Ancestry.com questions and other genealogy stuff

9 years ago

I'm going to access Ancestry.com at the library and am wondering how to look up someone's 1891 emigration from Austria to the U.S. I'd like to find out her maiden name. and thought it might be on the passenger list even though she was married at the time. Her husband came to America the year before, and they were married in Austria.

I'd also like to learn the cause of death of someone who died in NYC in 1917. I tried Ancestry at the library once last year and was pretty much clueless.

I'm also curious about what happened to a married couple who appeared in the 1910 and 1920 Censuses but disappeared after that. I know the woman died in 1939, but where were they for those 19 years? I guess it was possible to escape notice in the Census if you didn't answer the door . . . ?

Looking online at these old Census sheets, I'm realizing people won't be able to read them at some point since cursive writing is no longer taught in schools. I think that's such a bad idea, for several reasons.

I was working on this stuff yesterday, and got into a zone. Those of you who enjoy genealogy will relate, I'm sure. I'm not a skilled genealogist by any means, but following a trail can put me in an altered state. For a brief time it's almost like unearthing history--a very personal kind of history. It's also exciting.

Featured Answer

Lindsey_CA

9 years ago

I, too, couldn't find some people who were not on the 1910 Census, even though they were on the 1900 and 1920. These people were my great-grandparents, so I really wanted to find them. And it made no sense to me that they were on the 1900 and 1920, but not on the 1910 Census. I even read, line by line, every name on every page of every enumeration district for their city, but their names were nowhere to be found.

I finally looked at the City Directory for 1910. My great-grandfather was listed under an incorrectly spelled surname, but it was an incorrectly spelled name that "made sense." But, with the knowledge of the address, I then went back to the 1910 Census to find that address. I was stunned at what I saw. Their 5-character surname was shown as an 8-character name that even with the thickest, heaviest Italian accent would never sound anywhere near what was written on the Census. My great-grandmother's first name was written as a misspelled version of a nickname. But perhaps the worst part (to me) was that my great-grandparents at that time had three living children, but six children's names were listed, AND three other adults were also shown as living in the same house with them (all as in-laws of my great-grandfather). As it turns out those other adults and kids actually lived in the "rear house" on the lot and were totally unrelated to my great-grandparents. Rear-lot houses always had their own address (usually "1/2" added to the main house's number), and on the Census records they were supposed to be designated separately.

Many errors and things done incorrectly, but at least I had found them!

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Comments (23)

Lindsey_CA
9 years ago
I have been lucky with finding information on GenealogyBank.com and Newspapers.com. You can find obituaries as well as archived newspaper articles. Many years ago newspapers published a lot of personal-type "stuff" that can give great clues as to what was going on in someone's life.

Also, don't forget to look at state census records. Not all states took their own census (done between the federal census years), but state census records have been a great help to me for some ancestors.

For finding out a cause of death, in addition to the obituaries and newspaper articles, you can check the (Federal Census) Mortality Schedules.

