There are the folks that post to nearly every thread, even if just to say 'atta boy' or LOL, they are the givers, they are caring folks. And the glue of the boards, those that make sure that fun happens, the playmakers, where would we be without them? There are people who seldom post to anyone else's threads, they are probably the takers in their daily lives as well, it's all about them. You have those that take the opposite road of nearly everyone else just to be the stand out. They are going to be different no matter what it takes. They are often on the verge of lecturing. And the self appointed caretakers and police...... That truly is an amazing set of assumptions! You put quite a positive spin on a simple "atta boy" or "LOL", while I think it is equally possible these types are shallow & schmoozers. NOT saying they ARE......... but you cannot tell ANYTHING about what kind of person a poster is based on such limited information. It must be terribly time consuming for you to keep track of (even in a most general way) the frequency of the atta boy/LOL posters, & harder still to keep a handle on the infrequent "taker" type posters, since due to the very nature of infrequency you have to read many threads. How do you do that? Keep a file on everyone? Oh, well there I go.... being oppositional & lecturing. LOL. There. How many more do I need to be a part of the "glue"? LOL (one more for good measure)

Thanks FrozeBudd. It is a big job moving everything outside for summer and back indoors for winter. My basement runneth over as I try to organize them into their cubby holes just to keep them alive. I still have about 20 extra large pots to move indoors before Monday (our first freeze). The plants get bigger, new plants come in faster than old ones check out, propagation makes things worse as space is limited, and I am another year older. UGH! This is from last December Confetti on left, Hugh McLaughlin on right. Not sure what is in the back. Amelia blooming, Cowardly Lion (striped rhizo), and it looks like Big Mac (glossy green) Helen Teupel (purple with silver edges) and some unknown silver curl. Flirty Girl (a seedling from Ozzie Johnson who is a member of our begonia club) Jack Black with a cluster of blooms My Special Angel (polka dot cane), Taconite (large dark green leaves), and U450 or U540 (seems like the tag was mislabeled) is the silver leaf with dark veins. rexes from Walmart or Lowe's (Exotic Angel nursery) Proud Mary various begonias I propagated for fun.

"Ignorant"? Moi? I'm thinking you may be the ignorant party in this discussion :-) These are only the first few articles that turn up with a Google search but there are dozens more out there. But then it appears that you do not believe what plant pathologists across the country have come to a pretty firm consensus about. ISU Extension Serivce: "Once a tree is diagnosed with Rhizosphaera needle cast, the management tactics aim to reduce the spread of the disease to healthy tissue. One common misunderstanding about this disease is that once needles become infected they cannot be “cured”. Once needles are infected they cannot be healed or cured and will eventually fall off of the tree. One option for management of this disease is to simply not plant susceptible trees. In situations where spruce is the tree of choice, try to avoid blue spruce and take a look at Norway spruce as an alternative." University of Minnesota extension publication: " Colorado blue spruce (Picea pungens) is highly susceptible and is commonly affected. Do not plant Colorado blue spruce (Picea pungens) or other spruce that are not well adapted to the environmental conditions in your area. Damage typically starts on the lower branches and moves up the tree. If the majority of needles are infected for 3 to 4 years in a row, the branch will die." NMSU extension publication: " Rhizosphaera needle cast, a fungus disease caused by Rhizosphaera kalkhoffii, is primarily a disease of blue spruce (Picea pungens) trees in New Mexico. Infected needles turn yellow in July and then reddish-purple in August. The needles eventually turn brown and fall off one or more branches. A severely affected tree will have many bare branches. Premature needle drop is the primary damage, causing the tree to become unsightly. Branches that defoliate for four or five years may die. The disease usually attacks the oldest needles on branches in the lower portion of the tree canopy first and progresses upward, giving the appearance of death from the bottom up and inside out. If left uncontrolled, the disease can eventually kill the tree. " Wisconsin Horticulture publication: " What is Rhizosphaera needle cast? Rhizosphaera needle cast is one of the most common fungal diseases of Colorado blue spruce. It can make Colorado blue spruce unsightly and unusable in many landscape settings. How do I avoid problems with Rhizosphaera needle cast in the future? The easiest way to avoid Rhizosphaera needle cast is to avoid planting Colorado blue spruce." Morton Arboretum: " Rhizosphaera needle cast is a common foliar disease of spruces and other conifers caused by the fungus Rhizosphaera kalkhoffii. Colorado blue spruce is particularly susceptible and can be severely damaged by this disease. Heavily infected trees can suffer severe needle loss and branches may die as they become defoliated. Trees are rarely killed by Rhizosphaera needle cast, but several years of attack will take its toll and only the current season needles may remain. This disease can be frustrating because severe defoliation can occur quite rapidly and without indication that the disease is even present." Penn Sate Extension publication: "Spruce often tend to lose lower branches and become unattractive with age, especially during periods of environmental stress, caused by drought and frequent rain. Recent wet weather years have been especially hard on spruce trees, as evidenced by the number of dying trees visible in local landscapes. A fungal disease affecting spruces is Rhizosphaera needlecast. Symptoms may first appear in mid- to late-summer as yellowing of the innermost needles on the middle to lower sections of the tree. These needles change from yellow, to brown, or purplish-brown and eventually fall off the tree. Because of susceptibility to this disease, less vulnerable conifers including concolor fir (Abies concolor), Oriental spruce (Picea orientalis), Serbian spruce (Picea omorika), and cultivars of Eastern red-cedar (Juniperus virginiana) should be used in preference to Colorado blue spruce." And from an arborist website: " Sprays control the disease but do not cure it. The goal of treatment is to protect each season’s new growth from re-infection."

Distance mentioned above may be too close for some plants, but not for plants in photos. CFL bulbs I use are 23W (equivalent to 100W incandescent), and few are higher. They are all daylight, 6500k and each is 1500lumens. I have different lights - LED bulbs and tubes, few T8 fluoros and also T5HO. Plants in photos are under 23W CFL bulbs. Most of my plants are that close, but they are well acclimatized to these lights. Many are new - I just changed couple that burned out. This is only my experience, and I have been using them like this for past 4 years. I had lights before, but plants were further away. Lights are on timers, on for 12hrs. Here is another shelve. Mostly haws and gasterias. LED tubes are 12W, 5000k, 1550 lumens. They are about 8" away. That distance seems to be good for them, but few Topsy Turvy echeverias have to be moved - they are etiolated: This Senecio haworthii is under same lights (haws and gasterias are visible on each side) but closer because it is taller plant. Distance is 3.5" from light source. Maybe it could be closer, seems to me that it could be more compact. But there is new growth where branches were decapitated: