other countries/foreign airlines have better terms for the passenger than US airlines have.

This is the best explanation I have found in laymen terms. The flight that the so called doctor was on was not overbooked. The storms caused a reorganization of flights and and a crew had to be there for the plane. Before someone pipes in with "why couldn't they drive?" would you want a tired pilot who spent 5 hours on the road piloting the plane you were on? I'm not even sure it would be allowed. This should be a non story. The man threw a tantrum. His tantrum didn't work. Similar to the "poor" teens who weren't allowed to fly because they weren't dressed according to the dress code for friends and family. Much ado about nothing. DH used to be employed by the airlines. There are rules in place for good reason. People complain about the cost of air travel and then complain about the rules in place to keep those costs down. This "doctor" could have guaranteed his seat by not going for the cheapest seat on the plane.

https://techcrunch.com/2017/04/11/overbooking/

Funny that Delta Airlines has managed to find a logical and 'less invasive' solution to avoid the problems inherent with overbooking. Seems to me the others should consider following suit.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/making-sense/how-delta-masters-the-game-of-overbooking-flights/

If a crew is late (this includes pilot, first officer as well as flight attendants), then whatever flight or flights they are scheduled for cannot leave. That's why they cannot be removed from the flight. It will just cause more problems.

I don't get the quotation marks around doctor or the phrase "so called doctor". He IS a doctor. And digging up dirt about him was unnecessary. And that was't the reason he was chosen. According to the witness reports I read, he was not belligerent, but the person who was removing him was. And why is a 69 year-old man dragged down the aisle by his arms? Why wasn't this all done before the plane was even boarded? Why didn't United up the incentive until they got enough volunteers? The way they did it had to be WAY more expensive.

The force used was unacceptable.

It seems that he and his wife originally did agree to give up their seats. Except when they realized that the next flight out was the next day, they turned around and boarded the plane anyway. At that point they refused to give up their seats. (backtracking on the agreement)

Why didn't United know before the plane was fully boarded that they required four seats for their own crew? It takes what, maybe 20 to 30 minutes from first call for boarding, to last call? So I need to believe United had no way of knowing say 35 minutes in advance of their need for four seats on that flight -- that one and only flight? Sounds pretty sloppy to me.

Back to the original question -- I understand airplanes are an expensive use of our natural resources, so it makes sense to fly with as many seats filled as possible. And airline flights are so inter-connected, a delay here impacts plans there, etc. So, it's not exactly the same as a sporting or entertainment event. But, that's the best they can do??

Frustrating all around.

Was there once some public good in permitting airlines to overbook? The sole benefit today is to the airlines. Other nations' laws do not permit this 'bait and switch' by airlines. Maybe some reform could come from this egregious incident on United.

While I know they exist, I have never bought an airline ticket that was not sold to me for an assigned seat, within a specific section/cabin, on a specific flight, on a specific date.

Bystanders on the United flight in question have stated that the passenger objected to being removed. He resisted giving up the seat for which he had a ticket. Then the Aviation Police -- whatever their duties or qualifications are -- manhandled him, pulling him out of his seat, injuring his head, and dragging him by his arms down the aisle. One of the 'officers' was reportedly laughing.

This morning's news says the man is being treated for his injuries in a Chicago area hospital. He has retained counsel. There are two letters to the editor in the Chicago Tribune, complaining about the passenger's treatment -- which is actually the airline's treatment -- which is being excused in part because it was 'legal'.

I want it to be *illegal* to deliberately overbook.

Airlines aren't a public service, they're businesses. They operate to provide a service profitably. They're heavily regulated now as it is.

Eliminating overbooking is easy, simply make tickets non-refundable and non-exchangeable. Would people be happier losing money instead of losing a seat?

The way to avoid overbooking is make it easier to change a reservation, without penalties. That'll get rid of no shows. I book no less than 50 trips per year. Southwest is by and large the best at this.

But rob, doesn't that than eliminate the possibility of getting double for the seat?

Nope. Why would it? You can't book two seats for yourself. You have to give one up to get the next one? Some airlines already don't charge.

Best commentary I've seen.
https://thepilotwifelife.wordpress.com/2017/04/11/i-know-youre-mad-at-united-but-thoughts-from-a-pilot-wife-about-flight-3411/

Personally I would not want to be on a plane with that loose cannon. Pity they can't put him on a no fly list. Maybe he'll dig himself deeper with his drama and his lawsuit against security for doing their job. One could only hope.

Southwest does have liberal change policies that many find attractive. Many love SW and many don't. I'm in the second group, I avoid it whenever possible. On the heavily traveled routes in California, they're notorious for running late and cancelling flights. If your trip requires some certainty of timeliness, it's not usually the best choice.