I know exactly what you mean by getting into an altered state zone. Genealogy research is definitely addicting!
Alisande
Original Author
9 years ago
Thanks, Lindsey! I think I can get Newspapers.com for free at the library too. I'll report back!
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It is also interesting to see how paths have crossed between not only cousins but families. For instance, in the 1850-1870 census my 5thGG was living next to a Dibble family in Flint, MI. When I was growing up in Flint, MI our neighbors were Dibble! Last year I decided to research a branch of my family that had migrated to Battle Creek, MI. There was quite a bit of info on this family in the local library and I decided to bring the research forward and contact some of the remaining family members. Not sure if anyone remembers the movie "Bitter Harvest" directed by Ron Howard? It was about the horrible problem of PBB, a fire retardant, that was accidently mixed in with dairy cattle fed in MI. I remember seeing that movie in the early '80s and I've talked about it several times over the years and it has always stuck in my mind. Come to find out it was my cousin that discovered the contaminated feed and it was on his family dairy farm! It is odd that I referenced that movie so many times and I had a connection to it other then drinking the contaminated milk! I ran into some birth records in IL for the same surname as my GC. Of course my interest was peaked and I did his genealogy back to the early 1700s. There was tons of info on his family at the local library so it was not difficult at all. His 4thGGM was named ELIZABETH but used the nickname LIBBIE. My GC has a daughter, 3yo, named ELIZABETH and they call her LIBBIE. I asked him if he had named Libbie after his GGM and he said he had no idea about his family history. Oddly enough both used "IE" instead of "Y" in Libbie. This is not the first time I've seen this either. Actually, what I started my family history research was my Mother wanted a copy of her father's birth certificate and had tried to find it but was not sucessful. I remember thinking that this was something I could do for my Mom and set off to find the BC. I finally did track down the BC but before hand found many interesting documents like his WWI military record, school records and so on. Well, that is all I needed! For me doing my family history is finding out just a bit about how my ancestors lived and what decisions they made along the way. My most precious record is that of my 4th GGM who one an award for hand spun wool at the 1854 MI State Agriculture Fair. I do tons of needlework and do weave and this connection was absolutely a thrill for me to find!
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I think it depends on where your house is. There are some city directories (with addresses in some directories) online at Ancestry, but it is more geared to focusing on human history than on old house history. As noted above the best source of accurate ownership history data is usually in your county or city deed record repository. There may be some states where the info may not be publicly available (Texas?), but in all other areas, that's where the mother-lode of data is. Although it may seem very confusing to search, at least at first, there is generally a pretty comprehensible organization to the files and often the office staff will be willing to give you a quick course. In most offices they will not do the searches for you, just show you how to use the data-bases and old ledger systems. Most areas only have computerized records going back a few years or decades. Anything older than that has to be located by using the grantor/grantee indices, then the individual deeds looked up in the ancient files. (Suggestion: plan on it taking way more time than you expect and wear easily-washed old clothes since the old records are often very dusty, or affected with red leather rot.) There is a very good book on "chaining" titles (doing a house history in general). I am away from home, but I can look it up for you if you'd like. There are different deed index systems around the country, but the principles are the same. The grantOR is the party selling the property and the grantEE is the one buying it. Most deeds (esp. early ones) are stuffed to the gills with long, seemingly repetitive words and have hefty boiler-plate preambles and closes. You'll quickly learn to focus on the main points: who, what, where, when, and how much - paid and number of acres sold. The Grantor (seller) is always the party of the FIRST part and the Grantee (buyer) is always the party of the SECOND part. There can be more than one person in any of these roles. And there can be more than one individual deed when there is more than one person in either of these roles, but especially when there are multiple sellers who for various reasons couldn't (wouldn't?) be gotten together to sign a single document. Some sellers only hold a certain percentage of the whole interest (e.g. if two brothers inherited property per stirpes, or equal shares, then each could only convey a half-interest; multiple generational heirs sometimes have tiny and uneven fractions of interest to convey.) When that happens it's not uncommon to find multiple partial deeds filed over long periods, many executed in far away places. There's another useful stream of info relating to any mortgages on the property, who gave them (generally the buyer, but could be someone who already owned the property, like the common HELOC of today) and who took them, i.e. the lender. (Don't be confused by the modern concept that you "get" a mortgage from a bank. It's always been, and still is, true that though the bank gives you the money, what is really happening in that case is that you really are giving/granting the bank an interest in the title of what you own in exchange for that