Everybody's all up in arms about why the flight crew couldn't have rented a car. Why couldn't the DOCTOR have rented a car???

I think the pilot's wife summed it up pretty succinctly. Could you really see yourself behaving as that man did? I think not. There ARE two sides to every story. Someone mentioned the aviation police laughing while dragging the man off. I only heard it once (too disturbing to watch a second time) but it seemed to me that it was laughter coming from a passenger.

elmer/snidely, Instead of attacking my suggested airline, why not follow the spirit of my post and address the point of moving your day/time of flight without penalty? That'd be more helpful.

rob, I believe eld6161 was saying with "getting double for the seat", that the airline would collect the nonrefundable money from the no-shows, then collecting $$ again for the same seat from a standby, or use it for one of the paying overbooked group.

I don't think Mr. Fudd's comment about Southwest is supported by facts anyway. Southwest is around #4-5 in on time percentage and low cancellation rankings. They also were first, or tied for first, in customer satisfaction last year. I live in California, and Southwest is my first choice for many reasons.

rob, I wasn't attacking you, I have a different experience and opinion. Just 3 weeks ago, a family member was late to a job interview because of a morning SW flight being cancelled. I myself was delayed on a flight about 5 weeks ago.

I've never liked SW and avoid them whenever I can. About 3 weeks ago, I took an unusual routing to avoid flying SW and it turned out to be a good decision because someone I know was delayed with a SW booking on the same day.

All flights mentioned were to/from California locations. Y'all are welcome to any view you want but of course everyone's experiences can be different and these are just my most recent ones. They're consistent with what's happened to me in the past with SW and that's why I try to avoid using it.

Still avoiding the TRUE topic. Just say if you agree or disagree waiving fees could help them with empty seats.

8500 reviews give it a combined 4.5 out of 5 stars, so obviously SouthWest isn't some horrible airline despite your personal disdain.

Regardless, I only used it as an example in what i consider is the airlines biggest obstacle in passenger seating problems. They charge an arm and leg for every little change. Why, if I don't like a shirt when I get home, may I take it back and get a new one and pay the difference, or get refunded, but that doesn't apply to airlines? Why do they get all the power? Ok, so you think everyone should suck it up. But why? A lot of people don't agree with you. A reasoned response that doesn't address how you still dislike SouthWest won't be a reasoned response.

Waiving fees will cause more empty seats from no-shows and will increase their desire to overbook.

Airlines reduced what was an "included service" in response to customers demanding lower ticket prices. It was, "okay, we'll charge less for flights but remove other services. If you want them, there will be a supplementary charge." Pick your poison, it can't be both ways.

As I said, people seem to have love or hate feelings about SW. Their liberal policy of allowing credits and changes isn't enough to persuade its detractors from using them, me included .

If they don't show, it should be non-refundable. That would solve that portion. But if you change from one flight and go to another, the second flight has a passenger it didn't have. So how is that losing money? It's shifting money, it's not losing money.

You're thinking of the no-show term too literally. Overbooking also considers expected reservation changes.

What other meaning is there? And overbooking should NEVER exist. Theaters (good example chisue) can't do it, due to fire marshal issues, so why should a very limited space, FAA controlled, environment be any different?

You're back to the beginning? Done.

Did they know before boarding took place that they needed those "reserved" seats?

If so, announce to the pre-boarding gathering that you need to have four folks agree to stay off this flight and go later ... who's willing to do that?

Probably no one ... so you offer an incentive ... if still no takers, up the offer, until you get four to agree.

If already boarded, same announcement ...and increased incentives, until four agree.

Didn't someone say that this fellow had agreed to not go ... but then found no flight available that day, so boarded anyway ... which makes him the miscreant, in my view ... but, even so, no reason to treat him as they did.

And whatever other parts of his lifestyle there may be aren't part of this equation, in my view.

In the States, they have a Passenger Bill of Rights, I hear, and also in other countries ... but Canada has none, it appears ... (so reported by some who've been claiming such in the past few days ... and that it's time that we get one!!)!

Hey, Canadians ... look up your M. P.'s phone number, O.K.?

ole joyful ... who doesn't fly often

What other meaning is there?

Done? Are you putting your foot down? HA!

ETA: Literal meaning (M-W.com)

Definition of overbook

1. transitive verb
2. : to issue reservations for (as an airplane flight) in excess of the space available
3. intransitive verb
4. : to issue reservations in excess of the space available

With which I agree. What other "kind" of meaning is there? I understand the difference between denotative and connotative. If that is what you mean, I'd like to hear what it is outside of its literal meaning.

Personally, after seeing the video of what happened on the plane, I hope the guy gets millions and I'm sure he will. How he was treated was insane! How can they just throw someone off a plane. If it had been me, I'm sure I would have been freaking out needing to be somewhere and being told to get off? WTH?!