money. That's why the borrower is the grantor in mortage matters. See also: Great Mortgage Meltdown 2009-2010.) That can be confusing because in the case of a purchase money mortgage the grantor of the mortgage is the buyer who is simultaneously the grantee in the deed transaction. Confused yet? Well, think about when the transaction involves a buyer and seller who are also entering into a loan agreement to cover the purchase price. In that case the "grantor" and "grantee" roles are both doubled, and reversed. You asked about the census records: in most cases they are not very searchable by address, which often is just a secondary census data category, and often in older areas the street or place names will have changed over time, rendering the search moot anyway. It may be better in well-developed cities with tighter control of space, but in rural or thinly settled areas addresses, at least as we use them today, were much more fungible. And many rural areas -like mine for instance in upstate NY - only got "real" street numbers as recently in the late 1990s when the 911 address systems came into vogue. Before that whatever address this farm may have had was geographical (west side of such and such road, beyond the old XXX place) or the rural delivery route (not street) box number. All that being said, I do use Ancestry quite a bit in my long-running research project on the farms in my town. But only to expand (or resolve confusing ownership history) by sussing out who the named buyers and sellers were - and with what relationship to each other, if any, - after I've pulled those names from the county deed (or probate) records. And there, census data (especially after the mid 1800's when realtionships began to be noted within households) is invaluable. Unfortunately there is a big gap in 1890, because those census documents were mostly destroyed for that year. Some states also did a census, especially in rural or farm areas, on fith year intervals, so that may be another source, usually held within the state records. I'd start with a simple buyer to seller search, working backward. If you get balked, remember each seller was also, once, a buyer. So if you can't find a particular person in one role, then look for him or her in the other role. This is helped by the fact that most deed books are arranged by role, in addition to name and/or period of time. This holds true unless a buyer later died owning the property, then the heirs would be sellers. That's generally where things get a bit sticky. Who were the heirs and what names did they, or their agents, use in the transaction as conveyors, grantors or sellers? Ancestry can help at this point by helping you figure out the decendents' names. And you can also get some of that info by checking the probate files where wills and estate dispositions are recorded. In many states you are entitled to see those records even if you're not an heir. I used to be shy about even asking that, but the clerks never batted an eye when I finally gathered my courage up to ask. In some areas, really old deed records have been transferred to the local historical society, which in my experience makes them somewhat less accessible than city or county clerks' offices which are open during most busines hours. Occasionally you'll find a deed room that's open in the evening, and often those hours are full of people doing exactly what you are. If you ask for help at those times, you'll almost certainly get a good steer to where (and how) to search. After you have some names, then I would take up Ancestry's try it for free for 30 days offer and see if you think it will be useful. For deed chain searching here in the US, you most likely won't need to purchase the expanded European records, so you can skip that extra fee, for now. Fair warning: this stuff is really addictive. If you get hooked, you'll have to give up your other hobbies. One other thing: if you find that purchase price info is not noted, that's not uncommon. Sometimes the deeds are coy about it. Look for tax stamp data on those deeds. Taxes were often based on the amount of money being paid. If that's the case, and you can find the tax rate, then you can figure back to purchase price. Have fun, and good luck!
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Oh, I am using the classic view now but it won't be a choice before long. I did look at the New and Improved site. Twice. Hated everything about it. Ancestry doesn't care what the user thinks. When they did other stupid things and we gave our 2¢ they just plowed ahead and did what they wanted, not what we wanted. The comments idea is just to pacify us. Which it doesn't because we all know their mind is already made up. Money. It's all about the money. I'd like to know how much they spent making us so unhappy this time. It's making it very easy to break the ancestry.com habit, though. Considering what I had tentatively budgeted for next year, I can do something else really nice for myself and it won't involve ancestry.com. I'm getting everything off of there now. I'm so sorry I started the ancestry DNA but I will abandon it there and concentrate on Gedmatch. I found that the DNA matches at ancestry are the same people I have already made contact with and if I want to look harder, just search for family trees. My advice is save your money on the DNA kits. You will find the same people using the family tree search there. Use the connect feature or the contact button. What is really worrisome is them collecting health information. Now, that is scary! They won't implement any way for us to work with our DNA data but they'll gladly write down every health problem we have. They aren't going to do anything that will help us; they're going to sell the information to 3rd parties.
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User
9 years ago
I don't know anything about ships lists.

You could send an email to the library in the area where the person died and request an obituary lookup. That may tell you the cause of death. You can also pay and request a death certificate, but there are often restrictions on who can request a death certificate. You may not qualify. I'm not sure about NYC, but other states often don't have good death records from those years.

For census records, some people just didn't get recorded some years. It's frustrating. Did these people have children or brothers or sister? You may be able to track them through other relatives. Someone else with an Ancestry tree may have more info. If the man was still alive in 1940, you may have some luck... at least for the previous five years. The 1940 census also recorded where people were in 1935.
User
9 years ago
Here is a place that has free access to old newspapers. http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/

I've found old newspapers for some states and then it's totally lacking in other areas. I did find some things that I didn't find on newspapers.com. The search engine isn't real user friendly, but it works.
Rusty
9 years ago
Another way to find immigration records: http://libertyellisfoundation.org/about-passenger-search

I don't know if the ships' manifests include maiden names or not, it's been several years since I looked at any of them. You should be able to find the ships they came on. Maybe even pictures of the ship.

I know what you mean by "altered state"! ! I'm not a skilled genealogist, either, but I sure can get 'lost' in it!

Good luck!

Rusty
seniorgal
9 years ago
Genealogy requires quite a bit of imagination and lots of guesses but usually when you actually find what you are looking for it makes sense. When I was working on it in the 1980's there was nowhere near the information available currently. I found that old newspapers were a great source of information. I read many, many of them on microfilm. I was searching for information from small, rural towns so they were a godsend to me. Obituaries gave relationships and news items gave me a feel for the actual lives of those relatives. I found state historical societies had microfilmed newspapers from even the very small towns. Most counties, too, have Historical societies which have tons of local information. Don't forget courthouses.

I don't know where you live, but I found a wonderful genealogy library in Fort Wayne, Indiana. They even had old city directories from St. Paul and Minneapolis, Minnesota which were the areas I was working on.
User
9 years ago
Rusty, that would only be a good resource if the ancestors came through Ellis Island. All of my ancestors who immigrated to the US (obviously, my Cherokee & Blackfoot & Sioux ancestors are excepted!) came here LONG before Ellis Island was even a thing.
Rusty
9 years ago
LOL, very true Imstillchloecat, but I was replying to Allisande's quest for info about 1891 immigrants. Now I realize that the records at Ellis Island start in 1892. My dad came here is the early 1900's, so I was able to get useful info from that site. Also found my maternal grandfather there.

Oh, well, maybe someone will find something they can use there.

Rusty
chisue
9 years ago
Yes to City Directories. Phone directories too -- if you're looking in a timeframe when most people had telephones; they'd have addresses as well. Are there voter registration records -- maybe by township?
Lindsey_CA
9 years ago
Maiden names will only be found on ship manifests if the woman was still known by that name. For example, Italian women are always and forever known by their maiden name even if they are married. If you're born Carmela Pagionetti, you will be known as Carmela Pagionetti your entire life. Your children will be given and known by the surname of their father. For many of the years (but not all), manifests would have a column for the name and address of the closest relative "in the country from whence you came," and also the name and address of the person who is their destination in the USA. So, Carmela Pagionetti might be shown with a destination of "Husband Giovanni Lucarini."

German women do take their husband's surname, but documents nearly always will reflect a German woman's maiden name. An example would be Gisela Schumacher, geb. Braun which tells you that Gisela Schumacher's maiden name is Braun. Even better for genealogy, if Gisela was married to someone with the surname Krause before she married Schumacher, but Krause died, her name will be shown as Gisela Schumacher, Witwe Krause, geb. Braun. "Witwe" is "widow" and "geb." is short for "geboren" which is "born." But, ship manifests do not seem to worry about including the maiden name for women, which is a shame.
Georgysmom
9 years ago
My friend, who has been doing genealogy for over 20 years (before computers) says her favorite site is FamilySearch.org. It's sponsored by LDS church, is free and very easy to manipulate the site. It will walk you through everything. She does not like Ancestry.com because she thinks it's expensive.
User
9 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
I found a lot of information at the familysearch.org site. Ancestry is expensive, but it has lots of pictures and stories. What has been nice for me is to be able to contact other people and share with them. Just last week I found out one of my relatives had a business partner in his moonshine business. Lol! You don't find that kind of information just anywhere. The same person who told me about the moonshine also showed her sister a picture I had. They identified the unknown person as a relative of theirs. I never would have figured that out. That picture is ninety years old. I have some newspaper articles and other 'lore' they didn't have so it was great.

Edited to fix link.
User
9 years ago
I know about my moonshiners through word of mouth and newspaper articles. Some will also arrest records. I haven't gone looking for those yet.
TulsaRose
9 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
adellabedella_usa I found a lot of information at the familkysearch.org site.

You might want to edit that link to read: familysearch.org.
Alisande
Original Author
9 years ago
Thank you all for the many responses! I
was out all yesterday, but didn’t make it to the library. I thought I'd get there today, but the weather is keeping me home.

Adellabedella, they had children,
and I was able to track the two sons. But the other five were all girls. Thanks
so much for the Chronicling America link. I used that a lot years ago, but had
lost the bookmark in a computer change. I love that site, even if I’m not
looking for anything specific. Those newspapers have numerous references to my
grandparents, opera singers who performed all over the country.

Rusty, it’s true that the Ellis
Island site starts a year later than what I was looking for, but it’s a great
site and I’m glad to know about it—thanks!

I discovered FamilySearch
recently, which is where I found the Census reports. I remember years ago not
many of these were available.

Lindsey, I'm always interested in the knowledge you share. I had no clue about Italian and German names.

Seniorgal, our local Historical Society has a nice genealogy section, but all my family came from NYC. I'm sure the city has excellent resources, but it's a little vast. (That must be an oxymoron.) lol I haven't lived there in years.

As some of you know, I’m a
volunteer gravestone photographer for FindAGrave. Yesterday I happened upon FAG
memorial pages for two of my children’s ancestors, and asked that management of
the pages be transferred to me. I was happy to send the links to my kids and
granddaughter. It’s funny that my 26-year-old granddaughter has a strong
interest in family history that I thought she wouldn’t develop until much later.

Thanks again!
Alisande
Original Author
9 years ago
I just came upon another newspaper site that I used to use. I'd forgotten about it (imagine that!)

http://fultonhistory.com/Fulton.html
User
9 years ago
You know parents and children's names including daughters. Make a tree on Ancestry and put all of the people and known dates on it. You have one or two census records so add them to the tree too. Usually, at some point, Ancestry will start giving you hints. Usually, other trees are included in the hints. I like to pull up other people's trees and see what they have. You can't trust everything you see because some people have significant errors in their trees and other people copy them without doing any research.

Make sure and click on each child including the daughters and fill in what you can. You may get some hints for marriage records for them. From there, you may get married names or FindAGrave records. The FindAGrave records may be incorrect too. Sometimes they link you up to enough other family members that you can figure it out.
WalnutCreek Zone 7b/8a
9 years ago
There used to be a Genealogy forum here on Gardenweb. I can no longer find it. Does it not exist anymore? I am slowly getting back into doing some research.
Alisande
Original Author
9 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Thanks, Adella. My understanding is that I can make a tree on Ancestry only as a paid member, not via the library computer. Even if that's incorrect, I have to limit the time I spend there because I don't do well under fluorescent lights. They trigger ocular migraines for me. But it's interesting how Ancestry works. I hope to become more familiar with it.

WC, I know there was some discussion about forming a Genealogy Forum here, but I don't know how that worked out. I don't see one either.
WalnutCreek Zone 7b/8a
9 years ago
Alisande, I am positive there used to be a Genealogy forum on this site. I was very surprised when I looked for it and could no longer find it. We have so many people on the forums who do geneaology, you would think Houzz would add it.
User
9 years ago
No. No genealogy site at GW. You can have a free tree at ancestry. Mine is approaching 6,000 people. NOT my original plan! But for DNA matching I really need everyone. For immigrants before 1892 http://www.castlegarden.org/searcher.php I found some but not all. Worth a look. And yes, the best thing you can do (and I don't promote ancestry. I have issues with the company) is to put a tree on there and work from what you get. Often there is enough information in your hints that you can go elsewhere and find that document. And don't forget Google. You'd be amazed what google knows.
Lindsey_CA
9 years ago
There are a lot of misconceptions about what is, or isn't, or won't be available to folks on Ancestry. Some of what you can/can't do depends on whether or not you've ever had a paid account, but other stuff doesn't.

This page will let you know what Ancestry has to say about it.

Ancestry.com questions and other genealogy stuff

Lindsey_CA

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